Extraterrestial Intelligence

[TankGirl]

I came across this interesting article on the Kuro5hin website. Any comments? - tg


Disclosing the UFOs
By nanook
Thu May 17th, 2001 at 08:19:21 AM EST

On Wednesday, May 9th, a group of government and military officials held a press conference at the Press Club in Washington DC, where they, under the name of "The Disclosure Project", urged the government to disclose what it purportedly knows about UFOs and "extraterrestial technology". The group, lead by Dr. Steven Greer, said that the "Military-Industrial complex" has over the last 50 years controlled a "shadowy government" that through the military, CIA, NSA, NRO, corporations and other nameless and faceless organisations has intimidated and acted criminally to ensure that the information was kept secret and known fully only to a group of "less than 50 people".

While this maybe sounds more like a X-Files episode than reality, I will not question the validity of the testmonies (ie that they are not lying about what they have seen). To orchestrate a hoax of this proportion (there were over 20 witnessess at the conference, about 100 more named testimonies and some 300 more that wanted to remain anonymous, summary here) is out of the question. People are risking their careers and "good name" to tell of this. Could what they have seen been non-extraterrestial, just some weird military project that is secret, but very mundane? Not likely. Many witnessess confirm that at least those that work with this consider it not of this world, or at least not of this planet.

On a related note, the Majestic Documents site are housing pdfs of leaked top secret documents that also supports at least parts of their stories. Most of these, however, are from the 60s or older and may be fakes, although some research says they're not. One key point that UFOlogists maintain is that the knowledge of this and the research going on is not known widely even in the CIA or the rest of the government/military and since the late 60s more or less left governmental control. At least two presidents haven't been briefed. Daniel Sheehan, the groups counselor and well-known lawyer, said that George Bush Sr. as head of the CIA during the Carter administration denied the president access to the information.

While reading all this, and about UFOs in general, you have of course to be very skeptical and indeed much (if not most) of the speculations and/or "New Age" ramblings widely available on the net and elsewhere are impossible to prove and are often contradictory in themselves. But if you have an open-minded scientific approach to this, you can't deny that there is something out there. Is it the truth?

Dr. Steven Greers introductory points in his Executive summary:

The evidence and testimony presented in the [Executive Summary] establishes the following:

- That we are indeed being visited by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations and have been for some time;

- That this is the most classified, compartmented program within the US and many other countries;

- That those projects have, as warned in 1961 by President Eisenhower, escaped legal oversight and control in the US, the UK and elsewhere;

- That advanced spacecraft of extraterrestrial origin, called extraterrestrial vehicles (ETVs) by some intelligence agencies, have been downed, retrieved and studied since at least the 1940s and possibly as early as the 1930s;

- That significant technological breakthroughs in energy generation and propulsion have resulted from the study of these objects (and from related human innovations dating as far back as the time of Nicola Tesla) and that these technologies utilize a new physics not requiring the burning of fossil fuels or ionizing radiating to generate vast amounts of energy;

- That classified, above top-secret projects possess fully operational anti-gravity propulsion devices and new energy generation systems that, if declassified and put to peaceful uses, would empower a new human civilization without want, poverty or environmental damage.

[HellBound]

Originally posted by TankGirl
I came across this interesting article on the Kuro5hin website. Any comments? - tg

- That classified, above top-secret projects possess fully operational anti-gravity propulsion devices and new energy generation systems that, if declassified and put to peaceful uses, would empower a new human civilization without want, poverty or environmental damage.

And we all know...judging by history that if there was anything found, it wouldnt be used for peaceful uses.

The human race just wouldnt be able to handle using something that powerful for good.

Thanks for the link Tankgirl...I will read through it some more when i have time. I started reading through the executive summary..but wasnt able to make it that far.

HellBound

[Moist_Funny_Head]

Better hide this thread from the god botherers. They will probably explode if they have to handle even the slightest notion that there may be another alternative to god.

[nanook]

hi tankgirl,

i'm new to this forum.

i't's funny that the article dubs the same as my nic.

your article is of interest and on another note, did anyone see the tv segment on whether the landing on the moon was a hoax or not.

many good points were raised and had me thinking.

if true, then it would be very possible to hide what your article indeed claims.


nanook

of course it's true, every word of it. want proof? look no further than the tail fins of a '59 cadillac. the first in a long line of "anti-saucer-rays" designed to protect and shield the wealthy from the debilitating effects alien space beams. it took gm almost four years of intensive research just to get them small enough to fit inside a buick riviera. why do you think those cars were so big anyway?

and still they don't believe...

[VWguy]

Whether or not an extraterestrial life form has visited Earth, it would be the height of arrogance to think that WE are the only life in the universe.
It is just to impossible that we are "alone" in this universe to think anything else.

I heard a good breakdown on the statistics for our galaxy alone, but I don't rember the details. It worked on the theory that if 10% of the 1 trillon stars were of the right type( age, size, ect), and 10% of those had planets, and of those with planets 10% had a planet that was the right size, ect.....Anyway, it worked down to several million planets that would be earthlike enough to easily support our type of life.

This does not take into account that there are other basis for life possible, non-carbon or non H2o are both realistic possibilities.

This is what I believe, not just the Trekkie talking.

[Wenchie]

Originally posted by VWguy
Whether or not an extraterestrial life form has visited Earth, it would be the height of arrogance to think that WE are the only life in the universe.
It is just to impossible that we are "alone" in this universe to think anything else.

I heard a good breakdown on the statistics for our galaxy alone, but I don't rember the details. It worked on the theory that if 10% of the 1 trillon stars were of the right type( age, size, ect), and 10% of those had planets, and of those with planets 10% had a planet that was the right size, ect.....Anyway, it worked down to several million planets that would be earthlike enough to easily support our type of life.

This does not take into account that there are other basis for life possible, non-carbon or non H2o are both realistic possibilities.

This is what I believe, not just the Trekkie talking.

Good points VWG...I take an open minded stance on the question of extraterrestrial activity. It's worth thinking about though that the criteria used for determining the possibility of life 'out there' is human criteria. The fact that there is possibly much outside the realm of human understanding seems to escape even the most enquiring of minds sometimes. The egotism of wo/man just doesnt seem to allow for anything that we cant conceive of.

wench

Even greater than the conspiracy to cover up evidence of UFO's by the US gov't is the conspiracy to cover up top secret research using a UFO coverup story.

I saw a show on the Discovery channel about the history of Dreamland (or Area 51 as it is popularly called). Area 51 was a box on a map of Nevada, right there between area 50 and area 52. It happened to have a large dry lakebed so when the top guys in the US air force needed a place where they wouldn't be bothered while they tested the U2 (spy plane, not rock band), they decided that Area 51 would be a good spot.

About the same time some air force guys in New Mexico were testing weather balloon designs outside of Roswell. The balloon crashed, a farmer found it, the air force reclaimed it, and the story of a weather balloon crash was reported in the Roswell newspaper the next week.

The guys at Dreamland (that's what others in the air force called it because they weren't allowed anywhere near it) decided that they needed a cover story to keep people away so they "accidentally leaked" that the weather balloon was actually a crashed UFO. The press caught on and faithfully reported the UFO story across the nation, and they made it sound like it was all a big secret, which is just what the air force wanted. People were too distracted by the UFO story to care about Area 51 and the U2 prototype. And over the years as the air force has tested the stealth fighter and stealth bomber (and other unknown airplanes) at Dreamland, people have mistaken those planes for UFO's and the air force lets them. If people believe that secret spy planes are actually alien spacecraft then national security remains intact.

Well that's what I think anyway.

But there are surely other intelligent species in the universe. And while VWguy is right in his calculations, it must also be understood that the distances between these civilizations must be immense. I think it's unlikely that any other intelligent aliens have visited Earth because they would have to be a lot older than us to possess the necessary technology to cross interstellar (and even intergalactic) space. The universe isn't as old as we think it is; other systems that can support intelligent lifeforms probably aren't much older than our own. And if you ask me, I say that we're probably the oldest civilization in this corner of the universe (well, this corner of the galaxy, anyway).

I learned of an interesting theory (in a scifi book, I think) that says that evolution on Earth has been occurring at an accelerated rate. Why? Because of Jupiter and the nearby asteroid belt. While Jupiter does have a tendency to eat up dangerous asteroids, it may be to blame for some of ancient history's worst asteroid collisions. Jupiter causes perturbations in the asteroid belt that sometimes results in asteroids being flung towards Earth. Two major collisions have been recorded that had serious effects on Earth's ecology: one 65 million years ago that resulted in the extinction of the dinosaurs, and one some time after that that may have caused the ice ages. Obviously there must have been asteroid collisions before those two that we don't know about.

But the point is that every time a global ecological disaster occurs, the less evolved species die out and the more advanced species adapt and multiply; hence the accelerated evolution. True, there may be innumerable planets elsewhere where life may have evolved, even intelligent life. But unless their planets have been subject to such disasters as our's has, it is unlikely that intelligent life could evolve as quickly as it has on Earth.

Or maybe not.

The questions of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence are very intriguing, but what I'd really like to know is why human beings continue to insist that they must be inferior to other alien species. People might be egotistic sometimes as wench points out, but usually we agree when people tell us we are insignificant. That's really sad. Intelligence is a rare and unique thing (even among humans) and we should acknowledge that fact and be proud of our place in the universe. At least we're not as arrogant as the people of Krikkit from the book Life, the Universe and Everything (R.I.P. Douglas Adams) who were so sure that they were alone in the universe that when they discovered they were wrong they decided to destroy it.

[Ramona_A_Stone]

For your consideration The Drake Equation or "Nc = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • fL" - This equation was developed in 1961 and many variations exist, but basically it takes estimates of

R* (or N*)-The number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy (the number in the original formula was actually a birth rate of stars
fp-The fraction of stars with planetary systems
ne-The number of planets with the "e" quality, that is, in the "habitable zone" or capable of sustaining life as we know it
fl-The fraction of planets where life evolves
fi-The fraction of planets where intelligent life evolves
fc-The fraction of intelligent civilizations which arise and have the will or desire to communicate
fL (or L)- The fraction of the planet's life during which communicating civilizations survive

to arrive at Nc or the number of possible communicating civilizations in our galaxy. There is a calculator on the link above and my input calculates that this number is approximately 250,000. (more 'reasonable' estimates are considered by many prominent scientists, including Sagan, to be in a range from about 100 to 2000)

There are some inherently anthropomorphic assumptions in this equation though. The first and probably most obvious is that it calculates exclusively civilizations in our galaxy. This is because astrophysicists (especially in the 60's) simply failed to take technologies with the capability of transmitting any possible kind of signal, much less allowing for physical travel through the inconceivable distances between galaxies, seriously. The scale of these intergalactic distances is almost impossible to conceptualize, similar to the problem of visualizing how little actual mass is present in the electron clouds that constitute our physical experience, or the display of matter. Yet the cutting edge of quantum physics indicates not only that the probability of the existence of temporal wormholes is high, but that the material substance of everyday life is literally laced with them - that the effect of gravity is the flow of a superfluid ether toward, into, and 'back out the 'other side' of mass through 'tiny brown wormholes' and into a 'shadow world' of supersymmetry. I think all this clearly indicates that we ourselves have barely been around long enough to understand the basic functioning of reality, (even though these theories do harken back to a number of 'primitive mysticisms') much less how it might be harnessed or manipulated, and that what we now consider 'impossible' may be commonplace in the future. The distance between galaxies may not be insurmountable to advanced species.

Another obvious preconception here is that life must evolve on planets and under particular, narrow conditions; the presumption that all life must be almost specifically 'earth-like.'

The final, pre-millennial stress factor in this formula is evident in the generally infinitesimal values assigned to L, where intelligent species are not given much credit for being able to transcend the cusp of an Atomic Age, or being able to migrate, adapt, and exploit other possible environments after having depleted native resources. (my own input to the Drake equation is in fact so high because I take factor L as open-ended; if a species can do things like travel for light-years in space and technologically supersede it own biological replication, (cloning etc.) I see no reason to assume it cannot surmount extinction altogether in some form)

Mazer asks why we "continue to insist that (we) must be inferior to other alien species." The obvious assumption is that if any species have the technological capability to travel here, they are by definition more technologically advanced than we. Alpha Centauri, the very nearest star to our sun, is four light-years away, and not a particularly promising candidate. (for Earth-like planets, at least) Since we've only been to the moon a handful of times, have yet to set hominid foot on mars, and have not yet built any devices which have significantly traveled beyond our own solar system, we can only gague how advanced extraterrestrials in our neighborhood might be by projecting the point at which we see ourselves capable of such interstellar flight, movement or telecommunication. I think it may also be significant to note the way that Human endeavors in space already carry a profound global significance, spanning nationalistic and corporate concerns in our collective imagination, acknowledging that our survival as a species may ultimately hinge on our ability to move into and exploit space.

Another factor scientists haggle over is, to use Star Trek terminology, the existence of a prime directive, and whether or not such would be an inherent aspect of the exploratory agendas of any exobiological intelligence we might encounter. That a Protocol For Contact should be such a developed philosophical concern among even our own primitive, resource obsessed, planet-mugging, post-world-war species seems fairly telling.

"Presumption of Non-Hostile Intent

This is actually one of the safest assumptions we can make regarding ETI. There is not likely to be any contention over resources to serve as a basis for hostility between intelligent species. There is likely to be lots of unused real estate in the cosmos. The scarcity of such real estate on our own planet has served as the primary grounds for conflicts that we observe between members of the animal kingdom on the one hand, and between members of our own species on the other. Consequently, it is safe to assume that "they" do not want our planet, nor do they wish to harm us. Besides, with their technical capabilities, if they wanted us out of the way, we wouldn't still be here."

Most of this document deals with the the state of our popular culture and belief systems as elements of protocol; the effect of ETI contact in and upon the context of our own cultural and psychological conditions and the probable ability of any ETI's in the vicinity to extrapolate this effect. The whole underlying premise seems to be either that we have not been deemed 'worthy' or 'ready' of contact by 'the extraterrestrials' themselves, (who could obviously monitor our state from a safe distance or have any number of ways to avoid detection altogether) or that any 'leaks' or 'accidental' evidence of the mere existence of extraterrestrials who do not wish to be detected have been covered up by members of our own species who deem us so unready.

A third set of possibilties is often suggested but generally taken less seriously - that ETI's have formed secret communicating allegiances with select agencies of our own species, to which they dispense certain technological advances, or have actually covertly infiltrated the envelope of Human Culture in one way or another.

"...Presumably, the largest contingency for establishing contact with an ETI is overcoming our own developmental inadequacies, which are linked to our evolutionary stage of development. If we are not sufficiently advanced, socially, economically, politically, legally, theologically, and technologically, then we could not be expected to assimilate the discovery of ETI in a functional manner...
...These hurdles are the ELEMENTS OF PROTOCOL. The elements consist of a long list of conditions, developmental advances, and discoveries which constitute markers "for stages of development". For instance, our discovery of fossilized microbial life on Mars would constitute an important developmental marker. It would in fact be an element of protocol that we should have first discovered such microbial life, either in our own solar system, or on the planets of neighboring stars...
...We might call the detection of life in other planetary systems a "second order confirmation." ...
...By means of crossing such developmental markers, we would in fact be taking much of the potential shock away from the discovery of ETI. We would be preparing ourselves psychologically for the event...

...The successive increase in the plausibility of the idea of ETI which stems from limited informal contact would also be an important precondition or "element of protocol." In short "they" would have to contact a number of us "surreptitiously" knowing that we would relate the details of our experiences to others, and that this diffusion of knowledge would also serve as an important social impact buffer. Moreover, if we are on the verge of discovering their existence by means of our own technological developments, this would seem to place additional pressures on "them" to mitigate the impact of the contact, possibly by stepping up the number of informal contacts. The ability to detect their existence with our technology might itself be an important developmental marker and an important element of protocol..."

Now, I'm not saying Whitley Strieber's Communion is anything other than a work of fiction, but if you've read that book, and consider that the technological advances of ETI's may penetrate and be able to manipulate the organic hologram of reality in ways incomprehensible to our present understanding, the idea of exactly how these "informal contacts" might be occurring... well, might make you want to get one of these (Link courtesy Malk-a-mite) - or at least fashion a homemade tinfoil version. (you may need it shortly)

A fourth possibility, and the one I personally find the most compelling, has been alluded to many times by many Earth cultures for many centuries, and that is the possibilty that the very existence and evolution of life on our own planet was in fact engineered by ETI.

To be continued...

Romona, those are all compelling theories, thanks for posting them. Unfortunately it's all based on the presumption that our first contact with ETI will only occur if they come to us. Who says that they have or will? How do we know that we won't go to them?

Maybe some acclimation is necessary before first contact can safely happen. I saw "2001: A Space Odyssey" and the idea that a highly intelligent species would not only leave a trail of clues for us to follow but also alter our minds and bodies is quite fantastic. To do this one would have to be very patient, one would have to plan ahead for millions of years to come, and one would have to accurately predict the outcome of these changes. That's pretty far fetched.

But it can't happen that way anyway, it never has in the past. Every time alien cultures have collided in our history blood has been shed. We can't plan ahead in order to prevent war, and neither could an alien species. Probably the best way to get through such an earth-shaking event as first contact would be to declare war on the aliens and hope neither species is destroyed before the enlightened beings among both species can make peace. Of course if we contact a species that has already contacted other ETI's then the situation would be different. But anyway, each of us is too independent as individuals to make first contact go smoothly for everyone involved.

And what if we contact a species that is not made up of individuals? What if we contact a one-of-a-kind ETI? Or a civilization where the concept of individuality does not exist? They/it may not be able to come to terms with 6 (10, 20) billion individuals. They or it may decide to break off all contact, or worse, try to destroy us.

What if we find a sentient species of molecule sized beings? Can we come to peaceful terms with a civilization of intelligent viruses? Or even communicate with them?

It'd be extremely difficult for any ET civilization to meet us without conflict. We can't be changed, we either have to change ourselves individually or wait for those who won't change to die. Neither would we undertake any project to change an alien civilization. They will have to be compatible with us from the start, or they will have to change themselves to be compatible, or we will have to force them out of our way to avoid contact.

While it may be possible to manipulate other civilizations from afar, it would be hard to do it completely unnoticed. Ideas planted by alien beings will feel alien to the civilization they're planted in and may be rejected. Any attempt to change the minds or bodies of aliens may eventually lead to a species that is no longer alien.

Now while it's possible that other alien species are more advanced than we are, I don't think it would make much difference. Humans, for all their prejudices and ignorances, learn and adapt very quickly. Any outside pressure to survive is provocation enough to advance our civilization by leaps and bounds. We can't help it, we've developed in a world where we must excel to survive, and anytime our survival is threatened we will always give everything to succeed. Any alien species that makes contact with us will discover soon after that we have become more advanced than they.

In short, there can be no possible protocol that will ensure that first contact will be peaceful. Every meeting will be unique, will be unlike anything we could imagine or prepare for. And we're bound to make many mistakes no matter what our intentions.

[Maze]

First of all, thanks for the links in this thread. Here's another I've always liked:

The Black Vault

There you will find a lot of pics of actual government documents and other interesting things.

I personally believe we are visited by aliens in craft that perhaps maneuvers similar to when you see two magnets repel (the very simplest example). My belief in ETI's is based on nothing tangible or scientific. Just a hunch ...intuition ...and I very much liked the book "Communion" ...and the movie.

They've always been here since the beginning. You can see evidence of them in the work of Renaissance artists. Hell, I think they've even found caveman paintings. People who've never even watched TV or movies (say the old man farmer) report the same looking aliens & ships. Even Betty & Barney Hill describe an experience mostly just like all the others at a time (1962 or so I think) when our media wasn't saturated with it. Makes ya wonder. They seem to be conducting some kind of cross-breeding thing between us & them as well as just general experiments and study of us like zoo animals. Being taken by them in the middle of the night or whatever would surely be the frightening part. They should write a letter or telephone and ask first ...lol.

I used to wonder if they were not coming from outer space at all, but from inside the Earth ...which would explain the evolution of their big black eyes and grey skin in the sunless environment ...but hehe ...that's pretty far fetched and I've come to the conclusion that no matter how far fetched travel from another galaxy light years away seems ...they seem to have figured out a way.