Naive .dat file question inside.

[goldie]

Would there be any possibility that a morpheus .dat file (or at least the guts of the file could be used in another filesharing program?

Told you it was naive - lol.

I've got about 60 incomplete .dats from the old time radio programs i've been collecting lately (like most everyone who fileshares I'd reckon). I guess they're pretty rare and just 1 or 2 people have them and catching them at just the right time to finish them is nearly impossible. However, when sniffing through Winmx's P2P, I find plenty of these hard-to-get files ripe for the picking. What a waste of .dat files, right!

How difficult/impossible would it be to use the info contained in the morph dat and possibly transfer part or most of it to say a winmx/AG, AGn, IMesh, etc. program?

Are there any similarities regarding the information collected to form the .dat files across the various filesharing programs?

I know...........................

GR - I've got a REALLY bad habit of thinking out loud - so me.

[multi]

[i]

GR - I've got a REALLY bad habit of thinking out loud - so me.
[/b]

me too goldie!
maybe we can spank each other

i must admit this had crossed my mind as well
maybe some are compatible and others not
edonkey seems to have the file in "parts"that others can start uploading(the parts that you have but they dont) in this case i would say no
tho startfiles grokster,kazza,morpheus maybe
(multi-is poking around that blackbox he calls his brain)
whats "AGn" (scuse my ignorance)
dont know about iMESH
naive ?
i belive it is an interesting question?
that i unfortunatly cant properly answer
indy,johndoe,kewbase or buzz will prob know more
cheers
-multi

[JohnDoe345]

GR,

Like multi I've been wondering about this myself. I don't know for sure but my guess is no. There might be a utility out there that will convert them for you, but I don't know of any. I guess what you can do is copy and paste the dat files into your shared folder for whatever program you want to test. Don't worry GR, don't think of yourself as a guinea pig, but rather think about all the happy users that will benefit from this experiment

What will most likely happen is that the program won't recognize the foreign file, and you'll just end up sad and depressed that you can't finish your long awaited dat files

Don't worry there is a support goup for this:
Hi, I'm JohnDoe and welcome to the incomplete dat file support group. We will drink beer day and night and talk incoherently until 5 am in the morning Let it all out GR, you'll feel better

[Stoepsel]

Hi,

I can only speak for WinMX because I don't know much about how other clients treat incomplete downloads...

WinMX keeps information about incomplete files in a simple text files called "imcomplete downloads.txt" (duh!). It says that you shouldn't tamper with that file but I think it should be rather easy to fake an incomplete file that you want to continue.

It seems to me (but I could be wrong) that WinMX doesn't store anything in its incompletely downloaded files apart from the raw data. And since you can only download from one person at the moment (version <= 2.6, multi-sourced downloads in the long awaited version 3.0 coming sometime in 2005 afaik), the incomplete files are always exactly as large as the data already transferred. In Morpheus you often get partial files almost the size of the complete file when you are downloading from more than one user. That's because Morpheus retrieves different parts of the files and allocates its partial files so that the parts that have not been retrieved are left empty.

Additionally, Morpheus adds some extra info at the end of partial files. That's something that WinMX couldn't handle.

So to finally give an answer to the original question:

I personally don't think that WinMX would be able to work with Morpheus files mainly because of the 'full-size' partial files. If it weren't for that, it would be rather simple to 'import' partial Morpheus files into WinMX after stripping off the excess data and using the "Resume from" option.

Of course all this could be complete bollocks in which case I apologize for the waste of bandwidth

Stoepsel

[multi]

multi was an edonkey
frig i got them mixed up yes of course(no i didnt)
i will edit this instead
yep its mx that has one @ a time
and eDonkey has multiple (maybe getting cofused -me thinks too many FS proggies for lunch).........burp
forgive my crazie mixed up reply there
but i am know 4 my incoherent babblings....bablings i love ,bablings or is it babblings or babelings
any way i love them on toast.......................
thx 4 yr very welcome post there Stoepsel
good 2 have u here with us @NU
plus u said afaik-i was starting 2 think the art was dying
i love afaik and ykwim
i like 2 use them in the 4ums but.....n1kwim



-multi

[JackSpratts]

hi Stoepsel, welcome to nu hope you enjoy yourself here!

- js.

[Stoepsel]

JohnDoe345 lured me here. If it wasn't for him, I'd still be cursing about the MusicCity forums being trashed...

But I think this is a good replacement forum with lots of knowledgable guys'n'gals hanging around.

Thank you all for your warm welcome.



Stoepsel

[Maze]

Just copy/paste the .dat file into the shared folder of your other p2p program and rename it "radio mystery.mp3" or whatever the exact filename is ...and begin resuming.

You have to be fairly certain that the other person's file is indeed the exact same file, and renamed to exactly what they named it (copy/paste the filename of course).

Stoepsel mentioned excess data inside the file so I'm not entirely certain of this, but I do know that you can rename the .dat file to .mp3 and it pretty much plays like an unfinished mp3 that I "presume" you could "resume".

Of course there's several ways of finding the right user, file, and server and begin resuming after renaming it. I've used Napigator & an old version of Napster, or an old version of NFS ...one of SuxXx's tool's ...to find the file on one of the many servers in the first place, and joined two mp3's that had nothing whatsoever to do with each other just for the hell of it. Naturally, it's good for resuming what you know is the same file. I've used the same method to resume what I figured was probably the same file because of the bitrate and size, but they were just named differently. One must be careful of this because that's how you get the "glitches" in the middle of the song at the resume point if they were not really the same file. In fact, you can get quite a "shriek" in the middle that way.

NFS is good (especially for the rare & obscure) and I still use it ...but usually as a last resort ...because it's not good to not share ...that hurts the entire p2p community. If everybody did that, there'd be nothing on there.

[goldie]

Originally posted by Stoepsel
Hi,

I can only speak for WinMX because I don't know much about how other clients treat incomplete downloads...

WinMX keeps information about incomplete files in a simple text files called "imcomplete downloads.txt" (duh!). It says that you shouldn't tamper with that file but I think it should be rather easy to fake an incomplete file that you want to continue.

It seems to me (but I could be wrong) that WinMX doesn't store anything in its incompletely downloaded files apart from the raw data. And since you can only download from one person at the moment (version <= 2.6, multi-sourced downloads in the long awaited version 3.0 coming sometime in 2005 afaik), the incomplete files are always exactly as large as the data already transferred. In Morpheus you often get partial files almost the size of the complete file when you are downloading from more than one user. That's because Morpheus retrieves different parts of the files and allocates its partial files so that the parts that have not been retrieved are left empty.

Okay - I've gotten the multi source problem down and understand the difficulties involved with resuming one. But, what if the file you download is not part of the multi-source variety and the end-data can be stripped off the file? One file + one user - only (for now anyway).

Also, going back to the multisource, partial file problem.......

If you take that multisource partial dat file to another multisource compatible application with the end-data removed, would it be possible to resume the file in that other application?

Guess it would also depend how the other application stores the file's data also, right?

[SIZE=small]<sigh> this is getting to be a rather slippery surface indeed.[/size]

Additionally, Morpheus adds some extra info at the end of partial files. That's something that WinMX couldn't handle.

So to finally give an answer to the original question:

I personally don't think that WinMX would be able to work with Morpheus files mainly because of the 'full-size' partial files. If it weren't for that, it would be rather simple to 'import' partial Morpheus files into WinMX after stripping off the excess data and using the "Resume from" option.

Remember, I (you, whoever) have the dats of some very hard-to-get files, most of the files can only be found on 1 or 2 people's hard drives (one of them is typically not sharing or is behind a firewall). Wouldn't it be cool if you can make that partial file portable from one application to another compatible application.

It'd be a good way to spread that rare file around a network, wouldn't it?

Of course all this could be complete bollocks in which case I apologize for the waste of bandwidth
Stoepsel [/b]

Thanks for "your thoughts out loud"!

[multi]

Originally posted by Maze
...to find the file on one of the many servers in the first place, and joined two mp3's that had nothing whatsoever to do with each other just for the hell of it.

heya maze,
you did that in a wave editor i am wondering
been into them since the early versions of goldwave&cooledit
(hell CE was the first dodgey serial# i used still remeber it:bmjzcpux....hows that ! remember that from '95 must of done lots of reinstalls in 3.11 didnt get 95 till 98 didnt get 98 till 2000
got ME now but that dont fit the seqence so i dont look good for ME !- sorta my moores law every 2 yrs i'll upgrade to the os that came out 2yrs earlier)
the editors that are out these days a pretty neat
i patched a bad shreik once like that and the transition was barely recognizable best to have it in a big messy wave when u do -mp3's are like the lossy format in graphics editors nice to have the end product and crap to try and manipulate
-multi

[goldie]

Originally posted by Maze
Just copy/paste the .dat file into the shared folder of your other p2p program and rename it "radio mystery.mp3" or whatever the exact filename is ...and begin resuming.

You have to be fairly certain that the other person's file is indeed the exact same file, and renamed to exactly what they named it (copy/paste the filename of course).

Stoepsel mentioned excess data inside the file so I'm not entirely certain of this, but I do know that you can rename the .dat file to .mp3 and it pretty much plays like an unfinished mp3 that I "presume" you could "resume".

Of course there's several ways of finding the right user, file, and server and begin resuming after renaming it. I've used Napigator & an old version of Napster, or an old version of NFS ...one of SuxXx's tool's ...to find the file on one of the many servers in the first place, and joined two mp3's that had nothing whatsoever to do with each other just for the hell of it. Naturally, it's good for resuming what you know is the same file. I've used the same method to resume what I figured was probably the same file because of the bitrate and size, but they were just named differently. One must be careful of this because that's how you get the "glitches" in the middle of the song at the resume point if they were not really the same file. In fact, you can get quite a "shriek" in the middle that way.

NFS is good (especially for the rare & obscure) and I still use it ...but usually as a last resort ...because it's not good to not share ...that hurts the entire p2p community. If everybody did that, there'd be nothing on there.

Maze, reckon I'll be playing around with a dat or two and see what happens. Thanks for the great advice and the link to NFS, I'm always on the look out for new toys.

WinMX will do a little "comparison dance" before it will dl the file, it checks to see if the two files do indeed match up that's why I specifically named them. I don't know how any of the other's do their comparing or, like you mentioned, if they compare files at all.

I do know (or at least, observed) that for certain things, OTR shows for example, unless it's an actual incomplete file, they are all exactly the same size when completed regardless of the persons hosting the file.

Sometimes it's just frustrating to dl a hard-to-get file only to find that there's only 1 or 2 out there and you're stuck (perhaps for an eternity) with half an episode. It's also frustrating when you run into users who have it and can't or won't share (but that's another topic entirely lol).

(Multi, by AGn I was referring to AudioGnome).

[goldie]

Okay here's what I did so far:

1. Went into WinMX - changed file types to include dat files along with the mp3's and exe's.
2. Grabbed a dat file that I knew the title of already, highlighted the dat file, renamed it to mp3 (in WinMX).

3. Dat file, now an mp3 is now listed, with it's stats: bitrate, size, frequency and time appearing normal in WinMX shared folder same as it appears in Morpheus shared file.

Unfortunately this is as far as I've gotten. Will keep you posted of further experiments LOL.

GR

[SIZE=big]UPDATED:[/size]

Lucked out and found the exact same file from the exact same user in WinMX as I'd originally dl'd from on Morpheus.

Attempted to dl (actually it was as a RESUME) the file and received the dreaded "Resume does not match" message from WinMX. Renamed the file exactly the way the user had the file named and tried to dl again and received the same message. (It took about 45 seconds for WinMX to compare the two files.)

Why do ya think? Is it strictly because of the end of file data that Morpheus adds on or is it something else having to do with WinMX? I'm kindof leaning towards the stuff Morph adds but, I'm not exactly the best qualified person to come to that conclusion .

Sooooooooooo.....................that's where I'm at for now. Anyone have any ingenious suggestions? I'm not a 'puter brain so suggestions will have to be relatively tame.......errrr.........lame LOL. Willing to give it a shot though!

This is very interesting (and kindof fun really) nevertheless!!

[indiana_jones]

@golden
meanwhile, i know a bit about the information, that is stored at the end of
the .dat file. what i dont know is the mechanism, how morpheus, handles
the multisource thing, but by time, maybe i find out.
if there were only 1 or 2 users, having this file it's possible that these
downloads were only from 1 user so that your .dats contain 1 consistent
part of the file.
if you just renamed it, and winmx uses the same identification mechanism
like morpheus (signature), it will for sure tell you that its not the same
file. if you change 1 bit in a file, the signature totally differs.

@stoepsel
if winmx uses a txt file, to describe incomplete downloads, could you attach
it here or send it to vliabb@yahoo.com, additionally i needed the exact
name of some incomplete files, and the exact size of it (windows filesize
in bytes, to match parameter pattern in this txt file.
maybe i can find the same files at morpheus and look at the
differences and equalites they use in their description.

indy

[Stoepsel]

Originally posted by indiana_jones
@stoepsel
if winmx uses a txt file, to describe incomplete downloads, could you attach
it here or send it to vliabb@yahoo.com, additionally i needed the exact
name of some incomplete files, and the exact size of it (windows filesize
in bytes, to match parameter pattern in this txt file.
maybe i can find the same files at morpheus and look at the
differences and equalites they use in their description.

indy

indy, i'd be happy to. expect a sample file here in roughly 8 hours. i'm currently at work and don't have a sample file here.

till then,
Stoepsel

[Stoepsel]

Originally posted by goldenrod

Okay - I've gotten the multi source problem down and understand the difficulties involved with resuming one. But, what if the file you download is not part of the multi-source variety and the end-data can be stripped off the file? One file + one user - only (for now anyway).

OK, as I suggested earlier, it should be comparatively simple to have WinMX resume a partial Morpheus donwload if the download is guaranteed to consist of exactly one contiguous part of raw data, i.e. no stuffing added for unretrieved data, plus the excess data Morpheus adds.

The first trick would be to strip off the excess data from the end of the file. So you need to know, where this excess data begins. And unfortunately, I haven't the faintest. Maybe someone like indy or AYB would know more about that. AYB works on the DATRepairer that tries to fix problems with DAT files by tampering with the excess data.

Once you know where the excess data starts, you have to somehow make a copy of the DAT file without that data. Maybe there are tools out there that let you do that... Or write your own, if you have the skills.

The second trick is to make WinMX think that it tried to download the file before. First, rename the DAT to mp3 (or whatever type of file it is). Then by tampering with the "incomplete downloads.txt" create a fake entry for your file. I'll post an example of one later today. But from memory, the file is really simple to understand.

Then start WinMX. In the transfer window, press the "Show Incomplete Downloads" button. This should display your file. Then do a "Find Alternates" and hope you get a result. Resume the download from one of the users that shows up in the results.

That should really be it. There are still open questions that I can't answer (start of excess data, how to strip off excess data), but maybe someone else has an idea.

Originally posted by goldenrod

Also, going back to the multisource, partial file problem.......

If you take that multisource partial dat file to another multisource compatible application with the end-data removed, would it be possible to resume the file in that other application?

Guess it would also depend how the other application stores the file's data also, right?

<sigh> this is getting to be a rather slippery surface indeed.

I have no idea, how Morpheus keeps track of which parts of a multi-sourced download it has already retrieved. It could be part of the excess data or it could be stored in the .dbb files. No clue. And even if I did know, how would you tell the other application, which parts are already downloaded.

To summarize, I don't think there is an easy solution for this problem. At least nothing I could help you with. Sowwy.

Originally posted by goldenrod

Remember, I (you, whoever) have the dats of some very hard-to-get files, most of the files can only be found on 1 or 2 people's hard drives (one of them is typically not sharing or is behind a firewall). Wouldn't it be cool if you can make that partial file portable from one application to another compatible application.

It'd be a good way to spread that rare file around a network, wouldn't it?

Like I said above, it would be quite a job to do. We have to assume that every application treats its partial files differently - OK, maybe one exception with Morpheus, Grokster, Kazaa and their clones. And with the number of applications around you'd have to be able to freely convert from one partial file format to another. Or better yet, create your own partial file format and be able to convert back and forth between the application formats and your own format.

Looking for volunteers for the job? Don't look in my direction.

/me takes a step back.

Stoepsel

[Stoepsel]

OK, here is a sample "incomplete downloads.txt" file:


//WinMX incomplete downloads
//
//PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE




Local Path: C:\My Music\Incoming\Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence (German Killer Remix).mp3
Remote Path: c:\music\titremp3\Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence (German Killer Remix).mp3
Expected Size: 5814272
User: gege418950d91a2b
Server: [WPNP] frontcode.com:7734
Entry Time: 01/30/02 18:32:58



As you can see, it's really simple to understand:

Local Path - that's the path to my incoming directory plus file name
Remote Path - the path where the file is downloaded from on the remote machine
Expected Size - size of the complete file in bytes
User - name of the user I'm downloading from
Server - the server I am/was connected to
Entry Time - time when the download was started

It should be really easy to fake an entry in this file, because you want to resume from some user so you can just about put anything into Remote Path and User. Likewise, you don't really need to put anything sensible into Server and Entry Time, I guess.

I also attached the complete file that has one more example.

Hope that answers some questions,
Stoepsel

[indiana_jones]

thank you stoepsel,
since i do not know winmx - i just ask a few questions.

how do one find a file in winmx - it seems rather lowtech, compared
to fasttrack tech, which seems very much better.

lets assume, i'm able to extract the 1. part of a mp3 out of a dat file,
and get all parameters, characterizing this mp3, like

• filename, filesize, artist, title etc.

how can i find the corresponding file at winmx.
can i enter thi things like in morpheus and get a list of results, telling
me the exact filename and size + user?

if you have time, maybe you could join the chat, on botom of this page.
indy

[Stoepsel]

Hi indy,

since you ran out on me in the chat (:P) I'll try and explain WinMX searching capabilities here:

First of all, searching in WinMX is pretty much the same as in Morpheus. You can specify Artist/Title, restrict file types, connection types (DSL, T1, 56K, ...) and MP3 bitrates.

WinMX uses only the filename to match against the artist/title. It doesn't search against ID3 tags as Morpheus does.

The search results display file name, exact file size, user name, bitrate, connection type.

You can select files from the search list and start to download them. if you have an imcomplete donwload that matches the file you want to download, winmx offers you the option to resume the download or start a new file. That's where the "incomplete downloads.txt" file is used.

Hope that's answers everything,
Stoepsel