The Illegal Immigration thing

[floydian slip]

I dont mind mexican people. I also understand why most want to be here. But there are always some agitators like the Aztlan movement, they want to take over the SW U.S.

When I see the people protesting for rights and waving a Mexican flag it is kind of Oxy-moronic eh? If your here and want to have the rights of a US citizen then why are they flying the flag of the country they just left?

The border can be patroled and or closed very easily if they wanted it to be. The Minuteman Project prooved that. Yet our govt does nothing to stop it, and the people that try to stop it are called vigilantes by our President. WTF?

[RoBoBoy]

What makes you think the government wants to stop the border crossings?

[albed]

Originally Posted by floydian slip

The border can be patroled and or closed very easily if they wanted it to be. ... Yet our govt does nothing to stop it,

Originally Posted by RoBoBoy

What makes you think the government wants to stop the border crossings?

GENIUS.






It's cheap labor for the businesspeople who contribute the money that gets both Republicans and Democrats elected.

Now that elections are coming you see some pretensions of stopping illegal immigration but it's practically guaranteed to be worthless gestures.

I've thought before of brushing up on my spanish and dying my hair black to get one of those jobs without all the fucking taxes and deductions for everyone and everything. It's become a major pain for employees as well as employers; all the fucking lawyers and bureaucrats involved in everything.

[miss_silver]

Those peeps have read too much Gary Jennings IMO

Aztlan is as mythical as Atlantis or the island of Mû. We've heard about them but never found them. According to their Aztec legend, before Spain invaded, it was said that the Aztec population came from the Island? of Aztlan but left to find new territory. It was said that they would know where to stop when they would see an eagle perched on a cactus holding in it's claw a serpent, Tenochtitlan (Mexico City). They then settled on the island and started to flurish as a civilisation by conquerring neighboring tribes. Deal was, you will be protected and be part of the Aztec nation as long as you pay a yearly tribute to them, fail to comply, it's off to the slave market. No wonder Cortez had little trouble conquerring them, he promised the surrounding tribes freedom if they helped him and his conquistador to subdo the hated Aztecs.

Those students are deluding themselves if they think they can lay claim on Aztlan, First, it would need to be found and second, I'm sure that the Comanche, Hopi, Apache, Shoshone would beg to differ that it's not Aztec/Mexican land and never was.

I think Tom Friedman said it best - We need a very tall wall with a very wide gate.

[theknife]

it's pretty amazing, actually - the birth of a political movement virtually overnight. from the NYT:

Immigration Advocates Rally Across U.S

By MARIA NEWMAN
Published: April 10, 2006

Crowds of immigrants and their supporters predicted to total in the hundreds of thousands marched today in more than 100 cities throughout the country, casting off the old fears of their illegal status to assert that they have a right to a humane life in this country.

Thousands took part in a large immigration march and rally in Atlanta, Ga., today. More Photos >

The marches were taking place in big cities like Washington, New York City, Houston, Los Angeles, Phoenix and Atlanta, and in smaller communities like Hyde Park, N.Y., Garden City, Kan., and Belle Glade, Fla. Some of the marchers invoked the tactics and slogans of the civil rights era, and others were trying out a new voice for an emerging constituency that in the very recent past has hidden from authority because of their lack of papers, afraid to speak up, willing to work for wages that American citizens will not accept.

In Madison, Wis., a rally drew 25,000, organizers said. The police, who estimated the crowd to be closer to 10,000, nevertheless said it was one of the largest rallies they have seen in 10 years there.

the GOP was hoping to create a wedge issue with immigration...instead they succeeded in mobilizing and unifying millions of voters against them.

obviously the illegals are a critical part of the economy - i can see that in my own neighborhood. i think they should apply the Cuba rule - seal the borders, but if you're already here or can make it in, you can stay.

[albed]

Just because you haven't noticed it before doesn't mean it's just been born knife.


Note how they're so open about their intentions to fraudulently vote. I guess the unwillingness of the government to enforce immigration law has bred complete contempt for any law. What wonderful citizens they'll make.

instead they succeeded in mobilizing and unifying millions of voters against them.

Illegals can vote?

[theknife]

What wonderful citizens they'll make.

they'll make great citizens - just like the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese and every other immigrant group before them. their kids will assimilate and help lead the next generation, like every group before them. and the arguments raised against them will prove to be unfounded, as has been the case with every immigrant group before them.

Originally Posted by Hegemonic

Illegals can vote?

the first US soldier to be killed in Iraq was a Mexican citizen, brought into the country by illegal immigrant parents. U.S. Marine Jose Angel Garibay didn't have the right to vote but the government had no problem sending him off to die in Iraq for no apparent reason. ironic, huh?

edit: my mistake - Jose was the first Orange County CA soldier killed. another Jose was the first soldier killed in Iraq:

In 1995, Jose Gutierrez was a 14-year-old orphan in Guatemala when he decided to do what 700,000 other Guatemalans had done -- enter the United States illegally. Two thousand miles and 14 freight trains later, Gutierrez crossed the border. He was promptly arrested by the Border Patrol. Being a minor and without a family, he was spared deportation and turned over to California's welfare system. He spent the next four years in foster homes, learning English, attending and graduating high school, getting his medical needs taken care of by the public-health system. As the lexicon of neo-flag-wavers would put it, Gutierrez was freeloading on the American taxpayer.

When he turned 18, Gutierrez got himself a green card. He planned to be an architect. Not quite having the means yet, in 2002 he joined the Marines. A year later he found himself shipping off to Kuwait. And in the first hours on the first day of the Iraq invasion, he was killed on the outskirts of Umm Qasr, just inside the Iraqi border. He was the first of 2,322 Americans (so far) to be killed in the war. He is, as the lexicon of neo-flag-wavers likes to say, a hero, a patriot, among America's finest.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/

[albed]

Anyone can vote if they have the right counterfeited documents. All the illegal immigrants have created a booming counterfeiting industry that terrorists have tapped into to help them accomplish their murders.


As usual, seditious factions of the government have prevented a solution.

Originally Posted by theknife

the first US soldier to be killed in Iraq was a Mexican citizen, brought into the country by illegal immigrant parents. U.S. Marine Jose Angel Garibay didn't have the right to vote but the government had no problem sending him off to die in Iraq for no apparent reason. ironic, huh?

And? He volunteered. He wasn't illegal, he just wasn't a citizen as of yet. It's not out of the ordinary.

[multi]

illegal immigrants have created a booming counterfeiting industry that terrorists have tapped into to help them accomplish their murders.

apart from 911 what murders ?

the first WTC bombing perhaps..
Washington sniper ?

Why is it necessary to keep illegal aliens from getting drivers' licenses and "driving certificates"?

Because a driver's license or certificate is a terrorist's tool.

Drivers' licenses were the "valid IDs" that got the terrorists on the planes they used to murder our loved ones. The 9/11 terrorists possessed among them sixty-three authentic U.S.-issued licenses. These were the "valid ID's" that allowed them to board the planes that they used to commit mass murder. Although "driving certificates" did not exist at the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, early experience from Tennessee establishes that they are accepted by airlines for boarding airplanes.

Drivers' licenses did more for the terrorists besides allowing them to board the planes. Drivers' licenses were the tools that allowed them to blend in as just ordinary Americans.
http://www.911fsafoundation.org/issu..._licenses.html

In 2002, a dozen American college students, in Mexico legally, participated peacefully in an environmental protest against a planned airport outside of Mexico City. They swiftly found themselves deported as law-breakers for interfering in Mexico’s internal affairs. - link

Mayhaps it's time for a little quid pro quo?

[albed]

Oh no, theknife's "great citizens" are being rounded up and deported!

1,187 illegal immigrant workers and 7 of their exploiters arrested.

a company employee at the Guilderland plant called ICE agents to report that he had seen Hispanic workers ripping up W-2 forms. The employee said a manger told him that the Hispanics were illegal aliens, had fake Social Security cards and did not intend to file their taxes.

They love the U.S. so much they break its laws as they please and won't even pay its taxes. Great citizens alright.

The 7 Houston-based IFCO Systems North America Inc. supervisors could face a maximum 10-year prison sentence and a fine of up to $250,000 for each alien for conspiring to transport and harbor illegal aliens for commercial and financial gain.
Robert Belvin, 43, Clifton Park, N.Y.
Abelino "Lino" Chicas, 40, Houston
James Rice, 36, Houston
William "Billy" Hoskins, 29, Cincinnati
Michael Ames, 44, Shrewsbury, Mass
Dario Salzano, 36, Amsterdam, N.Y.
Scott Dodge, 43, of Amsterdam

I wonder if the illegal immigrant community will rally to support their benefactors with generous contributions to a defense fund?

Not likely. They're in the U.S. to take, not to give.

[dumwaldo]

The United States of America was founded by immigrants. That being the case, one could argue that the foundation of the USA is immigration. At the very least, immigration is a profoundly important part of our society.

The problem is not with the people that are coming to america, the problem is with a system that has broken down to the point that it has failed them. I do not see the solutions to America's immigration woe's in attacking the immigrants. I believe the solution is in stricter and stronger laws against the people that profit from the opression of immigrants.

Slumlords that 'turn a blind eye' to 15 and 20 people sharing a single bedroom living space need to be held accountable. Companies that employ immigrant labor for unreported cash wages need to be held accounatble. 'People smuggling' orginazations that dump unprepared and ill informed people on american shores need to be held accountable.

More than any of the above, the United States Department of Immigration and Naturalization needs to be held accountable for a system that has convoluted itself so much that legal immigration is an impossibility for some despite years or even decades of vigilante attempts.

The borders are not the problem. What happens to millions of immigrants once they cross the border is the problem. If these willing spirits were embraced rather than greeted with hostility and bureaucracy, there would be far fewer people working for sub standard wages only to send the money out of the country to support a family they can not bring here.

Peace out,
dumwaldo

[Mazer]

What about the illegal immigrants who use faked-up documents to register to vote, or who recieve food stamps and welfare? What about illegal immigrants who break laws then flee to Mexico for asylum? Are these people not also part of the problem?

[albed]

The system isn't "broken" like all the worthless politicians say, the government is. It won't enforce its own laws because of its corruption.

The illegals wouldn't come to the U.S. if it weren't for employers eager to hire them for substandard wages and unsafe working conditions that the government agencies turn a blind eye to. Or for the free(to them) health care, education, welfare benefits, and automatic citizenship to U.S. born children.


My libertarian views are that anyone should be free to go where they want and do what they want within reason, but taking from others should be forbidden.

A century ago immigrants paid their own way and worked their way up the income ladder and made the country better but now illegal immigrants take, with the help of the corrupt government, many things that american citizens have paid for; medical care, education, housing, food, the justice system, etc.

They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

[dumwaldo]

Originally Posted by albed

They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

Or they are a blessing that the United States would not have existed without.

The examples offered are an exageration of a very minute minority. I am confident in saying there are more american born people defrauding public agencies than there are illegal aliens.

A century ago imigrants came to this country and found citizenship in a matter of days. Currently a potential citizen has a minimum wait time of at least 7 years. A century ago imigrants came to america with nothing but a desire to be american and they were granted citizenship. Currently an individual needs a purpose greater than personal enrichment as well as someone who will offer 'sponsorship'.

Please do not take this as any type of personal attack or insult but comparing immigration of a century ago with the current disgracefull state of immigration is simply ignorant.

I still maintain the immigrants are not the problem, the hostility displayed by american people and politicians is the problem. Maybe we should just give the reins back to the native americans and they can kick us all out of THEIR country.

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

The problem is not with the people that are coming to america, the problem is with a system that has broken down to the point that it has failed them. I do not see the solutions to America's immigration woe's in attacking the immigrants. I believe the solution is in stricter and stronger laws against the people that profit from the opression of immigrants.

I can't help but notice you didn't use the word "illegal" once in your screed, wonder why that is?

No one is "attacking immigrants", but people are rightfully attacking illegal lawbreakers that flaunt their ability to circumvent our borders.

So lets break it down since you seem to be confused:

immigrant = good

illegal immigrant = bad

Also your "solution" is a joke.

"Hey Juan we can't hop the border, the man that will hire us will get in trouble!"

Yeah, that will surely solve the illegal immigration problem! American laws haven't stopped them yet, why do you think cracking down on Americans will somehow stop Mexicans from coming here illegally?

[albed]

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

A century ago imigrants came to this country and found citizenship in a matter of days. Currently a potential citizen has a minimum wait time of at least 7 years. A century ago imigrants came to america with nothing but a desire to be american and they were granted citizenship. Currently an individual needs a purpose greater than personal enrichment as well as someone who will offer 'sponsorship'.

Please do not take this as any type of personal attack or insult but comparing immigration of a century ago with the current disgracefull state of immigration is simply ignorant.

So you're comparing the immigration of a century ago with the current to prove you're ignorant? That makes sense.

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

Maybe we should just give the reins back to the native americans and they can kick us all out of THEIR country.

I think your hippie history class has misinformed you. Native americans never built a country and they were fighting, stealing, enslaving and killing each other long before europeans came over to join the fray.