I will develop a new Filesharing prog!

[Teclis]

what do you mean mazer(twinspan)? could you try to explain?

[Mazer]

Well, boolean searching is like any web search engine like Yahoo or Google. If you enter two different words like 'George Harrison' you might get 'George Michael' or 'Harrison Ford' as results, but if you type 'George +Harrison' then you'll only get results that include both words. When you search for 'BT' you'll get a lot of results for 'BTO' unless you type 'BT -BTO,' in which case it will exclude the results you don't want. Surrounding a phrase in quotes (") will make it search for exactly that phrase. So you can see that this would be the best tool for people who want to find rare stuff without having to scan through hundreds of results from a vague search. Really, you can't call it a search engine unless it includes these features.

[SA_Dave]

Yay Boolean!

All these points are good. I think one thing wasn't mentioned though...DO NOT include SPYWARE!!!

John Doe brought up a very good point. I like to think of this as prioritising transfers. I mentioned that in my first post. My database idea is somewhat complicated, but I believe that a client with either built-in links or a browser pane, which links directly to a user-maintained db (much like sharereactor, FTCentral, bitzi or p2pmovies) is perfect in this regard. This is probably the best way to emulate the speed & db capabilities of a server-based system in a decentralised network. I recommend you read that entire thread, as well as this one for some ideas. I realise you must be pressed for time which is why I mentioned only those 2, but there are many threads in this forum that deal with people's expectations from/frustrations with p2p clients.

The second topic deals with broadband issues. Your client shouldn't ignore us poor 56K'ers (of which I'm one), but it should also take high-speed users into account. Especially leeching broadband users (it's a problem with all users regardless of connection speed.) Another important point is not to include an option which easily disables sharing. The client should make sharing easy & transparent, without introducing security risks (like Kazaa's ridiculous auto-scanning thingy.) It would be nice if good sharers are given rewards, like receiving priority in queues (especially for rarer files, which in turn will make them more available etc.)

Finally, if you use some sort of community-driven anti-leeching tool (like DC hubs) you should consider all users needs/circumstances. DC is for example too restrictive, elitist & rather unfriendly. I believe a successful client should be modular (eg. if you want to preview, make use of an external player) for stability & backwards compatability purposes. Never underestimate the power of cross-platform, highly stable, easy-for-newbies-to-use, efficient, optimised, low-system-requirements & backwards-compatable software. The more people using it, the better the community. The better the word-of-mouth, the more varied the content as a result of more users. And so on...

I believe that sums it up.

[StereoDeluxe]

AG like Group - Community concept and able to "SEND" files to all group members or user(s) within the group. well, it's not actually "SEND" its remotely initiating other users "search and download" with specific file. in addition "Block Sender" to avoid spammers.

Welcome to NU!

Make it difficult for leeches.Make them have at least a few files to share.If they are downloading a movie they should have some current movies to share.the same with music and software.
the othere thing i ask is make it easy to use like grokster,kaazaa and the old morpheus.E-donkey and direct connect are complicated for us less savy sharers. I love to share with others and can't stand it when i check their files and find nothing. I only have 10GB but i fill her to the max before i start deleting older files.Please let us know on fasttrack central the name of your new site and when it will be open.BE FAIR-SHARE!!

[Merijn]

How about steal^H^H^H^H^Hloaning the idea of the FastTrack network and use supernodes to keep a decentralized network fast _and_ scalable?

[twinspan]

Search by File Size

FT has some options but not enough. e.g. if I want to find a dvd rip of a movie, i can rule out trailers, similarly named videos, small fakes etc. by setting search option to:
At Least - 100,000KB.

But that still returns crappy cam caps of movies (around 100~200MB) mixed in with the dvd rips (680MB and up).

[twinspan]

File Types

firstly, I want to say that a new p2p app should share all file types, not just one.

secondly, should be able to filter searches by file type and broad categories of file type.
some p2p clients can filter searches by broad categories of file type (audio, video etc.) which is very handy. But they don't always know every file type for a category and so exclude some (e.g. FT excludes .rm Real Video from the Video category).

also, some types of file can only be found in an "everything/all categories" search, e.g. zip files. And, in FT, you can't fine tune searches in the "everything" category filtering by file size, which can be a real pain.
Maybe have a 'compressed' category? all zip, rar etc. files.

thirdly, should be able to block certain file types. for example, i do not want to download any .vbs or.scr files, so it would be handy just to have add them to a blocklist so they never show up in my search results in the first place.
And the app should NOT hide filetype extensions, no matter what the user's own PC settings are on that.

[Teclis]

I can't block all the users who don't share anyfile,cause they could be new!you know?´but I will develop a system that they can't block the files they had download at the program! I think thats a good idea!what do you think?



@StereoDeluxe:
yeahh I like the ag community feeling! forum, groups and so on! thats cool! I will try to make the same! but remember that ag is central and our prog will be decentral!

[JohnDoe345]

Originally posted by Teclis
I can't block all the users who don't share anyfile,cause they could be new!you know?

It sounds like you are going to include partial file downloadling like edonkey. Let me just add that this feature is great for new users because they don't have to have any files to start sharing right away. With partial file downloading the second you start downloading you are sharing the parts you have right away.

With the partial file downloading you might want to include ratio sharing as a reward system. For users who upload at something like 1 up:3 down ratio(the ratio can be debated on) they get higher priority in the que lines for files. No one has to upload at that ratio but for the users that do they get a reward. I believe that creating a reward system that doesn't exclude new users (like Direct Connect does) is one of the better ways to reduce the leeching problem.

Originally posted by Teclis
´but I will develop a system that they can't block the files they had download at the program! I think thats a good idea!what do you think?

This might not be such a great idea because what if someone downloads a fake file? If they can't unshare it then we'll have a lot of fakes going around.

That leads me to the next problem. If you can....it would be nice if the internal player can preview a file so you'll know if it is a fake or not. It's also a nice feature to know what the quality is for the file you are downloading. Sometimes other users don't give correct descriptions about the file. For example, they may say it's great quality when it really isn't.

It would also be nice if you can have description windows for the files like Kazaa. There is only so much you can write in the filename.

[zombywoof]

Originally posted by JohnDoe345




With the partial file downloading you might want to include ratio sharing as a reward system. For users who upload at something like 1 up:3 down ratio(the ratio can be debated on) they get higher priority in the que lines for files. No one has to upload at that ratio but for the users that do they get a reward. I believe that creating a reward system that doesn't exclude new users (like Direct Connect does) is one of the better ways to reduce the leeching problem.



This

Any idea of putting in any type of ratio system in a p2p app will turn off users right from the get-go. I'm talking about non-leechers. There will always be a percentage of leechers in any network, but the majority of users do share. .

[Spaceboy]

Yeah. Ratio is a bad idea(will put a lot of people off). I think minimum share is a far better option.

[JohnDoe345]

Originally posted by oscar

Any idea of putting in any type of ratio system in a p2p app will turn off users right from the get-go.

I was thinking about that too. I'm not saying that an inclusion of a ratio system is the best reward system but it would be nice to create some kind of reward based system for those that share a lot.

I was also not saying that a ratio system by itself would be a good idea. I was thinking more of the ratio as a way to keep track of users that shared a lot and then allowing them to have better priority in que lines as a reward rather then using it as an anti-leeching system. Like I said before no one would have to have to upload at a ratio. What I'm saying is if some users do have a good upload to download ratio then they would get some reward for it. Although, I'm sure you will be able to do this with another system besides using a ratio.

Originally posted by oscar
There will always be a percentage of leechers in any network, but the majority of users do share. .

Yes, I agree that there will always be users that will leech and it's impossible to expect a completely leech-free network. The percentage also varies from one program to the next. Although, I usually find a lot more sources and selection of files from programs that have some kind of anti-leeching system like edonkey and Direct Connect.

Originally posted by Spaceboy
I think minimum share is a far better option.

For the majority of users this really isn't a good option. Users can just share fake files or their whole hard drive rather then just actual files that users would want to download. This is a common problem with Direct Connect which requires shared minimums. Also if the share minimums are too high then you'll be excluding a lot of users. Not everyone has large hard drives. This is especially true for users with laptops.

Currently I think that partial file downloads like edonkey is the fairest system. I haven't tried the karma system from Songspy, but other anti-leeching methods aren't too great for the majority of users.

[blury_]

There's just something about using a website that makes it so easy to share files. I'm really pro AG and biased at that!

Who wants to work with a confusing program like DirectConnect, WinMX, or Soulseek. What a waste of space with all of those windows!!!

Something simple and easy to use like AudioGalaxy or Badblue (although Badblue takes up 99% CPU - what a shame).

But of course...like you said, Teclis, I'm in favor of a decentralized network.

And again I like that idea about using boolean searching, Mazer

I like the google way of doing it (this is the only search engine that i use)....put quotes around a phrase that you want.

Basically anything that AudioGalaxy had in terms of the BB's and groups would be awesome.

Also...I'd love another logfile of all of the songs downloaded to show your progress...

This is all I can think about...

Thanks Teclis for wanting to do this!!!

[Fantom]

Originally posted by twinspan
Search by File Size
FT has some options but not enough. e.g. if I want to find a dvd rip of a movie, i can rule out trailers, similarly named videos, small fakes etc. by setting search option to:
At Least - 100,000KB.
But that still returns crappy cam caps of movies (around 100~200MB) mixed in with the dvd rips (680MB and up).

I noticed just the other day that the 100,000 KB thing is just a guide. You can click on it and enter any file size at all, and it works. 600,000KB can be really usefull.

Mine is KaZaA Lite 1.7.1

[SA_Dave]

twinspan (& others) brought up some excellent points:[list=1][*]Custom search categories : FTrack clients have this feature, for example video, software etc. However, they should suit your needs ie. I can add .rm to video, create a new category (using custom file-type & keyword filters) or even hide certain categories under the options. I would like the ability to have a general search view, as well as self-categorised results. For example, in Kazaa's "My Files" section, clicking on 'all' shows all your files, but 'videos' displays vids only. This is also a feature that many download managers (FlashGet, GetRight, DAP etc.) have, although I'd like this in my search results. [*]Security & virus filters : I'd like to add that it would be good to filter out most files with double-barreled extensions eg. *.mp3.vbs; *.jpg.exe etc. but you should show all extensions regardless for obvious reasons. Notable exceptions might include *.exe.zip (although if your custom search categories were well designed it shouldn't be necessary.)[*]Ease of use : FileTopia (although difficult for many to use) has a nice toggle between 'expert mode' & the basic view. Something like this could be useful for p2p junkies as well as newbies. This may sound dorky, but I think the easy mode should be educational eg. if someone tries to download an .exe, there might be a warning in a side panel (beneath the search parameters for example) about viruses, links to anti-virus resources & maybe a brief definition/tips. It's amazing how many people using computers know absolutely nothing about them! Perhaps the expert mode could have a little quiz which you must pass before tinkering with & potentially screwing up your system. [/list=1]

Originally posted by Teclis

´but I will develop a system that they can't block the files they had download at the program! I think thats a good idea!what do you think?

Personally, I think that this is a brilliant idea! There are always going to be fakers etc. & if you successfully integrate your 'hotlinks' feature it'll be even better!! My only concerns are that people continually move files between folders/drives/media. Will this feature allow for this & another important question is will you be able to share files from removable media (CD-r, zip drives, unmapped network drives) effortlessly? AG is the only client I've used which allows for diversity & fluctuaton in media, without having to map network drives etc.

Originally posted by oscar

Any idea of putting in any type of ratio system in a p2p app will turn off users right from the get-go. I'm talking about non-leechers. There will always be a percentage of leechers in any network, but the majority of users do share. .

I agree with oscar 100% Ratios are very off-putting to newbies. This might be something to consider for an 'expert mode', as JohnDoe345 mentioned. Newbies should be encouraged ie. they can sit down with minimum configuration hassle & immediately begin searching & downloading. They tell their friends how cool your program is, so they d/l & install it. You have to remember that everyone was a noob at some point & that they should be made comfortable, which in turn will create more happy sharers as they learn & mature.

I can't wait to see the results!
{Edit : credit given where credit is due! }

[JohnDoe345]

Originally posted by SA_Dave
Ease of use : FileTopia (although difficult for many to use) has a nice toggle between 'expert mode' & the basic view.

I agree that making it easy to use is one of the most important feature that you should work on. A lot of users stick to only a few p2p programs because they don't want to take the time or hassle to learn a more complicated program even if it is better. You might want to somewhat copy the easy of use of Kazaa or Xolox. I'm sure there are some others but those are the only ones I can think of at the moment. I also agree that there should be a basic mode and an advance mode.

Originally posted by Teclis
'but I will develop a system that they can't block the files they had download at the program! I think thats a good idea!what do you think?

I was rethinking this idea and maybe it is a pretty good feature. If you do download a fake file then you can simply delete it so that it won't be shared on the network anymore. Of course, users can just download, burn, and delete so that they don't have to share. Although, it is a nice feature as an addition to partial downloading.

I guess we really won't know what features will truely work until we have tried a beta version of your program.

[Merijn]

Originally posted by Fantom

I noticed just the other day that the 100,000 KB thing is just a guide. You can click on it and enter any file size at all, and it works. 600,000KB can be really usefull.

Mine is KaZaA Lite 1.7.1

Going even further off-topic: All Kazaa versions support this. I'm using 1.4 right now and set the minimum filesize to 500,000 KB when searching for movies. This seems to be the best limit for DVD rips - Dogma for instance is 592 MB, but it's an excellent DVD rip

[twinspan]

<twinspan continues his obsession with searches>

SAVED SEARCHES
when there's a particular file I'm having trouble finding, i need to search for it several times; I hate (in FT) having to type the same damned terms and setting the parameters over & over again. Please: saved searches!!! (doesn't have to save the results of the search, just the query terms/filters so that I can run it again with one click)

@Fantom

I noticed just the other day that the 100,000 KB thing is just a guide. You can click on it and enter any file size at all, and it works. 600,000KB can be really usefull.

Mine is KaZaA Lite 1.7.1

you're a star! I can't believe I never tried that; i just assumed because there was a drop menu that those options were my only... options.

I can confirm it works in Grokster 1.5.1 as well.

[Teclis]

ok this will be a hard weekend for us! we will work all the time on the program!hope that we can develop a beta very fast!at moment we have only the network(with some bugs too) but we will implement the gui this weekend!


GIVE ME SOME COFFEE