Linda Ronstadt Tossed From Las Vegas Casino

[multi]

demokratia was an experiment when the greeks first got the notion..

Greece in those times was not a single political entity but rather a collection of some 1500 separate poleis or 'cities' scattered round the Mediterranean and Black Sea shores 'like frogs around a pond', as Plato once charmingly put it. Those cities that were not democracies were either oligarchies - where power was in the hands of the few richest citizens - or monarchies, called 'tyrannies' in cases where the sole ruler had usurped power by force rather than inheritance. Of the democracies, the oldest, the most stable, the most long-lived, but also the most radical, was Athens.
more..

i guess you are quite aware of all that..
i find this interesting..anyway

The equality of justice was secured by the jury system, which ensured that slaves and resident aliens were represented through their patrons. The equality of opportunity did not mean that every man has the right to everything. What it did mean is that the criteria for choosing citizens for office was merit and efficiency and not wealth. Whereas Solon had used the criterion of birth for his officials and Cleisthenes had used wealth, Pericles now used merit. This was the ideal for Pericles. What indeed happened in practice was quite different. The Greek historian Thucydides (c.460-c.400 B.C.) commented on the reality of democracy under Pericles when he wrote: "It was in theory, a democracy but in fact it became the rule of the first Athenian." And the historian Herodotus (c.485-425 B.C.) added that "nothing could be found better than the one man, the best." This "one man, the best," was the aristoi, the word from which we get the expression aristocracy. So, what began as Greek democracy under Cleisthenes around 500 B.C., became an aristocracy under Pericles by 430 B.C.
http://www.historyguide.org/ancient/lecture6b.html

i sometimes wonder how athenian US democracy is...and how much more spartan like it appears to be

[Nicobie]

[quote=Heathcliff]Do you have any scholars to back up your feelings?



Hell even the Mormon Church is all stocked up just waiting for the end of the world so they can repopulate the earth. [quote]


Now that is really freakie, but it's true.

these simple idiots are told to go knock on doors so as they can pick out the house they want when the world turns to poop. I have even asked some of them if I could pick my own house too.

They get all animated and say sure , just come to church and donate money.


Hahahahahahahahaha

It's all godshit, and don't ever forget it.

[Heathcliff]

[quote=Nicobie][quote=Heathcliff]Do you have any scholars to back up your feelings?



Hell even the Mormon Church is all stocked up just waiting for the end of the world so they can repopulate the earth.

Now that is really freakie, but it's true.

these simple idiots are told to go knock on doors so as they can pick out the house they want when the world turns to poop. I have even asked some of them if I could pick my own house too.

They get all animated and say sure , just come to church and donate money.


Hahahahahahahahaha

It's all godshit, and don't ever forget it.

I hope and believe there really is such a thing as spiritual enlightenment, and maybe even some form of conscious immortality but it will not be found by wearing Holy Underwear and thinking you're gonna fly away to some planet prepared specially for you and your One and Only True Church or any similar nonsense.

Genocidal maniacs who want to piss away the genetic heritage of the human race, if they succeed, will only win the battle not the war. Nature will crush the survivors like a bug. There really are such people out there, lots of them, who now find science and social progress is putting their backs up against the wall. They are desperate and dangerous and some of them have nuclear weapons. Let's hope reason prevails (put the whole world on prozac and risperdol if necessary) and we get through the next 50-100 years without annihilating ourselves.

We've got to disengage from the bad old ways and search for the better days. THERE'S A GLORIOUS FUTURE JUST DOWN THE ROAD A WAYS.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by Heathcliff

It's very telling you took that personally, you were a million miles away in my mind when I wrote it. In fact I was just enjoying your "Geometry" thinking what a cool and talented guy you are. You right-wing tirade shocks and disappoints me. You make a liar out of me to nicobe.

Well thank you, I'm always happy to hear it when someone likes my music. But the fact is I try to be a better writer than a musician, and I'm motivated by my desire to entertain as well as communicate. If my response came off as a tirade then I'm sorry; I meant for it to sound passionate, but not angry. The fact is that it doesn't matter if that opinion came from a scholarly source or not, it was still offensive.

I'm not telling you to keep your opinions to yourself, I'm not walking over your 1st Amendment rights (but I'm not the government so it's not as if I could anyway). I'm asking for a little common courtesy, a little foresight. It's not your opinions that offend me, I'm not the kind of person to judge one's beliefs; it's the fact that you've closed yourself off to all opposing opinions and you're unwilling to learn from others, or even admit that you have something to learn, that I object to. Just admit that you're not always right about everything and I'll forgive you.

You're getting personal with this anti-Mormon mindset. I know it's easy to pick on us, but wouldn't you rather ask me what I believe rather than spout your ignorance across the board?

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that you always seem to expect the worst of conservatives, you're always worried about the worst case scenario, and you're too willing to believe that those who disagree with you are both evil and numerous. It isn't as bad as you think. I can confidently state that the vast majority of Americans are just normal, regular people with their own problems to think about, and all this political stuff does matter to them but not much. So when you try to classify people as either Democrat or Republican you can't win. There are some Democratic issues I agree with, though not many, and there are many Republican issues that I disagree with. I'm like almost every American: my beliefs are clearly defined but they don't clearly fit into a polar political spectum. Therefore I think anyone who completly agrees with either party line is dumb, but smart people are capable of siding with one party or another without compromising too much. Don't be disappointed if I happen to be an adequate musician and a Republican. Knowing that a person can be both intelligent and wrong might rock the foundations of your world view, but you'll recover, I promise; I've come to expect it which is why I'm not as disappointed with you.

[Heathcliff]

OK, Peace Mazer. I didn't want to go after Mormons in particular. If I had known beforehand you were Mormon I would have given it a second thought. And yes I have acquainted myself with your church's belief structure or I wouldn't have spouted my opinion.

Believe it or not, some people, like me who come across as tactless and opinionated actually do have a clue as to what they're talking about.

I caulk this up to my own personal defects in communication style more than anything else. I have nothing but a technical background, I have never had to really deal with the public much so yeah I've got an smart mouth. Just to further amaze you, most people who know me in real life have overlooked this 'cause I'm so perdy.

I fully admit that I can be utterly wrong and self-deluded on a whole host of topics. No problem, I mean it. I'm sorry. And I have toned-down my whole presentation here to accomodate people like you who are at least descent to me. Fair enough?

Now, what were we talking about?

[Mazer]

I don't remember, but this is all getting to be very funny. Anyway, I was wrong about you, and I'm glad I was; all is forgiven.