'Bandwidth' and 'broadband' - P2P-Zone

TankGirl · 06-09-01, 02:50 PM

A member posted me privately and explained his/her confusion about the terms 'bandwidth' and 'broadband'. There had been some discussion about leeching and sharing on the Morpheus forum and it was mentioned that 56kers (which our member also is) don't want to share too many files because they don't have the bandwidth. The member wanted to know if sharing more songs means also using more bandwidth.

First of all, your bandwidth means simply the speed with which you can move data in (=downloading) and out (=uploading) of your computer. Upload and download speeds for the various connection types are often asymmetric. For example, a 56k modem gives you a download speed (=bandwidth) of 56.000 bits in a second while its upload speed is limited to 33.600 bits in a second. In kilobytes per second (kB/s) - which is the typical speed unit in filesharing clients - these figures correspond to 7 kB/s and 4 kB/s.

Broadband is a general term used for faster connections like cable and ADSL. Broadband connections are typically fixed, in other words their users are online all the time. The slower connections (like your 56k modem) are dial-ups that need to make phone call to the ISP to get connected to Internet.

So let us say your 56k modem gives you the mentioned 4 kB/s upstream bandwidth. This does not depend in any way on how many songs you share. The number of songs becomes relevant only when people start to share your upstream bandwidth. If there is only one uploader, he/she can upload at 4 kB/s. If there are two, each one gets his/her song at 2 kB/s, and so on. If you share a lot of good stuff, you are likely to get so many uploads that unless you limit their number, each uploader will get their stuff at ridiculously low speed. Therefore 56kers should allow only 1 or max 2 concurrent uploads and not share too much to avoid hopeless queuing times.

- tg

nanook · 06-09-01, 03:42 PM

thanks, tg.

06-09-01, 04:45 PM

I still share with my 56K modem and some people still download from me too. For some reason people chose the popular songs that could easily be found on broadband computers, but oh well. My biggest problem is that an upload will crap out after a while and uploads are rarely finished, especially while I'm downloading at the same time. That was until I started using WinMX. It's bandwidth throttle actually keeps connections alive longer. I watch the bandwidth graph with the throttle off and the upload speed fluctuates wildly and enevitably hits zero and stays there. With the limit set to 2250 kbps the graph levels off and actualy maintains a higher average throughput than an unthrottled upload. The same goes for downloads too. On unstable connections the speed changes constantly, but if I set the throttle a little lower than maximum the speed remains pretty constant. Suffice it to say that the throttle makes sharing practical for 56K'ers like myself.

It gave me an idea for a full-time internet throttle that would screen every file transfer (kinda like a firewall does) and allot a certain ammount of bandwidth to each. It would separate different kinds of data and put them in order before it gets sent to the internet. This would keep different data streams from interfering with each other. It would keep compressed file transfers from slowing down uncompressed file transfers since most modems use compression whenever they can (text files for example usually transfer at 12 KB/s on a 56K modem because it compresses them before sending them).

TankGirl · 06-09-01, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanook
thanks, tg.

You're welcome Nanook, and nice to see you around!

And thanks Mazer for your informative post on WinMX. I agree: the bandwidth and queue controls of WinMX make it a much better client for a 56ker than for example Morpheus which currently has only a limiter for max concurrent uploads. Without effective bandwidth control a 56ker is in trouble when one or more broadband uploaders try to suck off all of its available upload bandwidth in Morpheus.

- tg

nanook · 06-09-01, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mazer
I still share with my 56K modem and some people still download from me too. For some reason people chose the popular songs that could easily be found on broadband computers, but oh well. My biggest problem is that an upload will crap out after a while and uploads are rarely finished, especially while I'm downloading at the same time. That was until I started using WinMX. It's bandwidth throttle actually keeps connections alive longer. I watch the bandwidth graph with the throttle off and the upload speed fluctuates wildly and enevitably hits zero and stays there. With the limit set to 2250 kbps the graph levels off and actualy maintains a higher average throughput than an unthrottled upload. The same goes for downloads too. On unstable connections the speed changes constantly, but if I set the throttle a little lower than maximum the speed remains pretty constant. Suffice it to say that the throttle makes sharing practical for 56K'ers like myself.

It gave me an idea for a full-time internet throttle that would screen every file transfer (kinda like a firewall does) and allot a certain ammount of bandwidth to each. It would separate different kinds of data and put them in order before it gets sent to the internet. This would keep different data streams from interfering with each other. It would keep compressed file transfers from slowing down uncompressed file transfers since most modems use compression whenever they can (text files for example usually transfer at 12 KB/s on a 56K modem because it compresses them before sending them).

___________________________________________________
very interesting Mazer.....i too watch as most files dwindle away and questioned before if there was anything i could do to save these uploads while maintaining room for my download.

this seems to answer my question, but how do you set these up in winmx? or is this something you do with the settings on your computer?

TankGirl · 06-09-01, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanook
this seems to answer my question, but how do you set these up in winmx? or is this something you do with the settings on your computer?

You'll find all the needed controls behind the "Bandwith..." and "Queuing..." buttons on the Transfers page.

- tg

nanook · 06-09-01, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TankGirl

You'll find all the needed controls behind the "Bandwith..." and "Queuing..." buttons on the Transfers page.

- tg

yes, i've fiddled with them.....but what is the best? 250?
i always download one song at a time.

and queue one at a time.

the best i can do for the both of us.

TankGirl · 06-09-01, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanook

yes, i've fiddled with them.....but what is the best? 250?
i always download one song at a time.

and queue one at a time.

the best i can do for the both of us.

Try limiting your upload bandwidth to 3000 bytes per second. This corresponds to 24.000 bits per second (1 byte = 8 bits), which leaves about third of your 33.600 bit/sec upload bandwidth for your own needs. If your downloads still are impacted by the uploads, go down from 3000 until you are happy with the results.

Max one download and max one upload sound good settings.

- tg

06-09-01, 06:58 PM

Good job TankGirl

Of equal importance in the issue of file sharing on the internet is the phenomena of upload clogging. This happens when your uploads, those files leaving your computer and going out to the internet, reach speeds that approach your ISP provided limits. The result becomes an inability to continue your downloads and your filesharing effectively stops. It usually leads to an actual disconnection.

When you download a file, your pc needs to send info BACK to the place the file's coming from to tell it that everything's ok and to keep the file coming. I call it "error correction backwash" and it happens with every download. Without it, no downlaod can continue. So, if you allow your uploaders to take all your bandwidth, you won't have any left over for your own downloads! It becomes critical then to set your upload bandwidth limit to well under what your ISP has provided.

Here are some guidelines - you should set it to less than the following if you have:

Dial up < 32 or half your modem speed if less than 56k.

ADSL <100.

Cable 30% below your system upload speed or 60% below if your area experiences frequent speed drops due to line sharing.

Here's how to find the speed settings for some popular file sharing apps:

In Morpheus go to: Tools | Options | Advanced. Click up/down arrows in Window.

In WinMx go to: Bandwidth and multiply the above figures X 100. Enter in Window.

In Bearshare go to: Uploads, Check "Kbps limit" & enter figure in window.

In Gnucleus go to : Edit | Prefrences | Bandwidth.

In instances where the program does not allow you to pick a specific limit, choose the next lowest.

If you follow this advice when starting out, you'll find you'll have less disconnects and more files transfered both outbound and inbound. As you become more experienced and comfortable with your particular system these guidelines may become more flexible.

- js.

nanook · 06-09-01, 07:12 PM

ok, i understand, but what do the numbers within winmx mean...
50,100,200,250(default), 300 etc.?
are they representative of 500, 1000, 2000....etc?

and is the default of 250 a good number for me? 56 k

06-09-01, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nanook
is the default of 250 a good number for me? 56 k

it's a setting designed to squeeze out the last ounce of performance for highspeed users. you can leave it where it is for now since you're on dial-up. remember also to keep your files shared at under 1000 until you install a faster line.

- js.

nanook · 06-09-01, 07:27 PM

thanks jack and tg.

you guys ROCK!

on to downloading.

06-09-01, 07:31 PM

groovy girl. have fun!

- js.

(make sure your file-type endings are engaged and you LOOK at them BEFORE you click 'em after you d/l).

06-09-01, 02:50 PM	#1
TankGirl Madame Comrade Join Date: May 2000 Location: Area 25 Posts: 5,587	'Bandwidth' and 'broadband' A member posted me privately and explained his/her confusion about the terms 'bandwidth' and 'broadband'. There had been some discussion about leeching and sharing on the Morpheus forum and it was mentioned that 56kers (which our member also is) don't want to share too many files because they don't have the bandwidth. The member wanted to know if sharing more songs means also using more bandwidth. First of all, your bandwidth means simply the speed with which you can move data in (=downloading) and out (=uploading) of your computer. Upload and download speeds for the various connection types are often asymmetric. For example, a 56k modem gives you a download speed (=bandwidth) of 56.000 bits in a second while its upload speed is limited to 33.600 bits in a second. In kilobytes per second (kB/s) - which is the typical speed unit in filesharing clients - these figures correspond to 7 kB/s and 4 kB/s. Broadband is a general term used for faster connections like cable and ADSL. Broadband connections are typically fixed, in other words their users are online all the time. The slower connections (like your 56k modem) are dial-ups that need to make phone call to the ISP to get connected to Internet. So let us say your 56k modem gives you the mentioned 4 kB/s upstream bandwidth. This does not depend in any way on how many songs you share. The number of songs becomes relevant only when people start to share your upstream bandwidth. If there is only one uploader, he/she can upload at 4 kB/s. If there are two, each one gets his/her song at 2 kB/s, and so on. If you share a lot of good stuff, you are likely to get so many uploads that unless you limit their number, each uploader will get their stuff at ridiculously low speed. Therefore 56kers should allow only 1 or max 2 concurrent uploads and not share too much to avoid hopeless queuing times. - tg

06-09-01, 03:42 PM	#2
nanook just one of the gang... Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 1,777	thanks, tg. __________________ "rock on, all"

06-09-01, 07:12 PM	#10
nanook just one of the gang... Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 1,777	ok, i understand, but what do the numbers within winmx mean... 50,100,200,250(default), 300 etc.? are they representative of 500, 1000, 2000....etc? and is the default of 250 a good number for me? 56 k __________________ "rock on, all"

06-09-01, 07:27 PM	#12
nanook just one of the gang... Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 1,777	thanks jack and tg. you guys ROCK! on to downloading. __________________ "rock on, all"

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06-09-01, 04:45 PM	#3
Mazer Posts: n/a	I still share with my 56K modem and some people still download from me too. For some reason people chose the popular songs that could easily be found on broadband computers, but oh well. My biggest problem is that an upload will crap out after a while and uploads are rarely finished, especially while I'm downloading at the same time. That was until I started using WinMX. It's bandwidth throttle actually keeps connections alive longer. I watch the bandwidth graph with the throttle off and the upload speed fluctuates wildly and enevitably hits zero and stays there. With the limit set to 2250 kbps the graph levels off and actualy maintains a higher average throughput than an unthrottled upload. The same goes for downloads too. On unstable connections the speed changes constantly, but if I set the throttle a little lower than maximum the speed remains pretty constant. Suffice it to say that the throttle makes sharing practical for 56K'ers like myself. It gave me an idea for a full-time internet throttle that would screen every file transfer (kinda like a firewall does) and allot a certain ammount of bandwidth to each. It would separate different kinds of data and put them in order before it gets sent to the internet. This would keep different data streams from interfering with each other. It would keep compressed file transfers from slowing down uncompressed file transfers since most modems use compression whenever they can (text files for example usually transfer at 12 KB/s on a 56K modem because it compresses them before sending them).

06-09-01, 06:58 PM	#9
JackSpratts Posts: n/a	Good job TankGirl Of equal importance in the issue of file sharing on the internet is the phenomena of upload clogging. This happens when your uploads, those files leaving your computer and going out to the internet, reach speeds that approach your ISP provided limits. The result becomes an inability to continue your downloads and your filesharing effectively stops. It usually leads to an actual disconnection. When you download a file, your pc needs to send info BACK to the place the file's coming from to tell it that everything's ok and to keep the file coming. I call it "error correction backwash" and it happens with every download. Without it, no downlaod can continue. So, if you allow your uploaders to take all your bandwidth, you won't have any left over for your own downloads! It becomes critical then to set your upload bandwidth limit to well under what your ISP has provided. Here are some guidelines - you should set it to less than the following if you have: Dial up < 32 or half your modem speed if less than 56k. ADSL <100. Cable 30% below your system upload speed or 60% below if your area experiences frequent speed drops due to line sharing. Here's how to find the speed settings for some popular file sharing apps: In Morpheus go to: Tools \| Options \| Advanced. Click up/down arrows in Window. In WinMx go to: Bandwidth and multiply the above figures X 100. Enter in Window. In Bearshare go to: Uploads, Check "Kbps limit" & enter figure in window. In Gnucleus go to : Edit \| Prefrences \| Bandwidth. In instances where the program does not allow you to pick a specific limit, choose the next lowest. If you follow this advice when starting out, you'll find you'll have less disconnects and more files transfered both outbound and inbound. As you become more experienced and comfortable with your particular system these guidelines may become more flexible. - js.

06-09-01, 07:31 PM	#13
JackSpratts Posts: n/a	groovy girl. have fun! - js. (make sure your file-type endings are engaged and you LOOK at them BEFORE you click 'em after you d/l).