WASTE 1.6 "Special Edition"

[AngryGnome]

I've been using Waste for about a month or so now and have really been enjoying it. One thing I was curious about though is how many of you have tried the v1.6 "special edition?" When I first looked at Waste for possible use I went to their main website where the most current version is listed as 1.5 beta3. However, I also looked on wikipedia and found this:

"A "non-official" 1.6 Windows edition addresses some UI and privacy concerns."

Well... I was curious about what this v1.6 might have to offer and so I went searching for it. I found it here. So I personally use v1.6 and have never used any other version. I was just wondering how many of you use it also.

Also, the forum where v1.6 is posted has many interesting things related to Waste (including projects based on Waste). You can find it here.

Hope this is of interest to some of you.

-AngryGnome

[JackSpratts]

ok, just to be clear, the only "official" waste client is that of the developer justin frankel. released three and a half years ago it works surprisingly well for an application that hasn’t been publicly updated since, but it got the ball rolling as it were and hence the interest and the sourceforge project. while these have been called "official" releases they are really an offshoot of frankel's original client, modified by well meaning coders yes, but no more official than a mod you yourself might choose to develop - and since even these new updates have been dwindling of late it may just be a matter of time before other users take up the call and jump in with refined mods like crypton did last summer - or move along to something else, like a new system entirely.

it's fair to say then that all present modifications of legacy v.1 are ultimately "non-official." this distinction is actually an important one. it goes to the heart of something waste users hold very dear, and that is their own security. it's one thing to trust your fortune to frankel, it's quite another to put it in the hands of anyone who comes along claiming to offer "improvements." this is not to say sourceforge is somehow lacking in some respect. indeed, if any group should take on the project they are perhaps the most transparent. the issue instead is balance. that is to say how much are updates worth compared to the cost of possible vulnerabilities? that answer is highly personal, but suffice to say there are those whose needs lean more to sanctuary than expediency. this is not surprising. with so many regularly updated file-trading clients out there like utorrent and soulseek, there are plenty of choices for ease of use and speed, but if security is paramount the list dwindles quickly.

there are for-instance long-term meshes still using the original client, operating in complete anonymity and rigorously so, even after all this time. it's not particularly surprising; frankel's creation was a brilliant piece of work in 2003. in 2007 so it remains.

i haven't used crypton's modified sourceforge release and i probably won't, since i'm one of those users happy with the original official client, but if you and others get it going in a larger mesh angrygnome let us know how you fare.

- js.

[AngryGnome]

I have never used the original Waste client. Perhaps I will try it out. One thing I do like about v1.6 (this may also be true for other versions but I know it is not the case with the original) is that it acts as a standalone exe. You can run it without having to install. This is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll check out the original version sometime soon.

-AngryGnome

[Mazer]

Hell, Jack, you make it sound like there's no room for improvement.

So, most of the WASTE updates up 'till now have been cosmetic. Big deal. Official is a useless term in the open source world to begin with. Which one is the 'official' GNU/Linux distribution? There is no such thing. Is Cohen's mainline BitTorrent client the 'official' client, or just the one that came first? Bittorrent purists are actually shying away from the mainline client because it's designed to participate in BitTorrent's nascent commercial distribution network. Being the only client that is actively developed by the original Bittorrent creator doesn't make it the only useful one.

Frankel has disowned his own creations. He quit Nullsoft because he no longer had control over Winamp's development. He didn't participate in Gnutella's development after he leaked the source code almost seven years ago, and it still became ubiquitous without his help. Now WASTE is languishing in relative obscurity and has not attracted any new developers in more than a year. Useful as it is, it's becoming more dinosauric as time goes by while Frankel has moved on to bigger and better projects.

WASTE is the 8-track of secure file sharing. It's time for something better.

[vernarial]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Hell,
WASTE is the 8-track of secure file sharing. It's time for something better.

What would you suggest these days, Mazer? I know you still use Waste. Is there a better option? Just wondering, not looking for debate.

[Mazer]

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

in the meantime there are those who need objective information about this system now.

It's all there in the source code. Any and all security holes are visible, naked to the world. If the newer versions of WASTE were not as secure then either they would be fixed or nobody would use them. My advice to AngryGnome, use caution with any new software you try, but don't be afraid just because the original author had no part in this particular code branch. I'll bet there are coders out there who are just as talented as Justin Frankel, and I'd be willing to believe some of them had a hand in WASTE 1.6.

By the way, if I sound argumentative I apologize. Maybe I've been spending too much time in the Political Asylum.

Originally Posted by vernarial

What would you suggest these days, Mazer? I know you still use Waste. Is there a better option? Just wondering, not looking for debate.

Personally I don't have an other preference. WASTE appeals to my inner geek (not to mention my curiosity about human nature), but WASTE scares a lot of people away because they don't have an inner geek. I'd suggest any program that encrypts all communications, and while public key encryption sounds great in theory, WASTE's implementation is too complex. Programs that use web standard Transport Layer Security also use public key encryption, but they handle the key exchange transparently making them much more accessible to non-technical users, and when you take away the guesswork then network security inherently improves.

AllPeers looks like a good alternative, though it does lack a group chat feature. It doesn't organize users into meshes like WASTE does; all connections are one to one so you can add someone to your personal buddy list without exposing the identities or files that others in your buddy list are sharing with you. No permission is required which means you have total control over your connection to your peers.

WASTE by contrast builds webs of trust and forces individuals to consider other people because the actions of one individual can affect the whole group. This is not always a good thing, given the low level of rationality and maturity that many internet users demonstrate. I've seen groupthink split meshes apart and drive members away. WASTE just isn't for everybody, in fact it's not for most people.

I've learned a lot about prejudice and fear from my experiences with WASTE. The software is more like a mad scientist's social experiment than a serious file sharing tool, but it does the job as advertised. In the future I'd prefer to use an encrypted file sharing tool that does not raise animosity and make people afraid of the outside world, and my search for a program with those features continues.

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Hell, Jack, you make it sound like there's no room for improvement.

not at all - as long as the focus is security. why else use waste?

Originally Posted by Mazer

Official is a useless term in the open source world to begin with.

you’ve paraphrased my main point (and with less diplomacy) but agreed mazer.

Originally Posted by Mazer

Frankel has disowned his own creations.

disown is a strong word. it denotes action frankel hasn’t to my knowledge taken (for all i know he’s working privately). he’s appears to have lost interest in public collaborations certainly.

Originally Posted by Mazer

WASTE is the 8-track of secure file sharing. It's time for something better.

that may be (although i find important uses for it hourly), if the history of p2p can be our guide we all know that something will come along to replace it, but in the meantime there are those who need objective information about this system now.

- js.

[multi]

Originally Posted by AngryGnome

I have never used the original Waste client. Perhaps I will try it out. One thing I do like about v1.6 (this may also be true for other versions but I know it is not the case with the original) is that it acts as a standalone exe. You can run it without having to install. This is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll check out the original version sometime soon.

-AngryGnome

you can run the .exe without having to install with the first version of waste but the network protocol is not compatible with clients after 1.4 alpha3

now if this new version had some sort of switch you could add to the shortcut where it could run with either the early or later client might be bonus