Iran: A Bridge too Far?

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Sinner

it seems Americans are not to worried about the fact they are directly involved in the killing of American soldiers in Iraq

Threre is no evidence to support that claim other than Bush, Cheney, Condi, et el. saying it is so, and we all know how honest that group is.[/sarchasm]

Maybe you call it a "fact" due to those wily Iranians' clever use of the western media to their advantage propagandawise?

Of course the Iranian diplomats who were illegally arrested in Iraq are most likey right now being tortured into "confessing" to whatever the hell their witch hunters want them to.

It is the exact same game plan they used in the run up to the Iraq disaster except this time they think they can pull off another Gulf of Tonkin event and ramrod Congress into voting for war with Iran.

And by they I mean Israel.

Like I said, Iran has a problem with Israel and Israel has a problem with Iran and as far as I can tell, there is nothing between them but air and opportunity.
And again, not my or my country's problem.

I wonder how most americans would feel if Iran had a well financed lobbying group constantly pestering our elected politicians in DC to attack Israel and saturating the media with evil Israel stories?

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by RDixon

And again, not my or my country's problem.

You must live in a very isolated country then. Where at, Antartica? The moon?

Do you really think a nuclear war that will spread to involve eastern Europe, southern Asia, northern Africa, and half of the world's population will not have any effect on the United States? When Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, and Israel decide to glass the entire middle east and send a billion souls to the afterlife, you're just going to sit in your living room and watch it on TV with a bowl of popcorn? Wow. I never knew such apathy could exist.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Mazer

You must live in a very isolated country then. Where at, Antartica? The moon?

Do you really think a nuclear war that will spread to involve eastern Europe, southern Asia, northern Africa, and half of the world's population will not have any effect on the United States? When Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, and Israel decide to glass the entire middle east and send a billion souls to the afterlife, you're just going to sit in your living room and watch it on TV with a bowl of popcorn? Wow. I never knew such apathy could exist.

Nope.
I'll be sitting on the beach knocking back shooters of Maker's Mark.

By the way the fear isn't working any more.

The world is NOT going to end if we DON'T attack Iran.

Just like America was not going to be sprouting mushroom clouds if we did not invade Iraq.

Same bold faced lies; different country.

War with Iran?
No thanks.
One clusterfuck was enough.

If you and the neocons want war with Iran so badly; move to Israel.
I hear that they will be starting one with them very soon and seeing as how they have a population of less than 7 million people, I'm quite certain they would welcome you with open "arms".

[theknife]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Nope.
I'll be sitting on the beach knocking back shooters of Maker's Mark.

By the way the fear isn't working any more.

The world is NOT going to end if we DON'T attack Iran.

Just like America was not going to be sprouting mushroom clouds if we did not invade Iraq.

Same bold faced lies; different country.

War with Iran?
No thanks.
One clusterfuck was enough.

If you and the neocons want war with Iran so badly; move to Israel.
I hear that they will be starting one with them very soon and seeing as how they have a population of less than 7 million people, I'm quite certain they would welcome you with open "arms".

what beach? save me a shot

totally agree with all of this and am puzzled by one thing: why would anyone believe anything they are being told by the Bush administration? even being charitable and not calling them outright liars, the administration neocons and the hawks have been wrong about absolutely everything.

this administration has only fear to sell - it amazes me how many suckers are buying.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by theknife

what beach? save me a shot

totally agree with all of this and am puzzled by one thing: why would anyone believe anything they are being told by the Bush administration? even being charitable and not calling them outright liars, the administration neocons and the hawks have been wrong about absolutely everything.

this administration has only fear to sell - it amazes me how many suckers are buying.

It's not really a beach in the sense that you think of beaches.
It's a very isolated piece of property on the river that my brother owns and we cut a trail down the mountain through the woods to it.
4 wheeler access only or walk.
Or a 4 x 4 that you don't care about scuffing up.
There is a big sandbar there so we started calling it the beach.
I'll save you some Maker's Mark if you bring me a quart of untaxed whiskey from Wilkes county.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Nope.
I'll be sitting on the beach knocking back shooters of Maker's Mark.

By the way the fear isn't working any more.

The world is NOT going to end if we DON'T attack Iran.

Just like America was not going to be sprouting mushroom clouds if we did not invade Iraq.

Same bold faced lies; different country.

War with Iran?
No thanks.
One clusterfuck was enough.

If you and the neocons want war with Iran so badly; move to Israel.
I hear that they will be starting one with them very soon and seeing as how they have a population of less than 7 million people, I'm quite certain they would welcome you with open "arms".

Nice to hear you're not afraid. But keep two things in mind: a) this is my analysis, not the administration's, and b) I'm not advocating war, I'm warning of it's coming. Since your kind will most likely keep the US out of Iran's affairs for as long as possible I'm pretty sure we'll be totally unable to stop whatever is going to happen. I only hope you won't have to eat your words in a few years. If you're the one to say I told you so and not me, I'll be more than happy.

[multi]

Since your kind will most likely keep the US out of Iran's affairs for as long as possible I'm pretty sure we'll be totally unable to stop whatever is going to happen.

Seeing TG's post on the news that China can now knock out satellites makes me ask...

what about China.?.they don't invade parts of the middle east or meddle in their affairs anywhere as much as UK/US they don't have the media in all their cities controlled by parties only interested in making it a one sided issue, no. they do not really
need to worry about being hated by Muslims.

I find it interesting that the west a few hundred years ago got much of the technologies from the near and far east that helped form the technologies we use today, once apon a time the travelers from the east brought back more and more ideas philosophies and culture to the emerging western world. many things like the fact we use zero come from there, it's in the history books but it's not being taught.

so should China worry if nukes start flying over there ? they have enough interest in the area to
want to at least to not want to see things completely destroyed, but the west somehow must have the injustices it has perpetrated against the region undone. Maybe even learn one of the biggest lessons of its existence.

Reexamine the last two or three hundred years of the involvement of the west in that area, and the emigration of certain ethnic races from the region to our cities and why when the immigration to our cities reached a certain threshold about 10 or so years ago ,where it had become much more even in numbers we find our selves suddenly in a war where one of the parties becomes an unrelenting dishonest enemy who's goal is to only destroy the west by any means possible

[Sinner]

Right - this may surprise you knife but there is a world outside of America and in this World outside of America many counties are saying the same thing. Also in the World outside of America there is this organization, a rather useless one but all the same, they call themselves the United Nations, they just put sanctions against Iran because of their growing threat to peace. So let us take Bush out of the equation. Unless you are talking about the drone Iran supposedly shot down, American sources in Iraq deny it. If you would rather believe a Extremist who hates America over your know government that is your right.

So Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, (Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf) - Egypt, Israel, Britain, and The UN to name a few, are all conspiring with the Bush Administration? I find this hard to believe but I will leave a quote below which may help it make a little more sense. Your hated toward your government is blinding you, only a fool can believe an Extremist like President Tom should have nuclear weapons. I hope the world is wrong and nothing happens, do want another Cold War scenario? I am all for a peaceful resolution, nothing could be better, but doing nothing is not the answer, I am not saying war is the answer, but you can not just stand on the sidelines, cross your fingers and hope everything will just be ok. We all need to realize that these problems aren’t about politics or party lines, at the end of the day, you are not Democrats or Republicans, you are Americans, and this problem applies equally to us all. It is the religious leaders, the Ayatollahs who call the shots and one thing history has taught us about Iran, They don't make threats - they make promises.

“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence.” — Bertrand Russell, Roads to Freedom

[multi]

a cold war type nuclear stand off is enevitable
if not already happening..
didn't the US threaten to send Pakistan back to the stone age a little while ago ?

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by multi

so should China worry if nukes start flying over there ? they have enough interest in the area to
want to at least to not want to see things completely destroyed, but the west somehow must have the injustices it has perpetrated against the region undone. Maybe even learn one of the biggest lessons of its existence.

I have a gut feeling that the US and China made a clandestine deal where the US promised to keep Iran's nuclear program under control if China promised to keep North Korea's nuclear program under control. China has been curiously cooperative up until now, maybe they really are afraid that a nuclear Iran would disrupt their burgeoning industries. That's why I think any nuclear war or cold war involving Iran would invariably involve China too. They're not as dependent on the Middle East's oil as we are but they know they will be soon. Maybe the US is letting Iran get away with making nukes as a way of backhanding China for letting North Korea make nukes.

[multi]

yeh..interesting take
can't say i disagree too much with any of that..
i must be missing something