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Old 14-02-04, 05:00 PM   #21
scooobiedooobie
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tk..if you have no "qualms" about voting for kerry, i'd advise you to read up on his history...all of it. after you have, in all seriousness, i hope you will re-think your present stance.

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Originally posted by theknife
though the anti-war stuff is a non-issue - if he went over there and fought it, then he earned the right to call it like he saw it).
kerry went far beyond just "calling it like he saw it". he turned against his fellow soldiers and america.
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I’m quite certain Senator John Kerry will be a “hero” to today’s peaceniks, anarchists and any others who hate Amerika. But for the more than 50,000 Vietnam Veterans whose names appear on the Vietnam Memorial, Senator John Kerry is nothing but a skunk. - Gary Aldrich
http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/a-b...rich021304.htm




read what vietnam veterans think of him, visit the site...read it all.....
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Soon after Kerry, as a Navy Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam, was awarded the Silver Star, he used an obscure Navy regulation to leave Vietnam and his crew before completing his tour of duty.

After returing home, he quit the Navy early and changed the color of his politics to become a leader of VVAW. Kerry wasted no time organizing opposition in the United States against the efforts of his former buddies still ducking communist bullets back in Vietnam.

Kerry participated in the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation where his fellow protesters accused his fellow GIs of war crimes.

Kerry's betrayal of American prisoners of war, his blatant disrespect for the families of our missing in action, Vietnam veterans, the military, his support for communist Vietnam and his waffling over the issue of use of force in Iraq proves he is a self promoting Chameleon Senatorwho cannot be relied on to protect the best interests of the United States.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm



then, read how kerry doesn't think that "al qaeda is all that bad"....
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Kerry seems to have forgotten the horrific events of 9-11-2001, or perhaps in his staggering wealth he simply doesn’t give a damn. Kerry loved the disgusting insult the cover of his book, The New Soldier, delivered to the thousands of United States Marines and sailors who died on Iwo Jima (the cover has protestors mocking the raising of the flag on Mount Suribachi and holding the U.S. flag upside down). He marched with protestors carrying Viet Cong flags while the Viet Cong killed American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines.

He supported North Vietnam’s use of American POWs as bargaining chips in peace negotiations. He remains a vocal supporter of the traitorous “Hanoi Jane” Fonda, who encouraged the torture of American POWs. And with other radical leftists, John Kerry threw medals he implied belonged to him at a statue at the Capitol, when in reality they were not his at all (he later admitted he wasn’t sure whose medals those were). He even claimed to have personal knowledge of numerous American servicemen raping, pillaging, plundering and murdering across South Vietnam, which he later admitted to having heard as hearsay from fellow supporters of North Vietnam.

North Vietnamese war strategists have repeatedly stated that the communist insurgency was able to defeat the U.S. military in large part because of the motivation and hope the North Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong received from U.S. “war” protestors. Kerry sees nothing wrong with any of this.

Now John Kerry, who according to the North Vietnamese gave them aid and comfort in time of war, says al Qaeda isn’t all that bad and that President Bush is exaggerating the danger we are in. I wonder if he would feel that way had his family been killed in the attacks of September 11th, 2001.

Al Qaeda has butchered thousands of Americans and would kill every American man, woman and child on earth if they could. They destroyed the World Trade Center, attacked the Pentagon, nearly sank the USS Cole, destroyed our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, blew up the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, plotted to slaughter Americans around the world, and are desperately seeking nuclear, chemical and biological weapons to use against us.

And John Kerry says President Bush is exaggerating how dangerous al Qaeda is.

There is a long-running fallacy that someone who served in the military would no doubt make a good commander in chief in time of war. In reality, you must look at the entire candidate and get inside his head. You have to judge him by all his past actions, policies, beliefs and philosophies.

Do you want a president who believes al Qaeda isn’t all that bad
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/fre..._20040211.html

hanoi jane & john.....
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Old 14-02-04, 05:15 PM   #22
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his second tour of duty scoob.

five rows behind fonda, 3 years before she went to hanoi? the administration should concentrate their efforts explaining how bush jumped a 500 person que getting into the guard only to be so insignificant a presence the dentist who supposedly fixed this celebrity son of a congressman's teeth can't even remember him.

kerry was a true, genuine hero both in war and again in peaceful protest, the backbone of a participatory democracy.

all this while bush did little but drink to oblivion with his privileged frat boy pals.

the republicans should be ashamed for inventing this drama.

- js.
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Old 14-02-04, 08:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by scooobiedooobie
tk..if you have no "qualms" about voting for kerry, i'd advise you to read up on his history...all of it. after you have, in all seriousness, i hope you will re-think your present stance.


kerry went far beyond just "calling it like he saw it". he turned against his fellow soldiers and america.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/a-b...rich021304.htm




read what vietnam veterans think of him, visit the site...read it all.....

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

hanoi jane & john.....
scoob, imho, if the man went over to Vietnam, took three bullets in the process of doing his duty, neither you nor i or anybody who wasn't there has any right to judge his views or actions on the subject. and for every vet who slams him, there's another who supports him - clearly, it's a question of perspective, and obviously, political orientation, as to how you view his conduct.

the jane fonda picture is a silly, desperate, and laughingly transparent attempt to paint the guy red. the GOP is preaching to the choir with this Vietnam stuff - most voters aren't gonna give a shit

regardless, it's a non-issue...we're talking about events 30 years gone. as i have to assume that Bush is no longer the same party frat guy he was then, i will also assume Kerry has matured and grown as any adult is likely to do between ages 20 and 50.

as for the Al Queda threat, frankly, the administration simply no longer has credibility in this area. by their own admission, they have serious flawed intelligence capabilities...and the whole Bush re-election campaign depends on keeping the public scared. there is every reason to question the administration's spin and less reason than ever to believe it.

btw, that Gary Aldrich quote is a little ridiculous, no? why bother to quote a guy who assumes he speaks for 50,000 guys who have been dead for 30 years? hell, you might as well quote yourself for what that's worth
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Old 14-02-04, 10:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
his second tour of duty scoob.

five rows behind fonda, 3 years before she went to hanoi?



Quote:
the administration should concentrate their efforts explaining how bush jumped a 500 person que getting into the guard only to be so insignificant a presence the dentist who supposedly fixed this celebrity son of a congressman's teeth can't even remember him.
i'd hardly call him a celebrity. i could stand next to any congressmans son and not know who the hell he was. Besides, a dentist that probably saw thousands of patients a year for untold number of years can't remember some schumk 30 years ago? SHOCKING!

the Democrats should be ashamed for inventing this drama and trying to use it again (after it already failed once).
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Old 14-02-04, 10:40 PM   #25
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if you're going to stay in this debate at least try to keep up.

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Originally posted by span
i'd hardly call him a celebrity. i could stand next to any congressmans son and not know who the hell he was. Besides, a dentist that probably saw thousands of patients a year for untold number of years can't remember some schumk 30 years ago? SHOCKING!
tell that to the guys in the guard unit. the ones alabama knew about the "celebrity" (thier words) schumk (yours) coming in to thier unit from texas. they sure remember looking for him but they don't remember seeing him.

he's no hero, he may even be a deserter but had bush at least done some protesting i'd have a bit of respect for the guy.

kerry on the other hand is the real thing.

he fought for his country in battle and worked against the war in vietnam upon his return, doing both in service to americans fighting and dying there, while bush jumped queues and let others go in his place.

kerry was - and is - light years beyond bush the pretender.

- js.
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Old 14-02-04, 11:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
if you're going to stay in this debate at least try to keep up.



tell that to the guys in the guard unit. the ones alabama knew about the "celebrity" (thier words) schumk (yours) coming in to thier unit from texas. they sure remember looking for him but they don't remember seeing him.

he's no hero, he may even be a deserter but had bush at least done some protesting i'd have a bit of respect for the guy.

kerry on the other hand is the real thing.

he fought for his country in battle and worked against the war in vietnam upon his return, doing both in service to americans fighting and dying there, while bush jumped queues and let others go in his place.

kerry was - and is - light years beyond bush the pretender.

- js.
if he was a "deserter" then why did he get an honorable discharge? that seems to be something the Dems can't answer without resorting to baseless conspiracy theories.

also it's funny that the anti-war/anti-military party somehow now thinks military service is of utmost importance for a leader. Kerry might have been a war hero but he became a traitor to his own servicemen the day he called them all war criminals.
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Old 15-02-04, 01:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by span
if he was a "deserter" then why did he get an honorable discharge?
how indeed span, and how did he get to the head of a 500 man line? the answer to those questions should be examined.

as for your pictures, there are no dates, no context to those photographs but it doesn’t surprise me since it’s just more shallow republican propaganda attempting to belittle a hero by association. i’m sure we can all pull up pictures of bush standing near thieves and reprobates, criminals and conspirators much more recent than those 30 year images. and if the republicans continue in this fashion i’m sure we’ll see plenty of embarrassing bush shots. won’t that be educational? since you actually think they’re relevant i’ll be happy to plaster the board with them.

in spite of the hope you have in posting those shots that they somehow diminish kerry they do the opposite. i see a young man with the courage of his convictions willing to state publicly his beliefs, no matter how unpopular they may be in that company town washington, and willing to take the heat for them. the millions of young men, the thousands of veterans pinning hopes on somebody with the courage to do just that: to go up against the corrupt officials championing the war who would soon be in jails themselves. someone to take on a war that mcnamara himself the wars architect ultimately admitted was a terrible mistake but whose offices continued in sending young men to their pointless deaths. it needed to be done and we’re better for it. i juxtapose that with bush who escaped his duty by letting others serve for him while smugly taking credit for performing it, a man whose people continue disparaging anyone today, even those who fought bravely, because they didn’t agree with an immoral war their leader did all he could to avoid: this empty president who leads by manipulation and hides behind lies made to the very people he cynically claims allegiance.

- js.
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Old 15-02-04, 06:28 AM   #28
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John Kerry reminds me of...

JackSpratts

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Old 15-02-04, 07:49 AM   #29
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vote 1! herman munster
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Old 15-02-04, 09:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
how indeed span, and how did he get to the head of a 500 man line? the answer to those questions should be examined.

as for your pictures, there are no dates, no context to those photographs but it doesn’t surprise me since it’s just more shallow republican propaganda attempting to belittle a hero by association. i’m sure we can all pull up pictures of bush standing near thieves and reprobates, criminals and conspirators much more recent than those 30 year images. and if the republicans continue in this fashion i’m sure we’ll see plenty of embarrassing bush shots. won’t that be educational? since you actually think they’re relevant i’ll be happy to plaster the board with them.

in spite of the hope you have in posting those shots that they somehow diminish kerry they do the opposite. i see a young man with the courage of his convictions willing to state publicly his beliefs, no matter how unpopular they may be in that company town washington, and willing to take the heat for them. the millions of young men, the thousands of veterans pinning hopes on somebody with the courage to do just that: to go up against the corrupt officials championing the war who would soon be in jails themselves. someone to take on a war that mcnamara himself the wars architect ultimately admitted was a terrible mistake but whose offices continued in sending young men to their pointless deaths. it needed to be done and we’re better for it. i juxtapose that with bush who escaped his duty by letting others serve for him while smugly taking credit for performing it, a man whose people continue disparaging anyone today, even those who fought bravely, because they didn’t agree with an immoral war their leader did all he could to avoid: this empty president who leads by manipulation and hides behind lies made to the very people he cynically claims allegiance.

- js.
just say you like him because he's not Bush/republican, we know thats the only reason and it will save you alot of typing.
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Old 15-02-04, 11:45 AM   #31
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Old 15-02-04, 12:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by span
just say you like him because he's not Bush/republican, we know thats the only reason and it will save you alot of typing.

there are actually some reasonable Republicans, but given Bush's abysmal record, "anybody but Bush" is a perfectly valid reason to support Kerry,
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Old 15-02-04, 06:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
the republicans should be ashamed for inventing this drama.
now that’s rich…a liberal accusing republicans of inventing drama!

the left always play dirty every chance they get, it’s the one thing they excel at. kerry is running on the “i'm a war hero” platform, yet the right gets accused of inventing drama when they question, and point out the facts of kerry’s record. the left wants to question bush on his service record but the right can't question kerry on his?

now that it serves his ambition to be president, kerry reminds the public of his war record daily. but the dark side of that record is not being told by the media..of course. the despicable facts about kerry speak for themselves, they’re all on record…but the lefty’s can’t be bothered reading real facts. they’re too wrapped up in their frenzy to invent lies about the person they despise.

who accused bush of being “awol”? who accused him of lying? who accused him of being a traitor? who accused him of being a murderer? who equated him with hitler? who compared the iraq war with the vietnam war? who accused bush of planning the 9/11 attack and invading iraq before he was even president?

lol, you accuse conservatives of inventing drama?

liberals desperately try to tear down bush’s record, past and present..but they can’t…there are no facts to back up them up. republicans and other thoughtful, savvy citizens realize that bush's real "record" is that of an honest courageous and gallant commander-in-chief.

he's been commander-in-chief during the most traumatic time in american history since world war II. he hadn't been in office for a year when the planes hit the twin towers, but have the liberals noticed, or even give a damn that there haven't been any more such catastrophes. no.

i hope that the "hero costume" is torn from kerry, piece by piece, until he is standing with nothing but the ugly truth of his anti-military beliefs. although, that will only make him even more attractive to you extreme lefties…everyone else will see the real truth about him.
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Originally posted by theknife
"anybody but Bush" is a perfectly valid reason to support Kerry
what a stupid reason to base your vote on. you bear a hatred and malice toward bush that is difficult to fathom. i swear, the liberal extremists would vote for bin laden if it assured the defeat of bush.
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Old 15-02-04, 08:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by scooobiedooobie
what a stupid reason to base your vote on. you bear a hatred and malice toward bush that is difficult to fathom. i swear, the liberal extremists would vote for bin laden if it assured the defeat of bush.
don't personalize it, scoob, coz i sure don't....there's nobody on this planet for whom i harbor hatred and malice (and that includes my ex-wife) - life's way too short.

i judge the man on his record - you can play the liberal card coz if it makes you feel better, but i can go through Bush's record, foreign and domestic, point by point, and be quite comfortable that a vote against him is in the best interest of my country
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Old 15-02-04, 10:18 PM   #35
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tk, if you in fact truly judge bush on his record..not the liberal hyped up record…you would then be quite comfortable that a vote for him is in the best interest of your country.

by your posts you do seem to harbor a hatred for bush…but since you say you personally don’t, I apologize for the assumption.
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Old 16-02-04, 12:55 AM   #36
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Eek! i think he could be a kanamit in disguise..

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Old 16-02-04, 03:12 AM   #37
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Peace Fake picture...???

Quote:
Originally posted by span
[IMG]the Democrats should be ashamed for inventing this drama and trying to use it again (after it already failed once).
...talking about inventing stuff... take a look.

Frightening attempt to fake Kerry protograph...
Back story regarding the picture that, presumably, wasn't good enough...

Not really interested in this tedious merry-go-round about Kerry. He's another politician and I doubt he'll bring anything to a potential Presidency that any other schmook could bring. In the end, he'll play the 'hero' or 'security experienced' card as much as possible - largely because Bush has (probably unadvisably) defined himself as a wartime leader... Both are opportunistically playing with the still raw emotions surrounding 9/11 and Iraq, because both know that to campaign on any other issue would leave themselves open to the accusation of being 'soft' (or some other such mindless bullshit).

As for the whole, "he threw his ribbons/medals and criticised fellow soldiers = traitor" rubbish... Get real - as I understand, he was pissed off with many things: the conduct of soldiers in the field, the blind-eye turned by the respective administrations and the state that the US had found itself in after following a misadvised foriegn policy of social engineering. Amazing how history repeats itself isn't it?

To me, Kerry's an unknown quantity, and the chances are that he'll have plenty of REAL skeletons in his cupboard that'll damage him later on. At the moment, I'll reserve my judgement on Kerry, but let's say I'm less than convinced by efforts to paint him as a terrorist-sympathiser, a communist-lover, an America-hater with equations to Bin-Laden. It's populistic crap-ola designed to instill fear: "Don't vote for this guy, coz you'll die a horrible WMD death if he's in power". The Dems are no better: "Don't vote for Bush, coz you'll die in poverty, with no healthcare and you'll be so undereducated you'll be too stupid to realise it... Oh, but we'll change all that."

The 'impartial' line appears to be: "Don't vote for Bush, coz he's a pretzel-choking, war-mongering, big-business-money-funnelling moron... Oh and Kerry looks like a genetic monster, but don't let that fuck y'up - it's better than nothing".

If the Reps want to criticise him, they could concentrate on the mixed messages over Iraq or his lack of direct Senatorial involvement, or even the poor showing regarding MIA's. But they won't... it just isn't as juicy. Looking forward to a dirty, smear-fest campaign by both 'sides'.
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Old 16-02-04, 08:04 AM   #38
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the pic is fake eh? span's and scoob’s fonda association is a falsehood? why am i not surprised. again more lies from the right.

- js.
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Old 16-02-04, 08:43 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSpratts
the pic is fake eh? span's and scoob’s fonda association is a falsehood? why am i not surprised. again more lies from the right.

- js.
eh, it doesn't matter. Kerry will get pummeled on his record alone. the little pictures are just irrelevent extra's. If you think Bush will be focusing on Kerry's time after Vietnam or his association with Fonda you're a flat out moron. his flip flopping senate voting record is enough to sink 3 or 4 candidates.
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Old 16-02-04, 08:51 AM   #40
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eh, it doesn't matter. the little pictures are just irrelevent extra's.
how the bush camp apologizes for lying.

- js.
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