Mayor Nagin transcript

[theknife]

Originally Posted by daddydirt

O’Brien>> What date was this?

N>> I don't know.

O>> When did you say that?

N>> Whenever air force one was here.

so that conversation took place on Fridy August 2nd - 6 days after the NWS warning, 5 days after the levee broke. a bit late, no?

Originally Posted by drakonix

The use of public transportation for such evacuations is in the emergency plan of every city with such resources available. I have been a volunteer disaster service worker in Alameda County, California for over 30 years.

so you must have been in the SF '89 earthquake - so was i. i have a pretty good impression of that recovery, and have also seen FEMA do some good things as well here in Hurricane Alley, NC. so, i'll make this my last thought on the subject as well - katrina was big, well-anticipated, and as devastating as any terrorist attack on the largest port in the country. the response and recovery should have been strong, well-planned and federally managed from day 1. that's what Homeland Security was supposed to do, why we created this vast new bureacracy that ate FEMA. obviously, it did not go down that way.

[chefws]

Originally Posted by Drakonix

I'll make one last post on this subject. For me, beyond this point any more discussion is futile.

For those who think President Bush and/or the Federal Government is to blame for a poor relief effort in the wake of hurricane Katrina in Louisiana, this post is for you.

New Orleans Mayor Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of his city in advance of hurricane Katrina's landfall.

See the picture of the busses in the post by jcmd62 in this thread?
These are the busses that Mayor Nagin could have, but did not use to evacuate people from New Orleans. He could have used them to help evacuate people that had no other means to leave the city. They could have been taken to the superdome or convention center, or other shelters. Now, many of those people are DEAD.

As I understand it, chartered busses were used to evacuate people to places like the Astrodome.

The use of public transportation for such evacuations is in the emergency plan of every city with such resources available. I have been a volunteer disaster service worker in Alameda County, California for over 30 years. I also worked for a large public transit agency for 10 years and have first hand knowledge of how such emergency arrangements work, because I have been a part of them.

Now, look at the post by daddydirt above and see how Louisiana Governor Blanco refused to cooperate with the Federal Government. The Governor of a State has command of National Guard and Local Emergency Services - but not Federal Emergency Services. The Feds want to assume command of the overall effort so it can be uniformly coordinated. Governor Blanco has so far refused to allow that to happen.

Why is Governor Blanco doing this? According to reports I have read by MSNBC, Governor Blanco is afraid of Federally declared martial law and the fear of local officials being "blamed" for inadequate action by the Federal government. Hmmm... I thought the restoration of law and order is one of the things Blanco wanted. I would be willing to wager most of her population wants this as well.

As for the "blame" befalling local officials (such as herself) I think Blanco is doing a pretty good job at attracing blame without any assistance from the Federal Government.

Trying to avoid martial law where it may be necessary and avoiding blame do not sound to me like valid reasons to withold vital emergency services from the population after a major disaster.

So, while Governor Blanco "thinks" about what to do next, more of the people she has sworn to protect are dying. When people are dying it's usually not a good idea to get into a pissing contest about who gives the orders - especially when Louisiana State Emergency Services is not capable of handling a disaster of this magnatude by itself.

Emergency Services personnel are supposed to undergo training and familiarization with procedures so that when real disasters happen, they know what to do and can inter-operate with other agencies in an efficient and effective manner. Apparently, "key personnel" missed that type training.

I can excuse most of Mayor Nagin's unprofessional demenor and language. The guy is human like the rest of us, and he's going through unimaginable distress seeing his people dying and in need and not being able to help them. However, I find it considerably more difficult to excuse his failure to use resources available to him for getting everyone possible out of the city before the hurricane hit.

If Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco had done what they were supposed to do, many lives could have been saved, and the disaster relief efforts would have had better coordination from the start.

I would criticize President Bush if I felt he had done something wrong in this matter, but I prefer to place blame where it is due.

Thank you so much, I could not have said it better.

[chefws]

Hey theknife,
That was pre-Homeland Security when they cleaned up after Hugo. There are still ongoing programs that are building up the homes in the affected area of North Carolina.
The Mayor had the resposibility PRE disaster to remove the citizens, FEMA has POST disaster resposibilty. And considering what the Governor and the Mayor did NOT do, I thnk FEMA is doing an outstanding job. The job should have been much smaller in scale.
pz

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by theknife

so that conversation took place on Fridy August 2nd - 6 days after the NWS warning, 5 days after the levee broke. a bit late, no?

Like chef and Drak have explained, had the local authorities done what was in their power to do, this meeting would not have been necessary.

All I've heard over the last week are people who already disliked or hated the president using this event as an excuse to dislike or hate him more. People are using this opportunity to bash Bush the way some people have used this opportunity to break into jewelery stores.

Just a quick qestion for anybody who cares to answer: when you hear the term 'first responder' who comes to mind?

[albed]

Here's another quick question: Does theknife know the difference between August and September?

[theknife]

apparently not.

money quote of the week:

Jefferson Parish president Aaron Broussard was even more blunt.

"Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area," he said on CBS's "Early Show".

"Take whatever idiot they have at the top of whatever agency and give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot."

[chefws]

Originally Posted by theknife

apparently not.

money quote of the week:

Aaron Broussard has lost it this time. The residents that I have talked to want him dismissed immediately.
He will single handedly foul most of the recovery and remaining evacuations by allowing the residents back in for a "peek" of there property.
Guess what? They ain't going to leave, not for a minute.
The influx of the Jeff Parish residents will have Orleans Parish residents hell bent on staying. It will be anarchy.
Real soon, the US Marines will be deployed to forcefully evacuate the Orleans Parish residents.
Just imagine the bedlam this will cause.
Aaron Broussard is the idiot. Trust me, he has lost it, and will lose all because of it.

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by chefws

Aaron Broussard has lost it this time. The residents that I have talked to want him dismissed immediately.
He will single handedly foul most of the recovery and remaining evacuations by allowing the residents back in for a "peek" of there property.
Guess what? They ain't going to leave, not for a minute.
The influx of the Jeff Parish residents will have Orleans Parish residents hell bent on staying. It will be anarchy.
Real soon, the US Marines will be deployed to forcefully evacuate the Orleans Parish residents.
Just imagine the bedlam this will cause.
Aaron Broussard is the idiot. Trust me, he has lost it, and will lose all because of it.

chefws, the army isn't having any part of any forced evacuations. these people own property. they are citizens. the broussards of the world work for them, the army works for the citizens. not the other way around. long before we had a cop on every corner we had self-governing communities. with states assets and power for leverage it'll come together. try to calm down a little. it will work out. this isn't the end of the world. it's not even the end of new orleans.

- js.

[Drakonix]

The Police/Army/National Guard will force people to evacuate when it is clearly dangerous for people to remain in a disaster area - and such a danger exists in New Orleans due to water borne pathogens.

Tests show that sewage and dangerous levels of harmful bacteria are present in the flood waters. The flood water is sufficiently polluted to be a skin contact hazard. Disinfecting the water before pumping it into the lake or river will not be reasonably possible.

They are trying to convince everyone to leave. Those who will go willingly will be assisted out first. Eventually, they will have to evacuate the unwilling forcefully. This is very unfortunate, but clearly a necessity.

Bacterial infection from storm surge driven by the hurricane is already blamed for 5 deaths. Add to that coliform bacteria from sewage, bacteria from decomposing bodies, and hazardous chemicals and you have a serious health hazard.

Yes, it will work out in due time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9242497/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9241863/

[albed]

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

chefws, the army isn't having any part of any forced evacuations. these people own property. they are citizens. the broussards of the world work for them, the army works for the citizens. not the other way around. long before we had a cop on every corner we had self-governing communities. with states assets and power for leverage it'll come together. try to calm down a little. it will work out. this isn't the end of the world. it's not even the end of new orleans.

- js.

Heheh. A little post for you to eat Jack. Martial law changes things.

No doubt the name "New Orleans" will live on but the old city bearing it now may essentially end.

[chefws]

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

chefws, the army isn't having any part of any forced evacuations. these people own property. they are citizens. the broussards of the world work for them, the army works for the citizens. not the other way around. long before we had a cop on every corner we had self-governing communities. with states assets and power for leverage it'll come together. try to calm down a little. it will work out. this isn't the end of the world. it's not even the end of new orleans.

- js.

Mayor orders forced removal of civilians

Mayor Ray Nagin today issued an emergency proclamation calling on all law officers and military members to begin using force, if necessary to compel all civilians to leave New Orleans.

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakin...005_09_06.html

Published yesterday morning, but the Governor says he doesn't have the authority, only she does. More Louisiana political bullshit that will eventually cost more lives. The remaining people need to be forced out. Period.
They do not understand that their lives are worth more than their home, not their land, but the stick and stones. They fear that if the leave, they will never return. It is that fear that makes them stay. THIS IS THE PROBLEM!!!! They don't understand that they are WORTH SOMETHING!!!!! They have been told all their lives that they are worthless, make them leave and let them realize that they ARE worth the world.

[chefws]

btw, Broussard is the Parish President of Jefferson Parish, which is a self-sufficient suburb of the city. It is not relavent to the forced evacuations, except for the fact that he let the citizens return to their homes prematurely, which will cause problems when the citizens of New Orleans are forcefully evacuated.

Jefferson Parish is as different to New Orleans as is Dallas to San Fransico, in many ways.

[jcmd62]

Fuk wasting time, energy, resources and the inevitable violence forcing those that refuse to leave to get out.

If they haven't left and CHOOSE to stay and live without electricity, under martial law where they know and are fully aware they could be shot for "finding/looting/borrowing" even necessities, or hindering rescue/rebuilding efforts then fuk them and concentrate on pumping the city out and restoring power. Kill anybody not helping the situation. The rest who refuse to leave will surely start lending a helping hand given the only other option is death for hindering progress.

If these hard heads survive then more power to them and if they don't then their shit gets bull dozed or looted anyway and they died for NOTHING.

[albed]

Originally Posted by jcmd62

Fuk wasting time, energy, resources and the inevitable violence forcing those that refuse to leave to get out.

If they haven't left and CHOOSE to stay and live without electricity, under martial law where they know and are fully aware they could be shot for "finding/looting/borrowing" even necessities, or hindering rescue/rebuilding efforts then fuk them and concentrate on pumping the city out and restoring power. Kill anybody not helping the situation. The rest who refuse to leave will surely start lending a helping hand given the only other option is death for hindering progress.

If these hard heads survive then more power to them and if they don't then their shit gets bull dozed or looted anyway and they died for NOTHING.

Jeeze you're a mean fucking drunk jc! Killing people for not helping you is called murder; martial law or not.

You must miss the good old concentration camp and gulag days.

[miss_silver]

Your reply are getting age old here, everybody is a god damned drunk beside you eh? Or a monkey bong sucker, that is also an age old reply coming from your narrow side of the world.

Take a chill pill and if you get bored out of your mind again, go trash my name at the tehru again, they didn't pay any notice to your little anal-ology rant, not even squishy. IMO, you are a little pathetic man with nothing else to do but bitch and troll

Keep going, this way you are digging you grave much sooner than expected. to my great pleasure that is

Keep spinning troll boy

[albed]

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Take a chill pill and if you get bored out of your mind again, go trash my name at the tehru again, they didn't pay any notice to your little anal-ology rant, not even squishy.

Are you saying your name really is Sasquatch?; since that's the only name I mentioned. No wonder you're so fucked up. What else did your parents do to you?

[albed]

Howard Dean tries playing the race card with Katrina victims.


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12586210.htm
Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday sought to turn the chaos of Hurricane Katrina into a benefit for Democrats, decrying Republican priorities and telling black pastors in Miami that race played a ''significant role'' in the storm's death toll.



Who didn't see that coming?

Maybe he'll try for a photo op with some rotting corpses. Go for it Howard.


New link, second line with "miami herald".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...oogle+Se arch

[multi]

500 Airboaters stalled by FEMA

A "floatilla of aid" TURNED BACK from New Orleans

Fearing riots, Guard rejects food airdrops

Homeland Security won’t let Red Cross deliver food

US won’t let Canada help Katrina victims

On BBC: Northern Command was in position, waiting for Presidential orders

Confirmation of BBC report: Navy Ship still unused 6 Days after Katrina!

Daley ’shocked’ as feds reject aid

Virgina Team turned away- others efforts wasted

FEMA prevents water, fuel delivery- cuts communication lines!

Paperwork from DC late to arrive- prevents National Guard from helping

Guardsmen ’played cards’ amid New Orleans chaos: police official

FEMA Chief Brown caught in a LIE.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=8066

[multi]

Will the "New" New Orleans be Black?

[jcmd62]

Originally Posted by albed

Jeeze you're a mean fucking drunk jc! Killing people for not helping you is called murder; martial law or not.

You must miss the good old concentration camp and gulag days.

Ahh yes... Those were the good old days