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Old 09-12-04, 06:55 AM   #1
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Default Rumsfeld Encounters Friendly Fire

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...=la-home-world

WASHINGTON — Anxious troops awaiting deployment to Iraq peppered Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld with questions Wednesday during his brief visit to their camp in the Kuwaiti desert, demanding to know why U.S. forces were still being sent with insufficient protection against deadly insurgents.

[i]"Our vehicles are not armored. We're digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass … to put on our vehicles to take into combat," said one Iraq-bound soldier, whom Associated Press identified as Spc. Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee National Guard.

"As you know, you go to war with the army you have," Rumsfeld said. "They're not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time



Rumsfeld seems to has a nonchalant attitude about the concerns these soldiers bring up. Not too reassuring from the #2 guy in charge of the war. The least our leaders can do when they send those soldiers to war is give them the tools to do their job instead of running like a mom & pop operation.

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Old 09-12-04, 07:36 AM   #2
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Quote:
DONALD RUMSFELD: Now settle down, settle down…

(Audience laughter)

Hell, I'm an old man, and it's early in the morning, I'm just gathering my thoughts here.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...4/s1261546.htm
they missed that bit..
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Old 09-12-04, 08:09 AM   #3
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Gah, I hate it when politicians joke about the fact that they bullshit or have to make up excuses. I hate it even more when people go along with it.

RUMSFELD: "Hell, I'm an old man, and it's early in the morning, I'm just gathering my thoughts here..."

AUDIENCE: "Then get out of office you senile fuck..."

It's always the same old story. When journalists and media types ask 'difficult' questions, there's always a get-out clause or a way of wiggling out of a straight answer. When a stoic member of the public (or better yet, a steely-eyed, pissed-off soldier) asks the same question in a forthright and straightforward manner, the politician can't answer... stalling for time, telling jokes.

Christ, he makes Clinton look appealing.
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Old 09-12-04, 08:40 AM   #4
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you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
if i am not mistaken he may as well say something like:
take what you are given and stfu..
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Old 09-12-04, 02:39 PM   #5
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Yep,

The military is always getting strapped over the barrel when it comes to adequete supplies and up to date technology. When I was in the Army, they trained us on newer radio encryption equipment, which I never saw again during my enlistment.

Bush is a criminal for sending kids to their deaths without properly equipping them to deal with the enemy. Somebody ought' to frag his ass!
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Old 09-12-04, 04:32 PM   #6
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Inciting assassination attempts now.

Hope the FBI doesn't know that

YOU KEEP A DERRINGER HIDDEN IN YOUR RECTUM



it's way up there; keep going
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Old 09-12-04, 04:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albed
Inciting assassination attempts now.

Hope the FBI doesn't know that

YOU KEEP A DERRINGER HIDDEN IN YOUR RECTUM



it's way up there; keep going
Is that your new line of work albed? Anal Probing? Must be since you seem to know what's up everyone's ass these days.
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Old 09-12-04, 04:56 PM   #8
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Mostly it's their heads.

It's pretty obvious really.


Good thing you got that dead chia-pet out now; more room for yours.
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Old 09-12-04, 05:07 PM   #9
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"As you know, you go to war with the army you have," Rumsfeld said. "They're not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time "
a bullshit statement from the guy who was directly responsible for the planning, and is therefore directly responsible for the equipment failures.

you go to war with the army you have when you don't have the luxury of choosing the time, or the means, or the manner of conflict. in fact, Rumsfeld, Bush and company had all the time in the world to get it right. they just didn't.
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Old 09-12-04, 05:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albed
Mostly it's their heads.

It's pretty obvious really.


Good thing you got that dead chia-pet out now; more room for yours.
Dude, the day you'll make a diff in the head of someone is doubtful. As for what is pretty obvious, beside the fact that you'll go at any nappy user's jugular to validate your point is pretty obvious indeed.

Yep, another lame ass attempt to validate one's self again, just go bash the sig.

Pretty pathetic IMO

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Good thing you got that dead chia-pet out now; more room for yours.
No, No. More room for another 4 years of a war time prez.
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Old 09-12-04, 05:35 PM   #11
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Freedom... is never having to say you're sorry.
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Old 09-12-04, 05:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sinner
Freedom... is never having to say you're sorry.
Actually, this is where one's freedom starts and the other one end.
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Old 09-12-04, 06:10 PM   #13
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god forbid I defend 'Rummy or any of the war~mongers..........
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Old 10-12-04, 08:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Loren Thompson, a defense industry analyst with the Lexington Institute think tank...

"We have pretty much miscalculated every step along the way - why we went, how we should do it, what we needed, what support we would have, how long it would last - we pretty much got it all wrong," he said.
and then we re-elected the people who took us there.

as long as the public (or 51%, anyway) keep believing The Big Lie (they're fighting for our freedom), we deserve whatever we get in Iraq.
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Old 10-12-04, 10:24 AM   #15
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And What is a Think Tank? A Think Tank is an organization that claims to serve as a center for research or analysis of important public issues. In reality, many think tanks are little more than public relations fronts, usually headquartered in state or national seats of government and generating self serving scholarship that serves the advocacy goals of their industry sponsors; in the words of Yellow Times.org (http://www.yellowtimes.org/) columnist John Chuckman, "phony institutes where ideologue~propagandists pose as academics ... [into which] money gushes like blood from opened arteries to support meaningless advertising's suffocation of genuine debate".
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Old 10-12-04, 10:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner
And What is a Think Tank? A Think Tank is an organization that claims to serve as a center for research or analysis of important public issues. In reality, many think tanks are little more than public relations fronts, usually headquartered in state or national seats of government and generating self serving scholarship that serves the advocacy goals of their industry sponsors; in the words of Yellow Times.org (http://www.yellowtimes.org/) columnist John Chuckman, "phony institutes where ideologue~propagandists pose as academics ... [into which] money gushes like blood from opened arteries to support meaningless advertising's suffocation of genuine debate".
but does that change the substance and accuracy of the remarks? not a bit.
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Old 10-12-04, 10:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by theknife
but does that change the substance and accuracy of the remarks? not a bit.


I think it does, at the end of their statement they should also mention this War in Iraq has the lowest casualty rate of any war in American history. they get that wrong too?
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Old 10-12-04, 11:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Loren Thompson, a defense industry analyst with the Lexington Institute think tank...

"We have pretty much miscalculated every step along the way - why we went, how we should do it, what we needed, what support we would have, how long it would last - we pretty much got it all wrong," he said.
Nice of them to admit they were wrong but they weren't much of a think tank then were they? What's their latest assessment and why should that be believed?
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Old 10-12-04, 12:32 PM   #19
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It is also fact that for the first time in American history more non combat troops have accounted for nearly half the casualties in Iraq. In the past 90 percent of the casualties were combat troops, mostly infantry. So why is that? Well it could be because infantry are better trained and equipped, American infantry do their work very well, killing more of the enemy and taking fewer casualties. Also conress in the 1990’s was under pressure to give more opportunities in the army for women. Men and women begin doing their basic training together. One of the important aspects of Basic training is to se who could handle the stress and if need be get them out of the army. Troops who break down in the chaos of combat get themselves, and others, killed.

The Military knew there would be trouble because basic training has been watered down so women can handle it. Their solution was to send recruits who signed up for combat jobs to goto special all male basic training which is old school to make sure only people who could handle the stress of combat went on to become infantry. The mixed basic training is composed of non combat troops.



a quote

Quote:
Meanwhile, the mixed basic (“basic lite”) was composed of non-combat troops. But many others who should have stayed civilians, instead went into an army job. The real problem here was that “basic lite” also failed to instill an appreciation for the importance of discipline. By the last 1990s, company commanders in non-combat units were going nuts with the growth of disciplinary problems. This extended beyond people not showing up for work on time or not following orders. Rifles were not cleaned, or fired accurately during annual weapons training. People didn’t take convoy training seriously. For the brass, it wasn’t a high priority problem, and the captains were told to cope as best they could. And they did, until 2003. All of a sudden, thousands of non-combat troops were in a combat zone, and they made a lot of mistakes. The possibility of death tends to get people’s attention, it always does. The non-combat troops got more training and more equipment. Companies that made gear for armoring a few hundred BMWs a year suddenly got orders for thousands of kits to armor hummers. Troops in Iraq scrounged armor and did it themselves. It was the old American “can-do” attitude, helped along by the risk of getting killed if you don’t.

But there as another problem. A large number of reserve troops were called up for Iraq duty. Now the reservists had joined with the understanding that they would go to active duty in the event of a major emergency, and would stay on active duty, along with everyone else, until the war was over. But Iraq was not World War 3. It was a “little war,” and reservists went over to Iraq for a year or so and went back to being civilians. But because Iraq was a dangerous place for non-combat troops, the army had to provide months of additional training to make sure the reservists had a fighting chance. Additional training centers were set up in Kuwait. Sometimes reservists were rushed over without the additional training, but the army knew that was dangerous, not just for the reservists, but for the careers of any officer caught doing that too often. Many of the reservists were proud to serve, but some, reflecting the electorate back home, did not agree with the war and didn’t believe they should be there at all. Journalists loved these guys, as they were a constant source of good tips on stories the brass could not defend themselves on. That just kept the officers on their toes.

Meanwhile, basic training was beefed up, and thousands of trucks were armored, even though this meant that many of them wore out prematurely (usually suspensions and engines) because of all the additional weight in places the vehicles were not designed to handle it. In Iraq, most of the danger was concentrated on a few roads and areas. Units operating there got priority for armored trucks and escorts. There were casualties, but many, many more were avoided because of all the protective measures. Moreover, some of the “safe” areas occasionally got unsafe. If you were driving through the well protected Green Zone of Baghdad, in an unarmored hummer, and a mortar shell landed next to your vehicle, you would get hurt. If you had been in an armored hummer, you probably would not have been hurt. But the regularly attacked routes get priority for the armored hummers. Most troops understand that. In a combat zone, it’s usually bad luck or inattention that will get you into trouble, more so than lack of equipment. Out on the road, you are taught that sharp eyes and quick reflexes are more likely to keep you safe than just piling on more armor. Most roadside bombs are discovered before they are set off. Most ambushes do more damage to the ambushers than to their targets.

But ask a G.I. driving down those roads regularly how much protection he needs, and he will say “more.” You can’t defend the soldiers commander, or Secretary Rumsfeld, in a situation like this. However, we’re not talking warfare here, but media relations and politics. So when you get asked a question for which there is no correct answer, the only alternative is to admit you’re wrong, proclaim that you will do better, and wait for it all to blow over.
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Old 10-12-04, 02:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albed
Inciting assassination attempts now.
I don't think ol' bushy boy needs to worry about that, after all, he never went to combat and never will, the fuckin pansy assed pussy (Kinda reminds me of you).

But he doesn't mind sending in unprepared kids to do his dirty work,
and I am not worried about your buddies, the Fucked-up Bumbling Investigators either, asswipe.

They are about as organized as a bunch of maggots in a pile of shit.
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