Iran: A Bridge too Far?

[RDixon]

Iran shot down a predator drone a few days ago that had violated their airspace.
And some time this week or next will be completing the installation of 3000 centrifuges capable of producing weapons grade material.
These sites are buried so deep that even the new illegally developed bunker buster mini nukes may not be able to destroy them.
Russia just sent them 30 SAMs that are capable of shooting down stealth bombers.
China has been and continues to supply Iran with nuclear weapons and ICBM technology that they stole from the USA.

Meanwhile the Bush admin puffs out their banny rooster chests and postures and accomplishes nothing.

Sorry if you disagree but Iran has a right to defend their soverignty.
It is their home; not yours and not mine.
They decide what is best for them and how they want to live and as long as it does not effect me, I have no problem with that.

The question is: Why does the Bush admin? What is the real reasons for the saber rattling from the paper ducks?

[Drakonix]

The F14 aircraft were originally sold to Iran during the reign of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (the last Shah of Iran).

The Iranian order totaled 80 F14 Tomcats and 714 AIM54 Phoenix missiles. The supply included spare engines and spare parts for about 10 years.

It is believed only about 10 of the aircraft remain operational.

There have been some very serious and embarrassing failures of security regarding diversion of military parts sold legitimately as surplus and subsequently diverted to Iranian agents.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Iran shot down a predator drone a few days ago that had violated their airspace.

This is a he said she said, The USA says it didn't happen and they are not missing a drone, so it is who ever you want to believe. I will believe the USA over Iran any day of the week.

Russia just sent them 30 SAMs that are capable of shooting down stealth bombers.

Those SAMs sent have An attack radius of 12 miles, they are used for protection against an attack. I am not to concerned about those, the USA is also sending more patriot missiles to the area.

China has been and continues to supply Iran with nuclear weapons and ICBM technology that they stole from the USA.

I would question that, I know in around 2003 Iran did import uranium from China, and Iran's Nuclear Program was started by the USA in the 50's under the Atoms for Peace program, the plan was to have 23 nuclear power stations across the country built together with the USA by the year 2000. Every thing changed in 1979.

Meanwhile the Bush admin puffs out their banny rooster chests and postures and accomplishes nothing.

Sorry if you disagree but Iran has a right to defend their soverignty.
It is their home; not yours and not mine.
They decide what is best for them and how they want to live and as long as it does not effect me, I have no problem with that.

The question is: Why does the Bush admin? What is the real reasons for the saber rattling from the paper ducks?

Do you really need nuclear weapons to protect your sovereignty? This is where that whole We Want To Wipe A Country Off The Map statement President Tom made comes in to play. Backed by the fact Iran is supplying insurgents in Iraq with weapons.

As for the F-14’s, not to concerned about them, the technology of these aircrafts Iran has are very limited, it just seems odd they would put parts up for sale when really the only people who would want them right now are the enemy.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Sorry if you disagree but Iran has a right to defend their soverignty.
It is their home; not yours and not mine.
They decide what is best for them and how they want to live and as long as it does not effect me, I have no problem with that.

The question of the day is not about Iran's sovereignty, it's about the threat they pose to the rest of the world. That threat has not manifest itself just yet, but in addition to the defensive weapons you've listed, they've also bought offensive weapons from Russia as Multi's story at the top of this thread explains. Their nukes will also be offensive weapons. Iran's posturing and saber rattling is much too direct to be ignored. Does Iran's sovereignty give them the right to send terrorists into Iraq, or to fire ICBM's at their neighbors? The Arab League is nervous, Israel has already been threatened, and we're just supposed to stand by and watch?

We all really hope they decide that peace is what's best for them, but our hope will not factor into their decision at all. Their leaders are at least as stubborn and hawkish as ours which means they will start a war sooner or later. And it will affect you, believe it or not; world wars tend to effect everyone.

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Their leaders are at least as stubborn and hawkish as ours which means they will start a war sooner or later. And it will affect you, believe it or not; world wars tend to effect everyone.

it's more plausible that Iran's leaders are not as stupid as our leaders and are not going to start a war they cannot possibly win. why would they?

[albed]

Because they think the U.S. government is being taken over by selfish cowards who won't lift a finger to help other people live in freedom.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by theknife

it's more plausible that Iran's leaders are not as stupid as our leaders and are not going to start a war they cannot possibly win. why would they?

In their minds the Iranian Revolution of 1979 continues to this day. That many of them call it the Muslim Revolution is telling: they think their Shi'a version of Islam will one day be the only version in existence and that it will spread to all corners of the world. To achieve that ambition they must first eliminate Sunni Islam by killing or subjugating all of its Arab adherents. They've wanted to do it for centuries, and the sectarian violence in Iraq is proof. For now they're content to fight their little jihad by covertly sending soldiers and materiel (read: terrorists and IED's) over their border to Iraq and Syria, and from there on to Lebanon and Israel. The point is they have already started a war they cannot possibly win, at least not the way they're fighting it now, and once they realize it their efforts will escalate.

You can call it stupid, but for them carrying out God's will is not an intellectual choice.

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Mazer

You can call it stupid, but for them carrying out God's will is not an intellectual choice.

tell me about it.

President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml

[RDixon]

Consider this statement from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert: "The time is approaching when Israel and the world community will have to decide whether to take military action against Iran." Or Israeli Brigadier General Oded Tira who said that because "President Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran," Israel and its supporters "must lobby the Democratic Party and U.S. newspaper editors" to demand such an attack. If the Americans do not take military action against Iran, General Tira promised, "we'll do it ourselves."

Now ask yourself this question: Are your views on Iran influenced by all this "lobbying"?

[Sinner]

it's more plausible that Iran's leaders are not as stupid as our leaders and are not going to start a war they cannot possibly win. why would they?

Iran’s leaders are not stupid at all, they are very smart. They know what they are doing, they know how to use the media to their advantage. They know Americans are peaceful people and as shown in this thread do not want to be brought into a war with Iran. Now if Iran attacked Americans on American soil it would be over for them but it seems Americans are not to worried about the fact they are directly involved in the killing of American soldiers in Iraq. Some would rather blame their own leaders. A good part of the country would rather ignore what goes on over seas, again this is what America did before Pearl Harbor and what America did with bin Laden and the Taliban before 9/11. To an Extremist like President Tom when you come to the table to talk, it is a sign of weakness, oh they will listen to you, shake your hand and agree with erery thing you are saying. Once you leave they are making plans to kill you.

No one wants a War with Iran, and the situation is very volatile. What can or should be done? If Israel or the USA or both attack Iran it may set off a firestorm, not just in the Middle East, remember the riots in Paris and the UK? Times that by ten. Hopefully cooler heads prevail, like the Cuban missile crisis did. America can not Cut & Run from Iraq, that is the key, if America does you can move that doomsday clock to 30 seconds to midnight.