The Iraqi "Free" Press...

[theknife]

...apparently is only "free" as long as the US likes what is being written:

U-S-led coalition shuts down weekly newspaper run by followers of radical Shiite cleric
By Associated Press
Sunday, March 28, 2004

Baghdad, Iraq - The U-S-led coalition has shut down a weekly newspaper in Iraq, citing the threat of violence against occupation forces.

The newspaper (Al-Hawza) is run by followers of a hardline Shiite Muslim cleric who has been an outspoken critic of the U-S-led occupation. However, he has not called for armed attacks on coalition forces.

U-S officials say articles in the newspaper were increasing the threat of violence against U-S and other coalition troops.

One article claimed that a car bomb that killed 53 people was a rocket fired by an American helicopter. Another article was titled ``Bremer follows the steps of Saddam.''

The newspaper will be shut down for 60 days.

http://news.bostonherald.com/interna...articleid=1366

this is not a bright move on our part....there is really no such thing as an almost-free press. either you have it or you don't. this cannot possibly help what little credibility we have in the Arab world and beyond.

[AweShucks]

Sure if the paper was used for free speech leave it. However:

One article claimed that a car bomb that killed 53 people was a rocket fired by an American helicopter. Another article was titled ``Bremer follows the steps of Saddam.''

That is nothing more than propaganda to insight violence

That article has rather poor information. Almost as if it was intended that way? There may very well have been more to this story but our own propaganda may have gotten in the way?

They did the right thing they may cause some hard feelings sure but for years the Iraqi people were subjected to false propaganda. They tend to believe what they read if this makes things just a little safer it is worth it.

[adonai]

U.S. soldiers handed him a letter from U.S. civil administrator Paul Bremer, citing a breach of an order issued last year that bans incitement to violence.

"These false articles not only mislead readers but constitute a real threat of violence against coalition forces and Iraqi citizens who cooperate with the coalition in the reconstruction of Iraq," a letter signed by Bremer said.

The letter referred to a series of articles it said had incited hatred, including an editorial entitled "Bremer follows the steps of Saddam."

"This is a violation of our rights," Yasseri said.

Hundreds of Shi'ites later gathered in Baghdad to protest against the ban on the newspaper.

Last July, the U.S.-led administration closed down another newspaper for inciting violence. The Arabic-language satellite television news channels Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya have also faced sanctions from the administration and the Iraqi Governing Council for allegedly violating the law.

Sadr, a young and radical Shi'ite cleric, has often spoken out against the U.S. occupation, in contrast to many other Shi'ite groups that have sought to work with occupying forces.

link

In July, the coalition announced the closure of a Baghdad newspaper and the arrest of its office manager. The statement said Al-Mustaqila, which means ''The Independent'' in Arabic, published an article on July 13 calling for ''death to all spies and those who cooperate with the U.S.'' It said killing them was a religious duty.

link

[JackSpratts]

there are always plenty of reasons to restrict the press, but they all have one thing in common: it says things you don't want to hear.

- js.

[adonai]

Originally posted by JackSpratts
there are always plenty of reasons to restrict the press, but they all have one thing in common: it says things you don't want to hear.

- js.

If I were an Iraqi and not a radical Shiite, I wouldn't want to hear this garbage either. Those publishing the false statements are the ones who'd like the US and allies to leave so they could take over.

[JackSpratts]

Originally posted by adonai
If I were an Iraqi and not a radical Shiite, I wouldn't want to hear this garbage either.

that's the beauty of controlling the press - you can just shut it off. course, that's not how a real democracy works, but who ever said the iraqis'd get one?

- js.

[theknife]

this has shitstorm written all over it....

we shut down his newspaper, and his followers flipped out....now we're gonna arrest him, thereby giving the insurgency (this is the other insurgency - the Shi'ite one, not the Sunni one) a face. by making this guy an outlaw, we're making him a hero to the Arab world.

[multi]

NYT - Shiite leaders are pushing new plan for transfer of power in Iraq that calls for partial elections, with balloting in relatively secure Shiite and Kurdish areas but not in violence-wracked 'Sunni triangle'; proposal, growing out of emerging Shiite-Kurdish political alliance, comes as UN prepares announcement on feasibility of elections; US fears partial voting would further alienate Sunnis; Shiite political leader Mowaffak al-Rubaie, Kurdish party leader Jalal Talabani and others comment; photo; Adnan Pachachi, Sunni member of Governing Council, asks how Iraq could be sovereign without voting in center of country

shitstorm indeed..
the US doesn't want to lose the support of the kurds that have been helping to control alot of northern iraq..

i cant help think of the cliche

'Oh What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to
deceive.'

[theknife]

85 days till the hand-over date...the administration is desperate to move this thing to the next level before the November election and the Iraqis know this. what's worse, come November: the US still mired in a guerilla war or Iraq consumed in civil war?

[JackSpratts]

what a kisser. ^

those guys all need to smoke some weed/chill out/find some dreamy girlfriends.

we'll leave sooner or later (later be my guess) but it looks like they're never gonna stop killing each other...

- js.

[Pacewon]

Now that is one ugly-ass Koranimal......

[floydian slip]

here is an interesting article written last december after sadam was caught.

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/whatshisname.html

Exactly when Moqtada al-Sadr will pounce is hard to say. He may start attacking convoys within weeks, or he might take the view that it would be better to wait a few months and let the northern Sunni counter-insurgency teams further weaken American military resolve. Either way, Moqtada al-Sadr gets the pick of all American convoys trying to leave Iraq in a hurry, which to borrow an old military term, means an incredibly "target rich environment". Do you remember the awesome devastation on the "Highways of Death" leading out of Kuwait during Gulf War One? Just like that, but substitute American bodies for the Iraqi bodies you saw there thirteen years ago.

damn fucking war

created more terror than it stopped

not to mention the DU illness

[Sinner]

John Kerry defended terrorist Shiite imam Moqtada al-Sadr as a "legitimate voice" in Iraq, despite that fact that he's led an uprising that has killed nearly 20 American GIs in the last two days.

Speaking of al-Sadr's newspaper, which was shut down by coalition forces last week after it urged violence against U.S. troops, Kerry complained to National Public Radio, "They shut a newspaper that belongs to a legitimate voice in Iraq."





Reality---The newspaper had published false stories blaming the coalition forces for local acts of terrorism.

[JackSpratts]

fox lies, cnn lies, shut them down too? the us colonists took ahem - major liberties with the truth preceding and during the revolution. name an outlet that hasn't. reality - a free press is one you can't shut down, whether you like what they print or don't, especially if you don't. i'm actually a little surprised at you sinner, i would've though a self described super democratic patriot such as yourself wouldn't need to be taught that very basic lesson.

- js.

[Sinner]

If fox and cnn started running stories or lies accusing innocent people of being child molesters or a certain race starting random violence against another race to cause a rif between them then yes they should be shut down. Are you really comparing this newspaper with fox and cnn? You really think they are in the same league? When did this paper become a “Free Press” anyhow? While Saddam was in power? When a terrorist was running it? When ???? Are you one of these people who run around saying I should be able to do what ever I want because this is a free country? Well time for a wake up call, you have many freedoms, some rights and some privileges, which can be taken away from you. Back to the Free Press


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Revolutionary times…”. Jefferson writing to Madison in 1788, he said: ''A declaration that the federal government will never restrain the presses from printing anything they please, will not take away the liability of the printers for false facts printed.'' 13 Papers of Thomas Jefferson 442 (J. Boyd ed. 1955). Commenting a year later to Madison on his proposed amendment, Jefferson suggested that the free speech-free press clause might read something like: ''The people shall not be deprived or abridged of their right to speak, to write or otherwise to publish anything but false facts affecting injuriously the life, liberty, property, or reputation of others or affecting the peace of the confederacy with foreign nations.'' 15 Papers, supra, at 367.”

---The Act, Ch. 74, 1 Stat. 596 (1798), punished anyone who would ''write, print, utter or publish . . . any false, scandalous and malicious writing or writings against the government of the United States, or either house of the Congress of the United States, or the President of the United States, with intent to defame the said government, or either house of the said Congress, or the said President, or to bring them, or either of them, into contempt or disrepute.'' See J. Smith, Freedom's Fetters--The Alien and Sedition Laws and American Civil Liberties (1956).



So who’s reality are you referring too? I was taught this basic lesson…..and you????


EDIT--- it is there to stop things like this happening-----

Julius Streicher's Der Stürmer, a German newspaper, carried a 14-page special issue which included the age-old charge that Jews used Christian blood to bake their Passover matzoh. The newspaper "documented" two thousand years of Jewish ritual murders. More than 100,000 copies of the issue were printed and distributed. Nazi propaganda beamed to Palestine exacerbated Arab hostility toward German Jews who had settled there, and sparked anti-Jewish riots.

Everything has limitations…

[JackSpratts]

you don’t trot into a hostile country, with your lessons about democracy, and then proceed to shut down their presses when they print something you don’t like. it’s just going to convince the occupied that you’re not to be trusted, that your “system” ‘s not to be trusted. especially a country where they’re predisposed to believing your're untrustworthy to begin with. you know, it’s obviously not a moral issue that bush has with lies. he’s got an army with a propaganda machine whose job it is to disseminate real whoppers. hell when fox news lies they don’t complain because the lie favors the republicans. it’s not lies that shut down the paper, let’s get that clear, it’s the fact that the army didn’t like what they said.

even taking them at face value, even ass - u – ming they’re bothered by the basic injustice of lying (!), you don’t combat lies with more lies, you don’t combat darkness with more darkness - instead you let all of these iraqi’s who’re “ecstatic” that the us has liberated them (and we know there are millions of them and we know they’re ecstatic because bush says so), you let them combat the lies with newspapers of their own that print the truth. that's how it's done. just like a real democracy. because doing anything less is bs, it gives ammo to your critics, and that ammo kills. it ain’t pen letters that are knocking off american mercenaries and soldiers every day.

- js.

[Sinner]

Originally posted by JackSpratts
you don’t trot into a hostile country, with your lessons about democracy, and then proceed to shut down their presses when they print something you don’t like.

I don't think anyone is trot-ing, and I also think that newspaper printed a lot of things the US did not like and it was not the reason it was shut down. It was shut down because of fasle stories with the soul purpose of getting Iraqi's enraged at Americans which was causing both Iraqi's and Americans their lives.

it’s just going to convince the occupied that you’re not to be trusted, that your “system” ‘s not to be trusted. especially a country where they’re predisposed to believing your're untrustworthy to begin with. you know, it’s obviously not a moral issue that bush has with lies. he’s got an army with a propaganda machine whose job it is to disseminate real whoppers. hell when fox news lies they don’t complain because the lie favors the republicans. it’s not lies that shut down the paper, let’s get that clear, it’s the fact that the army didn’t like what they said.

Yeah it is obvious, please quote with a link some of the false stories Fox is telling.

even taking them at face value, even ass - u – ming they’re bothered by the basic injustice of lying (!), you don’t combat lies with more lies, you don’t combat darkness with more darkness - instead you let all of these iraqi’s who’re “ecstatic” that the us has liberated them (and we know there are millions of them and we know they’re ecstatic because bush says so), you let them combat the lies with newspapers of their own that print the truth. that's how it's done. just like a real democracy. because doing anything less is bs, it gives ammo to your critics, and that ammo kills. it ain’t pen letters that are knocking off american mercenaries and soldiers every day.

- js.

I don't know what lies you are talking about? The Americans are spreading false stories to the Iraqi's? So you wake up in the morning, buy the NY Times and the NY Post, each tells very different stories, one says the police beat the man in self-defense, the other says the police attacked the man because he was black. It is your job to now decide what story is true? If you are black what story you going to believe? The truth is now out of the equation. Real Democracy? or Mob Rule? Where has that ever worked in Government? Never has, Greece tryed it and it cost Socrates his life, it does not work. A Republic works. Ever hear the saying the pen is mighty then the sword? What you think that means?

[theknife]

Originally posted by Sinner
If fox and cnn started running stories or lies accusing innocent people of being child molesters or a certain race starting random violence against another race to cause a rif between them then yes they should be shut down. Are you really comparing this newspaper with fox and cnn? You really think they are in the same league? When did this paper become a “Free Press” anyhow? While Saddam was in power? When a terrorist was running it? When ???? Are you one of these people who run around saying I should be able to do what ever I want because this is a free country? Well time for a wake up call, you have many freedoms, some rights and some privileges, which can be taken away from you. Everything has limitations…

from everything i have read, Sadr's newspaper al-Hawza was shut down for printing what the US alleges to be phony stories about US-inflicted Iraqi casualties. several reports hint that Bremer was personally pissed off and ordered the shutdown. i can't find any stories that accuse al-Hawza of calling for acts of violence; only the allegations that their stories were inciting violence. this is a pretty grey area, imo, and it would be hard to argue that shutting down this newspaper has had a postive impact on the situation.

ironically, i understand that Sadr's family is revered in Iraq because of their long and active stance against the Husssein and the Baathist regime. Rumsfeld's "deadenders" characterization doesn't seem too accurate either.

it seems that anger, as much as anything else, is driving this latest insurgency - crushing these people might solve the short-term miltary problem, but will only aggravate the long term political situation.

In a speech in El Dorado, Ark., Bush said, "We've got tough work there because, you see, there are terrorists there who would rather kill innocent people than allow for the advance of freedom. That's what you're seeing going on. These people hate freedom. And we love freedom. And that's where the clash occurs."

i can't figure out if Bush really believes this inane simplistic bullshit or he still thinks he's giving us all a giant civics lesson. i also can't figure why some still buy his silly rationalizations for this mess, but it seems apparent not as many people are buying it as they used to:

Bush's poll numbers hit new low on job rating and Iraq war
Tuesday, April 06, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Public approval of President Bush's handling of Iraq has slipped to a new low -- alongside his overall job rating -- after last week's grisly deaths of four contractors in Fallujah, a poll says.

Still, a majority supports his decision to use military force in Iraq, says the poll released yesterday.

Four in 10, or 40 percent, approve of the way Bush is handling Iraq, while 53 percent disapprove. That's down from six in 10 who approved in mid-January, according to the poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press.

Bush's overall job approval is at 43 percent, a low point for his presidency, down from 56 percent in mid-January. In the new poll, 47 percent disapproved of Bush's job performance. Bush's job approval soared to 90 percent after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and remained in the 70s for almost a year after that.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index....3945047420.xml

[AweShucks]

I still can't believe you people are still arguing about this so called newspaper.


The mistake wasn't shutting this newspaper down, the mistake was letting this freak build a militia for the last 6 months. This Al-Sadr was outspoken as early as last OCT saying he did not recognize the Americans or their plans and was going to form his own goverment.