Any wasted fbi guys here?

[RDixon]

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-5323904.html

[chefws]

Not I

[cheapprick]

Wait...do you mean high or just inappropriately used?

[theknife]

can't imagine nobody didn't see this coming ( whee - a triple negative!)..at least nobody from here, hopefully. but they make DC sound like it has some centralized aspects....i don't know DC too well, but who would be the "operator" of a hub in a DC network?

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by theknife

i don't know DC too well...

big sparking lighting rods the copyright cops can't keep their sweaty galvanic palms off of. the siren songs dc hubs whisper to electrically charged feds is, "arrest me, arrest me, arrest me."

and in spite of themselves every so often they manage to do just that. usually it's a couple of middle class kids operating on campus sharing books and tunes, but this time they've gone after some real desperadoes - the ones probably still back home living with mom and dad. thank god the war on terror is so under control ashcroft can free his resources to crack down on true teen anarchy, but why keep the good news a secret? oh wait. i get it. it's a good faith effort. the mp/riaa bush campaign checks slated to crush democracy come with strings attached. this will show edgar bronfman, rupert murdoch and the rest of the foreign media moguls it's money well spent.

a dozen u.s. citizens down!

all hail Big Media!

they only have 100 million americans to go.

- js.

[multi]

a dozen u.s. citizens down!

744 new ones..
(i think thats closer to a gross)

http://p2pnet.net/story/2259

^p2pnets story on this..

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by multi

744 new ones..
(i think thats closer to a gross)

that's the civil suits, the dc hub warrants were just a handfull.

- js.

[multi]

ah
these DC operaters are getting criminal charges

BTW gross is only 144 =12 dozen

[RDixon]

No charges were announced, but an FBI affidavit portrays a 46-year-old San Antonio man as the central figure running a network of computer hubs to exchange pirated movies, music and software among a circle of trusted patrons.

An FBI agent used two covert computers to gain access to something called the Underground Network. It took the agent months to establish credentials as a trusted hacker by uploading and downloading copies of pirated materials.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/te...rackdown_x.htm

[pod]

[cheapprick]

It took the agent months to establish credentials as a trusted hacker by uploading and downloading copies of pirated materials.

[theknife]

interesting read from one of the people affected:

Hello everyone. As many now may know, the FBI and DoJ have executed search warrants on some of us, and questioned others (myself included). It's unfortunate they cannot get their facts straight before spouting off to the press. (Same goes for the press... they really should be checking their facts.)

To those who have no clue what I'm talking about, try Google News. (search for: underground network p2p)

If you read an article, and came here looking for answers or are curious as to what's going on, I'm about to fill you in. After all, I'm the "Answer Man". (Was odd to hear the FBI refer to me by that title as too.)

There have been many misconceptions in the handful of articles I've read. They all claim to be the same article by Curt Anderson of the Associated Press. Funny how I've read 30 different versions of the same article, written by the same person. It's difficult to tell how many facts were blatently wrong to begin with, but it's downright upsetting how many are currently wrong. I could never begin to explain all the misconstuded facts, as I haven't read them all.

However, I would like to clear up a few "facts" I've read about a place I've been involved in for some time. That place: The Underground Network.

First off, I've yet to figure out the "100 Gigabyte minimum requirement" claim for joining the network. What is it to join the network anyway? What is the network? These are the questions so many have wrong. If you're talking about the forums... which is the only thing there IS to join in any sense, then there are no requirements. Well, no requirements past having access to a computer, the Internet, and an email account, plus being older then 13 (or lying that you are). It's the standard "requirements" of any other vB forum. There are thousands of them out there. Check Google.

So that must not be what they are talking about when they say "members are required to share 100gb of copyrighted material to join" (quoting a story posted to the Register.co.uk). Excuse me? If they are talking about the hubs, well, you don't "join the network" to login to a hub. You connect to one of the hubs with our name in it. That's really all there is to it. We are just a collection of people with similar interests (read the forums to learn some of them) who also help eachother out in the hubs. To join a hub (like all other 13,000+ Direct Connect hubs out there, besides ours), you need a preset "minshare" that the hub decides. That is, files you are willing to share with other users in that hub. We do NOT police these files beyond the stuff we KNOW is illegal (underage porn, beastality, etc). Beyond that we are very clear with one point: THE USER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SHARE!

If you connect to one of the hubs with our name on it and are sharing files you shouldn't, then YOU made a boo-boo. Not us. The media and the FBI seem to have missed this point. I've seen write-ups about how much info "is stored on" or "passes through hubs". They claim "up to 60,000 movies and 18 million songs a day" (again, quoting an article). EXCUSE me? No... the hubs don't hold a SINGLE byte of digital information. They don't even transfer any of it from user to user in fact. Did anyone bother to do the research? They didn't call the protocol and application "Direct Connect" because it sounded pretty. Once you are in the hub as a USER (not a member - nothing to join), you DIRECTLY CONNECT to the other users in the hub. Not too complicated... yet the FBI "infiltrated and investigated for 3 months" and they still have the facts wrong. John Ashcroft has some explaining to do. It's a scary world we live in if our own government gathers and uses their facts this way.

Oh there is so much else. Yes, users are required to share to connect to the hub. It can be a FREE open source (non-copyrighted) Linux operating system downloaded from http://www.LinuxISO.org. It could be programs YOU wrote that you want to distribute. It could be a song YOU recorded to MP3 that you want the world to hear. That's up to you. That's the USER'S responsibility. We do not condone or encourage piracy of any form. Unfortunately this fact also escaped the powers that be. A 'hub' is simply a meeting place for people to come to and have fun, chat, and share what THE USER decides they want to ( and is responsible for). The hub operator DOES NOT in ANY way share or distrubute ANY material, copyrighted or otherwise.

Browse around the forums. You will see what we do. We chat with each other on current events. We help each other with hardware or software troubles. We joke around and have fun. We provide a shoulder to cry on if you had a bad day. We share knowledge and information, just like every other forum on the planet. We don't ask, suggest, or force you to share illegal files or spread copyright material ourselves. (In fact, frequently we will remind people that it's not welcome on our forums. Once again, browse around and see for yourself.) Those "facts" are simply fabrication of the press, or worse, the FBI/DoJ.

I'll repeat what I told the special agent this morning when he came knocking:

You guys are on a wild goose chase. You're going after the wrong people in this scenario. Instead of the administrators and hub owners, you need to be worrying about the USERS that are sharing 100+ GBs of these files the FBI claimed they downloaded. The hub owner didn't push that file on you. YOU requested it, then DIRECTLY CONNECTED to the other user to download it. The hubs simply provide a meeting place for people with like interests. You can chat, get help, or share files. What you do is up to YOU.

The "organization" and "admins" of the network are also misunderstood.

We are not some massive group plotting against anyone. It's just everyday people with some free time that have tried to help out others when they could. Look at my posts, for example, and you'll see what I mean. I was made an "administrator of the network" simply because I have computer knowledge and could help users/"members" when necessary.

I like to help - it's what makes me tick. That isn't a crime. Each person does their own thing. Some help keep the forums running well. Some help keep the website up. Others help the hub owners with their computer problems. No one is a "ring leader". No one organizes any "warez" rings or checks the non-existant "minimum requirements of members". Misconstrued facts + false information = ignorance & innocent people having their hard earned personal property seized. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't be one of the ignorant ones - know the facts and realize the truth.

Hopefully this will clear up a few misconceptions and blatant lies about what the Underground Network is. I certainly hope the press will dig into the REAL facts, and actually tell the truth.

I also hope that the FBI/DoJ will realize their mistake(s) and not cause any more undue harm to us.

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6735

[JackSpratts]

So that must not be what they are talking about when they say "members are required to share 100gb of copyrighted material to join" (quoting a story posted to the Register.co.uk). Excuse me? If they are talking about the hubs, well, you don't "join the network" to login to a hub. You connect to one of the hubs with our name in it. That's really all there is to it. We are just a collection of people with similar interests (read the forums to learn some of them) who also help eachother out in the hubs. To join a hub (like all other 13,000+ Direct Connect hubs out there, besides ours), you need a preset "minshare" that the hub decides. That is, files you are willing to share with other users in that hub. We do NOT police these files beyond the stuff we KNOW is illegal (underage porn, beastality, etc). Beyond that we are very clear with one point: THE USER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SHARE!

well yes, technically. although i think he's being just a bit disingenuous. "i'm shocked, shocked, people who post here are file-sharing!" right. still, his argument is the one used by the ivy league dc hub operator last year, and it's equally valid. the problem he'll have is the same one the student faced: a severe shortage of funds necessary to work that defense up thru the various verdicts and inevitable appeals. it was a non-starter for the ivy-leaguer (a law student btw). he gave up and settled.

the doj is wrong, the riaa is wrong, and he'd probably beat them, if they didn't get him first on his own personal shares, assuming he had any (and really what's the point otherwise?). still, being right is no victory per-se, speaking in a strictly legal sense. this fight won't be won until people all over america enter their voting booths and decisively expel the fascists who persecute the very citizens supporting them.

- js.