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Old 12-02-07, 09:10 PM   #101
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What you lack in intelligence you sort of make up for in pissiness. Of course there's no way you can be entirely that pissy.
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Old 12-02-07, 09:13 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDixon View Post


Since when do the Iranians use English or is this proof that the Bush admin is secretly arming Iran?

The ineptitude of the Bush admin continues to boggle the minds of sane people everywhere.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2...ieve-this.html
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/doc...?resultpage=1&

this is the full powerpoint presentaion that pic came from
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Old 12-02-07, 10:25 PM   #103
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Show me a link to an official U.S. military source site that claims that the picture shown above is an Iranian made mortar shell.

The Iranian made "Explosive Formed Penetrator" or EFP devices they have been talking about are not mortar shells and do not look like that.

They can not be correctly classified as an IED (Improvised Explosive Device) because they are not improvised devices. They are being mass-manufactured in Iran for a specific purpose - to kill and maim Iraqi and coalition soldiers.

The picture above is simply anti-Bush, anti-war propaganda.

See picture below for the Iranian made EFP device.
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Old 12-02-07, 11:24 PM   #104
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One ambassador in Washington said he was taken aback when John Hannah, Vice President Cheney’s national security adviser, said during a recent meeting that the administration considers 2007 “the year of Iran” and indicated that a U.S. attack was a real possibility.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/hannah-iran/
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Old 13-02-07, 01:17 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Drakonix View Post
Show me a link to an official U.S. military source site that claims that the picture shown above is an Iranian made mortar shell.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021100479.html
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Old 13-02-07, 10:22 AM   #106
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Try again, if you wish.

The WP article you linked to does not show the picture of an 81mm mortar round and claim it was of Iranian origin.

The article is NOT from an official U.S. military source.

The WP article specifically mentions a special bomb type coming from Iran and specifically mentions "explosively formed penetrator" or EFP:

Quote:
During a long-awaited presentation, held in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, the officials displayed mortar shells, rocket-propelled grenades and a powerful cylindrical bomb, capable of blasting through an armored Humvee, that they said were manufactured in Iran and supplied to Shiite militias in Iraq for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi troops.
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U.S. military officials in Iraq had previously described the use of "explosively shaped charges" to target vehicles, but Sunday's briefing was the first time they displayed pieces of what they called an "explosively formed penetrator" or EFP.
The EFP devices are "explosively shaped charges" that expel a high velocity armor defeating metallic projectile in a specific direction.

The EFP devices are large and quite powerful. For example, a standard CD or DVD is 120mm in diameter. So, the 81 mm mortar shell is approximately 32% smaller in diameter than a CD. The EFP devices are about 12 inches (approximately 305mm) in diameter, or over two and half times larger than a CD, and about 376% the size of the 81mm mortar shell. Whereas the mortar shell explodes in a circular pattern, the EFP device directs the force of the blast in a narrow aimed direction.

The article says photographs were not allowed during the presentation:

Quote:
The officials released a PowerPoint presentation including photographs of the weaponry, but did not allow media representatives to record, photograph or videotape the briefing or the materials on display.
The "precision machining" characteristic of Iranian origin is of the EFP devices, NOT ordinary mortar or rocket propelled grenade munitions. Specifically, the precision machining is of the metallic disk that becomes the projectile when the device detonates. It's shape is special and causes the force of the explosion to be concentrated in a specific direction.

The 81mm mortar round depicted with a claim that the U.S. military stated it is of Iranian origin is apparently a hoax perpetrated by an anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-U.S. source.

The article you linked to confirms the facts that I have posted regarding the Iranian made EFP devices.
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Old 13-02-07, 11:40 AM   #107
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Let the back-peddling begin.
Now we see why none of the "military officials" in Baghdad that presented the slideshow that DID include the picture of the mortor round were so keen on not being identified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...8N8SBQO1.shtml
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Old 13-02-07, 12:56 PM   #108
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The slideshow did include pictures of mortar rounds and rocket propelled grenades, as the WP article states. It is true that such munitions have been used to construct IED roadside bombs.

From the descriptions of the presentation, the slideshow did not present a 81mm mortar round as Iranian made. The Iranian made devices in question are not mortar rounds or rocket propelled grenades, they are EFP devices.

IMO the statement
Quote:
That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this," Pace said. "What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers.
does indeed qualify as "back-peddling" when contrasted to much stronger statements recently made. The inference in previous statements is clearly that the Iranian Government is directly involved. However, it is important to note that General Pace has a minority opinion about the involvement of the Iranian Government in the matter.

The 81mm mortar round picture and caption claiming that the mortar round munition is certified by the U.S. military as Iranian is simply a purposeful lie by anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-U.S. source(s).

Again, it is the EFP devices that are Iranian made, or minimally contain Iranian made parts.
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Old 13-02-07, 01:45 PM   #109
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"In a news briefing held under strict security, the officials spread out on two small tables an E.F.P. and an array of mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades with visible serial numbers that the officials said link the weapons directly to Iranian arms factories. The officials also asserted, without providing direct evidence, that Iranian leaders had authorized smuggling those weapons into Iraq for use against the Americans. The officials said such an assertion was an inference based on general intelligence assessments."

All under strict anonymity too because they knew it was all crap and did not want their names connected with it.
The purpose was to plant the seeds, by way of the willing press, that Iran is killing americans in Iraq in the kool-aid drinker's feeble minds and they greedily suck it up and beg for more.

Now say you're sorry for doubting me
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Old 13-02-07, 03:25 PM   #110
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Iraqi insurgents using Austrian rifles from Iran

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...3/wiran313.xml

Google will supply more news sources if you search.


--More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.

Within 45 days of the first HS50 Steyr Mannlicher rifles arriving in Iran, an American officer in an armoured vehicle was shot dead by an Iraqi insurgent using the weapon.

They said 170 American and British soldiers had been killed by such weapons.
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Old 13-02-07, 05:07 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
Iraqi insurgents using Austrian rifles from Iran

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...3/wiran313.xml

Google will supply more news sources if you search.


--More than 100 of the.50 calibre weapons, capable of penetrating body armour, have been discovered by American troops during raids.

Within 45 days of the first HS50 Steyr Mannlicher rifles arriving in Iran, an American officer in an armoured vehicle was shot dead by an Iraqi insurgent using the weapon.

They said 170 American and British soldiers had been killed by such weapons.
so, using the same logic with which we are threatening Iran and Syria, we should also be thinking about bombing Austria.
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Old 13-02-07, 05:27 PM   #112
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so, using the same logic with which we are threatening Iran and Syria, we should also be thinking about bombing Austria.

Sure why not? I would be thinking about it if it were my brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, children being killed. Damn right, let us think about it, we will weigh all the pros and cons and see where we end up. My guess is it would not make sense to bomb Austria as lets say Iran. And I am not saying we should bomb Iran but this is where that logic thing comes into play. Who is the larger threat to stability in the region? Who wants to destroy another country, and not even hide the fact that is what they want to do? Who is directly supplying arms to insurgents who are killing Americans? Who is trying to make nuclear weapons and again not try to hide that fact?

Any other countries you would like to consider bombing?
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Old 14-02-07, 10:51 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by RDixon View Post
All under strict anonymity too because they knew it was all crap and did not want their names connected with it.
They would have identified themselves if the press conference had been held in the safety of Washington, D.C. instead of Baghdad. It isn't your withering ridicule they're afraid of. The insurgents read the news and if these men had identified themselves they would now have bounties on their heads.

Anyway, the press loves reporting information garnered from anonymous insiders. What's the big deal?
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Old 14-02-07, 11:03 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
They would have identified themselves if the press conference had been held in the safety of Washington, D.C. instead of Baghdad. It isn't your withering ridicule they're afraid of. The insurgents read the news and if these men had identified themselves they would now have bounties on their heads.
Shouldn't you be watching your president on tv right now, lying through his teeth again?

edit: to answer your edit. The big deal, I suppose would be it was a Press Conference; not a clandestine meeting.
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Old 15-02-07, 11:49 AM   #115
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The democrats have apparently decided that having Iranian al-Quds killing U.S. military personnel in Iraq gives them more leverage in pressuring Bush to cut and run so they oppose any retaliation that would save American lives.


Not suprising at all.

http://media-newswire.com/release_1043680.html
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Old 15-02-07, 03:10 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDixon View Post
The big deal, I suppose would be it was a Press Conference; not a clandestine meeting.
You're grasping at straws, especially when you suggest that a public press conference is somehow more suspicious than a secret meeting.

Nobody is suggesting that we bomb Iran over this. The goal is to keep Iran from meddling in Iraq's domestic problems, to keep Iranians from crossing the border. It doesn't really matter whether Iran's government is directly involved or not, it bears all the responsibility for al-Quds's actions. We certainly won't go to war with Iran over this issue, but we do have to press our case on them or these deadly weapons will continue to slip over the border, even after our troops leave Iraq.
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Old 16-02-07, 05:42 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazer
You're grasping at straws, especially when you suggest that a public press conference is somehow more suspicious than a secret meeting.
I'm not suggesting; I'm saying.

The press conference was twice delayed and then moved from DC to Baghdad where the reporters were not allowed to have cameras or tape recorders.
Then the mysterious "military officials" made very serious allegations against the Iranian government and in keeping with the total ineptitude of everything else the Bush admin has done or tried to do, presented easily debunked "evidence" which did NOT even begin to support their claims.

Do I call that suspicious?

Yes, yes I do.

A spade is still a spade no matter how much quacking a lame duck does.
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Old 16-02-07, 12:49 PM   #118
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Quote:
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A spade is still a spade no matter how much quacking a lame duck does.
There is no rational argument against irrational doubt such as yours. If Bush said that the ocean is wet, you'd say it was dry.

The Ayatollahs may not have ordered those weapons to be given to insurgents in Iraq, but those weapons were none the less given to insurgents in Iraq; it's Iran's fault for letting it happen. If calling a spade a spade means indicting Iran for it's involvement in Iraq's violent state, then so be it.

Again, to reiterate, nobody is advocating war with Iran.

Awe hell, there's no point in arguing with you.
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Old 16-02-07, 01:48 PM   #119
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Quote:
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There is no rational argument against irrational doubt such as yours. If Bush said that the ocean is wet, you'd say it was dry.
Ah hell.
If Bush said that; I would pass out in shock and maybe even awe that he for once told the truth.

You call me irrational for doubting Bush's word?

You do understand how ludicrious that is, don't you?

And you will continue to argue with me because you like it.

I think if I said the ocean was wet you would disagree and make a long post about how wet is really dry....
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Old 16-02-07, 03:27 PM   #120
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Believe whatever you want. You have my permission.
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