where have all the liberals gone?

[albed]

With Ramona's departure I'm inclined to wonder 'where have all the liberals gone?'.

Still plenty of sniping at Bush's policies but never any liberal alternatives.

No more defense of taking money from people who earn it and giving it to people who don't.

No more clamoring for reducing military spending and increasing welfare spending.

No more arguments for giving compassion to criminals instead of punishment.

Do liberals today stand for anything except opposing conservatives?

Does anyone here still embrace liberal values?







PS. Does the "BTK Killer" Dennis Rader make anyone else think of Ramona? It's been nagging at me for a long time.

[legion]

Originally Posted by albed

With Ramona's departure I'm inclined to wonder 'where have all the liberals gone?'.

still here! just lurking

Still plenty of sniping at Bush's policies but never any liberal alternatives.

Bush just sux .. there happy now ?

No more defense of taking money from people who earn it and giving it to people who don't.

isn't it just weird that you peeps spent more on defense than on health, welfare and education combined?

No more clamoring for reducing military spending and increasing welfare spending.

read above

No more arguments for giving compassion to criminals instead of punishment.

One day they walk out of prison, so why turn them into f*cked up buffed up screwed up murdering mindless droids

Do liberals today stand for anything except opposing conservatives?

NO!

Does anyone here still embrace liberal values?

YES!

i don't hate republicans, i am just indifferent same result, less effort

[Nicobie]

she mostly ran off at the mouth.

T'was fun.

[albed]

Originally Posted by toy boy

isn't it just weird that you peeps spent more on defense than on health, welfare and education combined?

No. I've probably spent more on guns and ammo myself than on books, magazines, plus medical/dental expenses.

But unlike you, I have the freedom to do that dont' I?

Originally Posted by toy boy

One day they walk out of prison, so why turn them into f*cked up buffed up screwed up murdering mindless droids

So we'll have a reason to execute them later.

It should be done sooner but it's the damn liberals you know.

Originally Posted by toy boy

i don't hate republicans, i am just indifferent same result, less effort

Lazy.

[legion]

Originally Posted by albed

No. I've probably spent more on guns and ammo myself than on books, magazines, plus medical/dental expenses.

But unlike you, I have the freedom to do that dont' I?

True, i can't buy guns legally here unless you are a member of a gun club. but guess what? I like it that way.

Originally Posted by albed

So we'll have a reason to execute them later.

It should be done sooner but it's the damn liberals you know.

Yeah we value life ... any life for that matter of fact. silly us

Originally Posted by albed

Lazy.

True again! you are on a roll tonight

[albed]

Originally Posted by toy boy

Yeah we value life ... any life for that matter of fact. silly us

Silly alright. Once some scumbag rapes your daughter or beats you half to death for your wallet, maybe you'll start distinguishing between lives you should value and lives you should eliminate for the good of humanity.



But when your government disarms you and renders you helpless it really doesn't matter what you value. You just have to hope that your life is valued. Good luck.

[Mazer]

albed, you know you can troll conservatives too, like you used to do with me. The real challenge, of course, is figuring out how to discredit somebody who agrees with you without labeling them a liar.

It's like you don't even try anymore.

[albed]

Set yourself up again then dude. When I caught you lying I let you know and it was no challenge at all; A raffle is gambling, soldiers do refuse to fight in the US army, Roe v Wade restricts the government instead of the citizens so it's not legislating by the court, the US occupied all of Japan after WW2, not just Okinawa.

You're easy. I know liberals are generally liars but I don't cut conservatives any slack because conservatives don't have to lie. You just do it because you don't have the knowledge.

I do.

So watch out.

[legion]

Originally Posted by albed

Silly alright. Once some scumbag rapes your daughter or beats you half to death for your wallet, maybe you'll start distinguishing between lives you should value and lives you should eliminate for the good of humanity.

Oh yeah that's right i have never been confronted with crime ... lemme see ... in my old job i had treats on life about each and every day ... some jerk tried to rob me from my wallet early in the morning in a park by knife point ... some jerk broke into my house ... i got beat up once or twice (admitted i was drunk and pretty much asking for it.)

still i am here, i am not afraid to go outside and have fun, i still don't lock the doors at night and i am not mentally damaged (well not by crime anyways ) and still i am happy and don't own a gun.
I just don't think that every illegal act has to be met with capital punishment, not even rape. Maybe women beg to differ?

But even you Albed have to agree with me that capital punishment doesn't work. Are all the death rows in America empty? how much crime was prevented because the state could fry your ass? If i am allowed to have a guess from my side of the pond, pretty much NONE!!!

But when your government disarms you and renders you helpless it really doesn't matter what you value. You just have to hope that your life is valued. Good luck.

Some truth in there just al little to black and white. Yes my Gov. does reneders me unarmed on the other hand not every assholes who is willing to steal place empty walks in at night carrying a piece nor does every asshole who tries to rob me in the park will put a gun in my face.
See, there are two sides on a medal

[MissingLink]

I just don't see why carrying a gun is a good thing.
There's a lot of hate in this world and sure... maybe I would feel safer. But it's too easy to pull the trigger and end a human life. Think about it...
I could be killed by now because some idiot got his/her hands on a gun. There are a lot of sick minds running around, when these people can get this kind of power this easily, they would use it too. Even when they get caught and are convicted, you still lost someone close to you, or leaving your family behind.

So please tell me again why this is a good thing...

[theknife]

Originally Posted by toy boy

But even you Albed have to agree with me that capital punishment doesn't work. Are all the death rows in America empty? how much crime was prevented because the state could fry your ass? If i am allowed to have a guess from my side of the pond, pretty much NONE!!!

the recidivism rate among all released convicts averages 20%-30%. the recidivism rate among executed offenders is zero.

so, when applied righteously, capital punishment works pretty well.

[albed]

Originally Posted by toy boy

Oh yeah that's right i have never been confronted with crime ... lemme see ... in my old job i had treats on life about each and every day ... some jerk tried to rob me from my wallet early in the morning in a park by knife point

So how did that turn out? Did you give him a warm compassionate hug? Or did you start thinking the world would be a better place if he were dead?

Originally Posted by toy boy

some jerk broke into my house

Originally Posted by toy boy

i still don't lock the doors at night

Something isn't quite right in your head dude; unless the door or window is your most valuable possession.

Originally Posted by toy boy

and still i am happy and don't own a gun.

And you can be just as happy owning a gun. The difference is freedom.

Originally Posted by toy boy

I just don't think that every illegal act has to be met with capital punishment,

Who does?

Originally Posted by toy boy

But even you Albed have to agree with me that capital punishment doesn't work.

No I don't.

Originally Posted by toy boy

Are all the death rows in America empty? how much crime was prevented because the state could fry your ass? If i am allowed to have a guess from my side of the pond, pretty much NONE!!!

If your only concern is preventing crime then no post facto action is going to work. You'll have to take freedom away from a society. Some people don't like that.

Originally Posted by toy boy

Some truth in there just al little to black and white. Yes my Gov. does reneders me unarmed on the other hand not every assholes who is willing to steal place empty walks in at night carrying a piece nor does every asshole who tries to rob me in the park will put a gun in my face.
See, there are two sides on a medal

Yes there is. You seem concerned with not having a gun involved in your robbery while I'd rather there be no robbery at all.

[albed]

Originally Posted by MissingLink

I just don't see why carrying a gun is a good thing.
There's a lot of hate in this world and sure... maybe I would feel safer. But it's too easy to pull the trigger and end a human life. Think about it...
I could be killed by now because some idiot got his/her hands on a gun. There are a lot of sick minds running around, when these people can get this kind of power this easily, they would use it too. Even when they get caught and are convicted, you still lost someone close to you, or leaving your family behind.

So please tell me again why this is a good thing...

I never said carrying a gun is a 'good thing'. I think the 'good thing' in your case would be getting rid of the 'sick minds running around'. How can you feel safe in your house when they can buy gasoline without any government restrictions? How can you feel safe walking down a sidewalk when they can yank the steering wheel of their car and end your life?

Freedom to me is the 'good thing'. If you think your personal circumstances require owning a gun you'd be able to. But when a government treats all it's citizens as potential criminals it's an insult and an injustice.

[legion]

Originally Posted by albed

So how did that turn out? Did you give him a warm compassionate hug? Or did you start thinking the world would be a better place if he were dead?

No, i kicked his ass!

Something isn't quite right in your head dude; unless the door or window is your most valuable possession.

should i be scared coz some fuckhead threatened me once or twice? have 6 locks on my door so I can feel safe?? I don’t think so!

And you can be just as happy owning a gun. The difference is freedom.

Name me one country where personal freedom is larger than right here in the netherlands and i will give you points for this one! so imho the gun ownership is a small sacrifice to make.

Who does?

in a way you did: So how did that turn out? Did you give him a warm compassionate hug? Or did you start thinking the world would be a better place if he were dead?

No I don't.If your only concern is preventing crime then no post facto action is going to work.

touche, that one is yours

Yes there is. You seem concerned with not having a gun involved in your robbery while I'd rather there be no robbery at all.

Only in a perfect world, which is not the world we live in.


@The Knive, recidivism might be zero if you are willing to trade in a little bit of your humanity. The death certificate of some one who just got KILLED by lethal injection, gas chamber or by what ever means the inmate's live was TERMINATED, clearly states MURDER!!!! All done in your name too. (provided you live in a state that does have capital punishment) Indeed i would be proud of that too

[theknife]

Originally Posted by toy boy

@The Knive, recidivism might be zero if you are willing to trade in a little bit of your humanity. The death certificate of some one who just got KILLED by lethal injection, gas chamber or by what ever means the inmate's live was TERMINATED, clearly states MURDER!!!! All done in your name too. (provided you live in a state that does have capital punishment) Indeed i would be proud of that too

i'm a little more practical about it, TB - my personal experience has been that there are people in this world who are truly dangerous predators, who will always be an immediate threat to thier neighbors and thier community and anyone unlucky enough to cross their path. people who look for opportunities to harm others, have killed and maimed and will do so again without hesitation.

so i do not think it is inhumane to kill people who are a permanent threat to thier fellow human beings - execution is simply the only way to ensure a repeat proven killer will not kill again.

[legion]

Originally Posted by theknife

i'm a little more practical about it, TB - my personal experience has been that there are people in this world who are truly dangerous predators, who will always be an immediate threat to thier neighbors and thier community and anyone unlucky enough to cross their path. people who look for opportunities to harm others, have killed and maimed and will do so again without hesitation.

so i do not think it is inhumane to kill people who are a permanent threat to thier fellow human beings - execution is simply the only way to ensure a repeat proven killer will not kill again.

Personally I think life in jail is much more of a punishment than death. I can only imagine what 50,60,70 years of climbing the walls of his/her cell must be like. Plain torture if you ask me.

Hey, I just lost some of my liberal views

[albed]

Originally Posted by toy boy

No, i kicked his ass!

That is not approved liberal behaviour.

Do you have some macho ego hyperinflation? It's common fucking sense. You have people around who break into houses....respond accordingly.

Originally Posted by toy boy

Name me one country where personal freedom is larger than right here in the netherlands and i will give you points for this one! so imho the gun ownership is a small sacrifice to make.

Yeah you can buy drugs and whores legally, good for you. Defending the lives and property of your family and your neighbors just isn't significant in your country is it? Wow, am I jealous.

Originally Posted by toy boy

Only in a perfect world, which is not the world we live in.

I don't try for a perfect world, just a better one. You're apparently content with the occasional robbery and home break-in, I'm not.

Originally Posted by toy boy

@The Knive, recidivism might be zero if you are willing to trade in a little bit of your humanity. The death certificate of some one who just got KILLED by lethal injection, gas chamber or by what ever means the inmate's live was TERMINATED, clearly states MURDER!!!! All done in your name too. (provided you live in a state that does have capital punishment) Indeed i would be proud of that too

http://www.answers.com/murder&r=67

Murder:#1 The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

You're flat out lying there toy boy. The execution of murderers in the US is the most lawful killing you'll ever find.





I'm starting to suspect theknife is a closet conservative.

Originally Posted by toy boy

Personally I think life in jail is much more of a punishment than death. I can only imagine what 50,60,70 years of climbing the walls of his/her cell must be like. Plain torture if you ask me.

Hey, I just lost some of my liberal views

The criminals themselves almost always disagree with your sadistic view and prefer life in prison instead of death.

[legion]

Originally Posted by albed

That is not approved liberal behaviour.

tough! I do have the right to defend myself and i exercised my right.

Do you have some macho ego hyperinflation? It's common fucking sense. You have people around who break into houses....respond accordingly.

If you think 6 locks on your door is responding accordingly go for it albed, I think it is paranoid.

Yeah you can buy drugs and whores legally, good for you. Defending the lives and property of your family and your neighbors just isn't significant in your country is it? Wow, am I jealous.

HAHAHAHA I can defend my neighbors, my property and my family. I just can't do it by pumping a few rounds of hot lead into someones head.

I don't try for a perfect world, just a better one. You're apparently content with the occasional robbery and home break-in, I'm not.

Not what i said albed you are reaching !

http://www.answers.com/murder&r=67

Murder:#1 The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

I admit that english is only my second language and limited at best however i know what murder means but thanks for the education.

You're flat out lying there toy boy. The execution of murderers in the US is the most lawful killing you'll ever find.

author:unknown

Testimony taken in committee 03/03/2005 H Left pending in
committee
Relating to showing the cause of death on the death certificate of
an inmate of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice who is
lawfully executed.
Current death certificates of executed people list cause of death as
"Homicide".

Again you are reaching Albed. Call me a liar all you want, actually it is kinda cute

I'm starting to suspect theknife is a closet conservative.

Yeah but it is hard to come out when one is surrounded by people like you (j/k)

The criminals themselves almost always disagree with your sadistic view and prefer life in prison instead of death.

doesn't change the fact that i think of it as a far greater punishment than death.


edits: those damn typos again

[MissingLink]

Originally Posted by albed

I never said carrying a gun is a 'good thing'. I think the 'good thing' in your case would be getting rid of the 'sick minds running around'. How can you feel safe in your house when they can buy gasoline without any government restrictions? How can you feel safe walking down a sidewalk when they can yank the steering wheel of their car and end your life?

How the hell can you feel safe when airplanes are flying overhead, how can you feel safe while trains filled with nuclear waste or toxic chemicals are being driven through your state? How on earth CAN a gun protect you from an idiot that will yank the steering wheel of his car? Are you going vigilante on him? Are you going to shoot him? Provided you have your gun neatly tucked away under your armpit in the first place?
I can feel safe because I don’t think that my number has come up all the time, I can feel safe because I don’t have to look over my shoulder to see if some one sneaks up on me with a gun!

Of course I would like to see those sick minds of the street as much as you do but it isn’t up to me to do that. That is up to the legal system however flawed it may be.
Besides that every society has its fair share of idiots. No amount of guns in your house will prevent that.

Originally Posted by albed

Freedom to me is the 'good thing'. If you think your personal circumstances require owning a gun you'd be able to. But when a government treats all it's citizens as potential criminals it's an insult and an injustice.

Ah I see, that must be the reason why cops in America walkup to a car he/she just pulled over with his/her hand on his/her gun! Clearly a representative of the government and clearly he/she doesn’t think you are a criminal.
You see albed over here when a cop pulls me over he gets out of his car with his hands stretched out in order to shake mine, a true insult and serious injustice I must say.

[albed]

Leaving your door unlocked at night even after a break-in certainly seems to indicate contentment.

Originally Posted by toy boy

I admit that english is only my second language and limited at best however i know what murder means but thanks for the education.



author:unknown

Testimony taken in committee 03/03/2005 H Left pending in
committee
Relating to showing the cause of death on the death certificate of
an inmate of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice who is
lawfully executed.
Current death certificates of executed people list cause of death as
"Homicide".

Again you are reaching Albed. Call me a liar all you want, actually it is kinda cute

Now "homicide" is the truth; "murder" was a lie. Understand the difference?

Heck no, you're a liberal.