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Old 16-02-04, 09:06 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
how the bush camp apologizes for lying.

- js.
oh so the "bush camp" put this pic out? i assume you have proof of that?

i know this may shock you but not every negative thing out of the pike runs across Gilespie's desk.
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Old 16-02-04, 09:18 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
how the bush camp apologises for lying.

- js.
Very true - people following the example of the politicos - reminds me of the classic Rumsfeld explainations for monumental bullshit...

"I misspoke"

Oh, well that's alright then... carry on.
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Old 16-02-04, 09:35 AM   #43
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oh sorry i forgot the Dems are paragons of truth and integrity (well as long as you throw out Clinton getting impeached for lying and having no integrity).

x 1,000,000
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Old 16-02-04, 11:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
oh so the "bush camp" put this pic out? i assume you have proof of that?

i know this may shock you but not every negative thing out of the pike runs across Gilespie's desk.
i was quoting you span. you and scooby brought the pics into the forum in an attempt to falsely discredit kerry by association. you are in the bush camp are you not (ok ok, i’m making an assumption here. now’s your chance to renounce him, lol)


Quote:
oh sorry i forgot the Dems are paragons of truth and integrity (well as long as you throw out Clinton getting impeached for lying and having no integrity).
“lying” about one’s sex life is irrelevant, and it’s nobody’s business unless i guess you’re in the taliban or some other religious fundamentalist group like the right wing apparently. still. we’re talking about kerry and bush, or are you guys still running against clinton? btw, he was aquitted.

exaggerating or lying about your own “take the easy way out” military career while lying about a true war hero in an attempt to smear him is in a whole different category don’t you think?

while sending 500 americans to their deaths by lying about the reasons to them, to congress and to the world is truly a contemptible act.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 11:50 AM   #45
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Originally posted by JackSpratts
the pic is fake eh? span's and scoob’s fonda association is a falsehood? why am i not surprised. again more lies from the right.

- js.
so you actually think that the association between kerry and fonda is a "falsehood" because one pic is a fake? all that shows is that you haven't researched kerry's history, or read any of the links that have been posted documenting his record.

in this thread you've expressed your admiration for kerry many times, you've even called him a "true, genuine hero", and the "real thing", yet you obviously know nothing about his history or what he stands for. if you did, you'd know that his association with fonda is a well documented fact.
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Old 16-02-04, 11:53 AM   #46
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scooby if we were outside and you said the sun was shining i'd look up to make sure.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 12:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
i was quoting you span. you and scooby brought the pics into the forum in an attempt to falsely discredit kerry by association. you are in the bush camp are you not (ok ok, i’m making an assumption here. now’s your chance to renounce him, lol)
again...there is one fake picture. the others are real, and believe me, more will surface before this is over. if you knew anything about kerry's history, you wouldn't be accusing anyone of attempting to falsely try to discredit kerry by association.

the kerry/fonda association is a part of history, you don't know your facts....read up.

Quote:
scooby if we were outside and you said the sun was shining i'd look up to make sure.
lol...that's cause you're a liberal...you wouldn't know the sun was shining, someone would have to tell you.
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Old 16-02-04, 12:45 PM   #48
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On Labor Day weekend 1970, Kerry - then a rising star with Vietnam Veteran Against the War - teamed up with Fonda as the two headlined an ugly anti-war in rally in Valley Forge, Pa., railing against U.S. policy in Southeast Asia from the back of the same flatbed truck.

The photo shows "Hanoi Jane" listening raptly as speakers denounced American soldiers for committing "genocide" in Vietnam and accusing the U.S. of "international racism."



----Six days after a photo surfaced showing Sen. John Kerry with anti-American activist Jane Fonda, the Democratic presidential front-runner ordered his campaign to drop their attacks on President Bush's National Guard service.

"I have suggested to some people who are my advocates, who have gone [to] that line of attack -- it's not one that I plan to do, so I've asked them not to," Kerry said at Sunday night's Democratic debate in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Kerry had sounded eager just twelve days earlier to focus on charges that Bush went AWOL from an Alabama Guard unit in 1972, telling the Boston Globe, "I think it's up to the president and the military to answer those questions."
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Old 16-02-04, 12:54 PM   #49
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Vietnam Veteran Exposes Kerry's 'Phony' Anti-war Testimony

More and more facts are surfacing about the untrue claims John Kerry made as an anti-war activist after returning as a hero from Vietnam.

"Unfortunately, Mr. Kerry came home to Massachusetts, the one state George McGovern carried in 1972. He joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and emceed the Winter Soldier Investigation (both financed by Jane Fonda)," Stephen Sherman, who was a first lieutenant with the U.S. Army Fifth Special Forces Group (Airborne) in Vietnam in 1967-68, writes in today's Wall Street Journal.

"Many veterans believe these protests led to more American deaths, and to the enslavement of the people on whose behalf the protests were ostensibly being undertaken. But being a take-charge kind of guy, Mr. Kerry became a leader in the VVAW and even testified before Congress on the findings of the Investigation, which he accepted at face value.



BUSH'S GUARD 'ACCUSER' ADMITS FAULTY MEMORY

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/17932.htm
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Old 16-02-04, 01:31 PM   #50
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sap smears

Quote:
Originally posted by Sinner
The photo shows "Hanoi Jane" listening raptly
no it doesn't sinner. the photo shows people against the war at an outdoor event, one of whom is actress jane fonda, two years before she toured vietnam.

“My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie. Any attempt to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands. And they're also saying this organization, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, was a Communist organization. This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic. So anyone who slams that organization and slams Kerry for being part of it is doing an injustice to veterans. How can you impugn, how can you even suggest, that anyone like Kerry or any of these veterans were not patriotic? He was a hero there.” – Jane Fonda

Quote:
BUSH'S GUARD 'ACCUSER' ADMITS FAULTY MEMORY
so the guy who "can’t remember seeing bush" in the guard is now a liar because it turns out he actually can’t remember seeing bush? you guys are really getting carried away now.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 01:42 PM   #51
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I look at Kerry and the subject of the Military and Defense...


Recently, GOP chairman Ed Gillespie in an address to the Republican National Committee ticked off vote after vote in which Kerry sought to cut the nation?s defense budget:


In 1991 Kerry voted to cut defense spending by two percent. Only 21 other Senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated.

In 1991, Kerry voted to cut over $3 billion from defense and shift the funds to social programs. Only 27 Senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.

In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats, alike, successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry voted against increased defense spending for a military pay raise.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number Of navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy?s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.

In 1995, Kerry voted to freeze defense spending for seven years, cutting over $34 billion from defense. Only 27 other senators voted with Kerry.

In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry?s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.

In 1996, Kerry voted yes on a fiscal 1996 budget resolution ? a defense freeze that would have frozen defense spending for the next seven years and transferred the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. The resolution was rejected 28-71.


PS, I wanted to edit part of my last post but King Gaz thinks I am a trouble maker and won't let me......
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Old 16-02-04, 02:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
“My reaction is that the American people have had it with the big lie. Any attempt to link Kerry to me and make him look bad with that connection is completely false. We were at a rally for veterans at the same time. I spoke, Donald Sutherland spoke, John Kerry spoke at the end. I don't even think we shook hands. And they're also saying this organization, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, was a Communist organization. This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic. So anyone who slams that organization and slams Kerry for being part of it is doing an injustice to veterans. How can you impugn, how can you even suggest, that anyone like Kerry or any of these veterans were not patriotic? He was a hero there.” – Jane Fonda
lol, now your quoting jane fonda? if you want to try to appear the least bit credible, you should really find a more reputable source than hanoi jane.



Hanoi Jane's Definition of "Hero"

"Fonda defended Kerry as a patriotic hero for protesting the war, not for what he did in the war, but for protesting the war. That's what made him a patriotic hero to her. Yet she says that he is being smeared by being linked to her. How can those two both go together?"

"Kerry came back from Vietnam, and testified before Congress about the atrocities that were committed. He accused the U.S. military of murdering 200,000 Vietnamese citizens a year.

Now, a question to Senator Kerry: Sir, if you knew that these atrocities were going on in Vietnam, why didn't you report them to your superiors at the time, instead of waiting until you got back to testify to Congress? And why did you save your medals while you told your buddies to throw theirs away? We all know that story."

"This has been gnawing at me for the longest time. He knows these alleged atrocities are going on and doesn't tell anybody at the time, just engages in normal military service. Then when he gets his medals and comes back is when he starts ripping everything. Why didn't he report it at the time where he could have done something to stop it?"

"He witnessed the atrocities, then he came home, testified before Congress, met Jane Fonda, and is proclaimed a hero by Jane Fonda. To me a hero would have done something to try to stop them, rather than let them go on, then come back and use them to make himself look bigger than he is. "

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...tor.guest.html
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Old 16-02-04, 03:10 PM   #53
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lol, now your quoting Rush Limbaugh? If you want to try to appear the least bit credible, you should really find a more reputable source than hydrocodone Rush.
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Old 16-02-04, 05:14 PM   #54
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About this photograph. The Viet Cong flag was added as a back drop to J.F. Kerry to symbolize the aid and comfort he gave Vietnam's "revolutionary Communists" with his high profile participation in Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) demonstrations.

As a key VVAW leader, organizer and spokesman, Kerry marched in demonstrations where there was a clear presence and "abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government."
Kerry was a vocal supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong (Vietnamese Communist) peace proposals at the Paris Peace Talks as conditions for a United States retreat from the Vietnam War.


This communist Vietnamese flag fits Kerry well.
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Old 16-02-04, 05:49 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
the photo shows people against the war at an outdoor event, one of whom is actress jane fonda, two years before she toured vietnam.
it was much more than merely an "outdoor event." it was the 1970 valley forge protest that turned kerry into an anti-war star.




Candidate Teamed Up With 'Hanoi' Jane Fonda

On Labor Day weekend 1970, Kerry - then a rising star with Vietnam Veteran Against the War - teamed up with Fonda as the two headlined an ugly anti-war in rally in Valley Forge, Pa., railing against U.S. policy in Southeast Asia from the back of the same flatbed truck.

The photo shows "Hanoi Jane" listening raptly as speakers denounced American soldiers for committing "genocide" in Vietnam and accusing the U.S. of "international racism."

Three rows behind 'Hanoi Jane" sits a man who bears a striking resemblance to the Democratic presidential front-runner.

According to Corbis Images, which owns the image, the photo was taken at the same 1970 Valley Forge protest that turned Sen. Kerry into an anti-war star.

Douglas Brinkley's biography "Tour of Duty" chronicles Kerry's exploits at Valley Forge, where he reportedly followed Fonda onto the back of that pick-up truck to deliver his own diatribe against the war in Vietnam.

"We are here because we above all others have earned the right to criticize the war on Southeast Asia," Kerry shouted into the microphone, as Fonda and the crowd cheered wildly.

"By the time [Kerry] hopped off that pick-up truck to thunderous applause," writes Brinkley, "he was the new leader of the VVAW by popular default."

The Massachusetts Democrat's speech also cemented his alliance with Fonda, and the two traveled to Detroit to organize a January 1971 event they called the "Winter Soldier Investigation."

At a Detroit motel, Kerry and Fonda assembled a myriad of disgruntled witnesses claiming to be Vietnam vets, each with his own story of American atrocities.

According to Jug Burkett, whose landmark Vietnam war history "Stolen Valor" chronicles some of Kerry's anti-war misadventures, Fonda played a key role at the Detroit event.

"There's no doubt that Jane Fonda financed the Winter Soldier hearings," Burkett told NewsMax on Monday.

He said that several of the witnesses who testified at the protest's "hearings" later turned out to be complete impostors.

The event prompted "Hanoi Jane" to "adopt" Kerry's group "as her leading cause," writes Brinkley. It was at Kerry's Winter Soldier protest that the anti-American actress met her future husband, Students for a Democratic Society radical Tom Hayden.

The next year Fonda was off to Hanoi, where she mounted an anti-aircraft battery and pretended to shoot down American pilots.

Of Kerry, Burkett told NewsMax, "Any Vietnam veteran who knows what Kerry did after he came home from Vietnam is definitely not a fan of John Kerry."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...9/134218.shtml
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Old 16-02-04, 07:51 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sinner
About this photograph.
cartoons sinner? wow, you're off the deep end now. (quick, somebody draw a swastika behind bush to prove he's a fascist! he supported the patriot act, "reportedly" drawn up by hitler and mussolini in paris in 1940.) "aid and comfort to the enemy"? you mean bush of course, he's the one who wouldn't fight them.



scoobs, i know the concept is difficult for you but try to digest this anyway:

your picture was taken BEFORE fonda went to vietnam. years before.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 08:41 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
scoobs, i know the concept is difficult for you but try to digest this anyway: your picture was taken BEFORE fonda went to vietnam. years before.
since you termed that picture simply an "outdoor event"...it is you who fails to grasp the concept. did you even read what happened at that protest? you shouldn't have even needed to read it. if you studied history..you would already know what happened.

and..the picture was taken one year before fonda went to hanoi.

Quote:
quick, somebody draw a swastika behind bush to prove he's a fascist! he supported the patriot act...
bush never marched against america under the communist flag.

kerry voted to approve the patriot act.
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Old 16-02-04, 09:06 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by scooobiedooobie
the picture was taken one year before fonda went to hanoi.
2 years scoob.

Quote:
Originally posted by scooobiedooobie


kerry voted to approve the patriot act.
but more importantly, the sunset provisions.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 09:17 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
this empty president who leads by manipulation and hides behind lies made to the very people he cynically claims allegiance.
Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
while sending 500 americans to their deaths by lying about the reasons to them, to congress and to the world is truly a contemptible act.
"Since Democrats often think that nobody remembers anything, or saves old news clippings, here's one from 1998 about the Donkey Frontrunner John Kerry...."

Kerry Rewind


WASHINGTON - Dec 16 – 1998 (AFP)

US forces in the Gulf could strike Iraq "in short order," Senator John Kerry told reporters Wednesday, adding that military action was "quite likely." The US military will "be able to take action in short order," he said after being briefed at the White House, adding "a day of reckoning with (Iraqi President) Saddam Hussein is inevitable." Kerry, who sits on the Senate foreign relations and select intelligence committees, added that it was time "to hold him accountable with the use of military force."

In a bid to deflect charges that President Bill Clinton's impeachment woes were driving US policy, Kerry said "Saddam Hussein is responsible for the coincidence, Saddam Hussein is responsible for the timing." "He has toyed with the United Nations, the United States and its allies and UNSCOM," the UN agency charged with dismantling Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, said Kerry. "Reasonable people, those who have been following (the evolving crisis) cannot question the legitimacy of this moment" he stressed, adding "this has nothing to do with impeachment."


Clinton Rewind

Here’s one more, from the “good thing we saved the newspaper article” file.

Bill Clinton in 1998 on Saddam Hussein and WMD. “"What if [Saddam] fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And someday, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use that arsenal."
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Old 16-02-04, 09:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
but more importantly, the sunset provisions.
Quote:
Back before he had to worry about competing with one Howard Brush Dean, Kerry was positively delighted by the Patriot Act. "It reflects," he said on the Senate floor, "an enormous amount of hard work by the members of the Senate Banking Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee. I congratulate them and thank them for that work."

While supportive of "sunset" provisions in the bill, Kerry pronounced himself "pleased at the compromise we have reached on the anti-terrorism legislation." These are not the words of a man about to help inaugurate an era of brown-shirt law enforcement.


Kerry vs. Kerry
Rich Lowry

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- John Kerry has surged into first place here, proving his oft-repeated contention that he is a "good closer." Kerry has long said that he is a great fighter. If he completes his miraculous comeback to win the Democratic nomination, he will indeed have the fight of his life on his hands -- against his own legislative record.

Kerry, of course, has struggled with his vote in 2002 to authorize the Iraq War. "We did not empower the president to do regime change," Kerry said of the resolution on "Meet the Press" last summer. Actually, the Kerry-supported resolution specifically cited regime change as a goal, and Kerry also voted to make regime change U.S. policy in 1998. That's two Kerry votes in favor of regime change, but who's counting? The Massachusetts senator has similar trouble with other prior votes, making him the first candidate in U.S. history to run a presidential campaign against himself.

Today's Kerry excoriates Attorney General John Ashcroft for violating American civil liberties with his evil tool, the Patriot Act. "We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night," Kerry huffs. "So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time." Maybe Kerry should have thought about that before voting for the Patriot Act in 2001 -- since laws and liberties are pretty important and all.

Back before he had to worry about competing with one Howard Brush Dean, Kerry was positively delighted by the Patriot Act. "It reflects," he said on the Senate floor, "an enormous amount of hard work by the members of the Senate Banking Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee. I congratulate them and thank them for that work." While supportive of "sunset" provisions in the bill, Kerry pronounced himself "pleased at the compromise we have reached on the anti-terrorism legislation." These are not the words of a man about to help inaugurate an era of brown-shirt law enforcement.

John Kerry, A.D. (After Dean), attacks President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act as "one-size-fits-all testing mania." Worse, according to Kerry, "By signing the No Child Left Behind Act and then breaking his promise by not giving schools the resources to help meet new standards, George Bush has undermined public education and left millions of children behind." The funding charge is a canard -- overall spending on education under Bush is up 65 percent -- but it gives Kerry a way to join the Dean-led assault on the act, which he voted for -- enthusiastically.

"This is groundbreaking legislation," John Kerry, B.D. (Before Dean), gushed on the Senate floor, "that enhances the federal government's commitment to our nation's public education system ... and embraces many of the principles and programs that I believe are critical to improving the public education system." He didn't just support the bill, he took credit for it: "Last year I worked with 10 of my Democratic colleagues to introduce legislation that would help break the stalemate and move beyond the tired, partisan debates of the past. Our education proposal became the foundation of the bill before us today."

As for the North American Free Trade Agreement, the target of Dean and other liberal critics, Kerry promises to "fix it." The agreement supposedly doesn't do enough to keep Mexico from employing low-wage workers, thus encouraging jobs to leave the United States and depressing wages here. True to form, he used to love the trade deal. "NAFTA is not the problem," he explained in 1993. "Job loss is taking place without NAFTA."

And so, if the senator grabs his party's nomination, it will make for the fight of the century, a brawl to the finish -- Kerry vs. Kerry. No wonder he wants to get himself out of the Senate. By his own lights, Kerry's votes there were simply too dangerous and shortsighted for the nation to tolerate any longer.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/r...20040122.shtml
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