Iran: A Bridge too Far?

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by RDixon

it's not the 1930s and Iran is not even close in comparison to Germany. that argument not only doesn't fly, it sinks too.

Iran has done nothing to me or the USA and I do not believe they have plans to attack me or my country.

If they do attack us then we WILL make their country uninhabatible for a few thousand years.

Well then we will have to disagree, because if you really look at the situations, Iran is in somewhat the same situation Germany was in, in 1938. One difference is Hitler tried to keep is plans a secret and the only country willing to say Germany was a threat to the World was England, or I should say Churchill and a few of his party members. In Iran it is no secret, Iran is building nuclear weapons and has said they attend to wipe Israel off the map, oh and you do know they call America the Great Satan right? Yeah right, you have nothing to worry about. Why would some Muslim Extremist who considers the USA the Great Satan what to hurt Americans. Sure the bleeding hearts will say he is bluffing, but really how do you know he is bluffing, how can you take that chance? President Tom says one thing to the world like at the UN and then goes home and tells his people the opposite and threatens the world. Take a look at Iran, look at the cartoons they show their kids or their so called “Investigated Reports”, Iran broadcast one explaining how Coca-cola, the big America company invests billions of dollars into Israel so they can invade Iran and kill everyone. Of course it is absolutely ridiculous, put that is just the tip of the iceberg of what Iran is selling their citizens. Maybe it will take another 9/11 to get people to realize the scope of Iran and the Middle East, I think the next attack, WHEN it happens will be much bigger.

Whether they want to be in that position or not?

I don't like the way you live so I bust into your house, break all your stuff, and put you in a position to live the way I think you should. And leave a few of my weight lifting buddies living with you to make sure you don't revert to your old erroneous ways.
According to your way of thinking, I am with in my rights to do that and expect you to bake cakes for me in thanks.

Who are you talking about? Who didn’t want democracy? The insurgents? The Terrorist? The Dictators? The citizens?

I think one of those four did want democracy, guess which one.

The rest of your post is non-sense.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Sinner

Well then we will have to disagree, because if you really look at the situations, Iran is in somewhat the same situation Germany was in, in 1938.

Not even remotely close.


The truth is the same as it was with Iraq; Iran is not a threat to the USA.
The USA is NOT Israel.
If Iran nukes Israel; so what?
Israel then retaliates and the problem solves itself without costing me a dime or a trillion dollars.

If the Israeli people don't like that possible future then let them change it or avoid it or maybe even change their government which is leading them on the path to destruction.
Not my problem and I will not allow it to become my government's problem like they did with Iraq.

[Sinner]

So you would take the stance the USA took when Germany invaded Poland and France during the World War. It is miles away so who cares. Well it didn’t take long for America to get attacked did it? America showed weakness and paid for it. Iran does not need to attack the USA directly, there are thousands of people standing in line to harm the USA, whether it be a dirty bomb, release chemicals in major cities, fly planes into buildings, or even fill a truck up with diesel fuel and fertilizer. And Iran supports and will help any and all of them any way they can.

If Iran nukes Israel there is no question the USA, Britain, and other allies will be in a full scale war with Iran and their allies and because nukes were used the cost to you and your nation will far exceed what Iraq has cost. There is no way you can believe America would allow an Extremist like President Tom nuke any country, never mind Israel and America is joined at the hip with Israel like it or not. It already is your government's problem, again like it or not, you may choose to ignore it and vote for bleeding heart liberals, it will not change this fact.

Last month there was a Gulf Cooperation Council meeting which included six of the Arab states, they met in Saudi Arabia and did a lot of talking about the threats from Iran. It is a fact that Iran is providing material for support on attacks against American troops, One of the Arab leaders reached the conclusion that Iran has already drawn up plans to take over Iraq once the USA backs out. They also determined that Iran is increasingly putting a stranglehold on Lebanon, by funding Hezbollah, and on Syria, a country that is dependent on them for support. Iran wants the take over the Middle East. Egypt released a statement saying "We don't want nuclear arms in the area but we are obligated to defend ourselves...It is irrational that we sit and watch from the sidelines when we might be attacked at any moment."

Sounds like they want nukes too, sounds like there maybe another arms race. No way the USA stands by and allows this to happen, even if it just means they put more money into weapon development to stay ahead of the game. To win in Iraq the USA and the rest of the Middle East will have to get control of Iran by what ever means necessary, be that talks or be that war. I hope talks but really has that ever worked????

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Sinner

So you would take the stance the USA took when Germany invaded Poland and France during the World War.

Iran is not now nor ever was nor ever will be in any way comparable to 1930s Germany.
The only possible comparison between the world today and the world then would be the USA's unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq.
With one notable exception: Hitler and his war cabinet knew how to invade and occupy a foreign country; Bush and his inept crew didn't and still don't.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by RDixon

I don't like the way you live so I bust into your house, break all your stuff, and put you in a position to live the way I think you should. And leave a few of my weight lifting buddies living with you to make sure you don't revert to your old erroneous ways.
According to your way of thinking, I am with in my rights to do that and expect you to bake cakes for me in thanks.

If I happened to be a prisoner living under house arrest for a crime I didn't commit, like say the population of Iraq circa 2002, you would be doing the right thing.

Originally Posted by RDixon

The truth is the same as it was with Iraq; Iran is not a threat to the USA.
The USA is NOT Israel.
If Iran nukes Israel; so what?
Israel then retaliates and the problem solves itself without costing me a dime or a trillion dollars.

Sinner's analysis seems pretty close to me, but if it's money you're worried about then what you should focus on is Iran's effect on the oil markets and the oil markets' effect on gas prices and the overall economic situation here at home. If we can nullify those effects by finding alternative energy sources then that's what we should do, but that solution is still a few years off and Iran's threat is imminent. It absolutely sucks, but that's the situation today and we've gotta deal with it. You may not think that military action is necessary, and you're probably right, but you can't seriously believe that no action is necessary.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Mazer

If I happened to be a prisoner living under house arrest for a crime I didn't commit, like say the population of Iraq circa 2002, you would be doing the right thing.

I make the decision as to whether or not you are a prisoner in need of liberation; you get no say in it.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by RDixon

I make the decision as to whether or not you are a prisoner in need of liberation; you get no say in it.

That's a given; having no say is what being a prisoner is all about. Why state the obvious?

You don't ask a slave whether he thinks he is a slave, you ask him whether he wants to be free.

[Sinner]

There is one country out there in the world right now which still flies F-14 Tomcats, they bought them from the USA back in the 70’s. I am talking about Iran. The pentagon retired the American fleet and now they have a warehouse full of parts for these planes. Now I am no expert but would it not make sense to destroy all these parts? I would think so, unfortunately the pentagon disagrees and is having these parts transferred to an agency, which holds public surplus auctions, and these parts will be up for sale. I wonder, who on earth would want to buy them. Is it Joe Blow in Iowa who is building his own Tomcat to fly around the neighborhood or is it Iran with the whole Axis of Evil thing.

A Defense Department official, Fred Baillie, said his agency followed procedures.

"The fact that those individuals chose to violate the law and the fact that the customs people caught them really indicates that the process is working," said Baillie, the Defense Logistics Agency's executive director of distribution. "Customs is supposed to check all exports to make sure that all the appropriate certifications and licenses had been granted."

The Pentagon recently retired its Tomcats and is shipping tens of thousands of spare parts to its surplus office — the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service — where they could be sold in public auctions. Iran is the only other country flying F-14s.

Feel better? I don’t.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070116/...surplus_stings

[RDixon]

Iran shot down a predator drone a few days ago that had violated their airspace.
And some time this week or next will be completing the installation of 3000 centrifuges capable of producing weapons grade material.
These sites are buried so deep that even the new illegally developed bunker buster mini nukes may not be able to destroy them.
Russia just sent them 30 SAMs that are capable of shooting down stealth bombers.
China has been and continues to supply Iran with nuclear weapons and ICBM technology that they stole from the USA.

Meanwhile the Bush admin puffs out their banny rooster chests and postures and accomplishes nothing.

Sorry if you disagree but Iran has a right to defend their soverignty.
It is their home; not yours and not mine.
They decide what is best for them and how they want to live and as long as it does not effect me, I have no problem with that.

The question is: Why does the Bush admin? What is the real reasons for the saber rattling from the paper ducks?