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Old 23-08-07, 11:39 AM   #1
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Default The Enemy of my Enemy is New U.S. Weapons

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The Enemy of my Enemy is New U.S. Weapons
by James Dunnigan

One reason the United States has, over the last half century, accounted for over a third of all arms exports, is because of the heavy use of these sales to further political goals. Case in point is the recently announced plan to sell Saudi Arabia $20 billion worth of weapons over the next ten years. These would be used to bolster Arab defenses against Iran. At the same time, Israel is getting a 25 percent increase in American arms exports, from $2.4 billion to $3 billion a year, for at least the next ten years.

The Saudis are buying their weapons with oil money, Israel is getting most of their for free, as part of a long term effort to keep Israel the strongest military power in the region. This offends many Arabs, who openly complain about the thriving Israeli democracy and economy, making them and their neighbors look bad. But with the growing threat from Iran, many Arab nations, particularly those along the Persian Gulf, are starting to see Israel as an ally. Iran openly calls for the destruction of Israel, something many Arabs would agree with. But if it came to choosing between a hostile Iran, and a peaceable Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Unlike when past U.S. arms sales to Israel and Saudi Arabia were announced, neither nation condemned the deal the other got.

I don't know how the American government can trust the Saudis. But there you go....
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Old 23-08-07, 02:30 PM   #2
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The ruling class is filthy rich so with everything to lose they've got no motive to stir up trouble.
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Old 23-08-07, 04:58 PM   #3
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The US probably has weapons that can negate what the Saudis are getting. Then they'll sell them those when they have still newer weapons ready to go. I'm sure the US keeps the latest and greatest shit for itself and sells the chumps mildly obsolete weapons.
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Old 23-08-07, 06:33 PM   #4
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Wasn't it Saudis who flew the planes into the WTC on September 11, 2001?
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Old 23-08-07, 10:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
Wasn't it Saudis who flew the planes into the WTC on September 11, 2001?
To Sunni Arabs, ethnicity and religion transcend political borders, so if it didn't matter to them that they happened to be Saudis then why should it matter to us?
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Old 24-08-07, 05:36 PM   #6
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Apparently it matters to Bush. Countries that harbour terrorists are our enemies and all that crap. But he is still willing to sell them arms. Seems hypocritical. It doesn't matter to me what country we are selling arms to in my opinion. Selling the arms is wrong. Too often they end up getting used on our own military.
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Old 08-09-07, 10:02 PM   #7
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I don't know how the American government can trust the Saudis. But there you go....
How can the US trust the Canadians??????????

You sided with the British against us in the Revolutionary War and have hated us ever since.

We still consider Canada an "ally"...... Of course you directly border the continous 48 and we really have no choice.......

But there you go........

and since when does "trust" have anything to do with who we sell weapons to???

No doubt our weapons are sometimes turned against us but does this mean that if we stopped selling them that our enemies would give up????

Maybe Boeing should quit manufacturing airplanes......

Bottom line is our enemies will use whatever they can to hurt us and unfortunately the means may actually have been provided by us as horrible as it may be.

Do you really believe that if we refused to sell Saudis weapons that they wouldn't buy them from Russia or China and that some of these weapons would not end up being used against us also?

I'm quite confident that more US soldiers have died from foriegn made weapons than from US made.

Please name one ally of the US that DOESN'T recieve millions in weapons or aid from us.
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Old 08-09-07, 10:15 PM   #8
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Wasn't it Saudis who flew the planes into the WTC on September 11, 2001?
No....................they were terrorists!

No different than Timothy McVeigh. A Government or Country cannot predict what an individual or individuals choose to do.

Saudi Arabia didn't harbour the 9/11 terrorists anymore than the US harboured Tim McVeigh.

He could've blown up Big Ben or any other worldy target and the US would not have been guilty of harbouring the psychopath just because he was born here.
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Old 08-09-07, 10:33 PM   #9
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Sure our enemies will still get weapons, but I hardly think we should be helping them, and I don't think I(or anyone else) mentioned trust in connection to who we sell weapons to. I mean you put "trust" in quotes. What are you? An Albed clone? Always assuming and putting words into others peoples mouths? Judging people before you know them?

Sure they were terrorists. Saudi terrorists. Just like McVeigh is an American terrorist. We do harbor terrorists in the USA. According to Bush logic we should be bombing ourselves.
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Old 08-09-07, 10:46 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
Sure our enemies will still get weapons, but I hardly think we should be helping them, and I don't think I(or anyone else) mentioned trust in connection to who we sell weapons to. I mean you put "trust" in quotes. What are you? An Albed clone? Always assuming and putting words into others peoples mouths? Judging people before you know them?

Sure they were terrorists. Saudi terrorists. Just like McVeigh is an American terrorist. We do harbor terrorists in the USA. According to Bush logic we should be bombing ourselves.
Judged you? Where did I judge you?

If anything it is you oh diseased one that judged me, not only in my one post to the whining crying miss silver but again now because I dare point out how clueless you actually are.

I didn't put one word in your pathetic mouth.

I'm not sure how that is even possible with both of your feet in there and your head shoved so far up your judgemental ass.
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Old 09-09-07, 09:14 AM   #11
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C'mon man. This is a question mark. "?" That's what you put after a sentence where you are asking a question. See my post above for examples. I was wondering if you were an Albed clone, and from your response, it looks like I wasn't far off. Name calling and un-intelligent banter don't make you seem cool or smart. It makes you look like a fool. You responded to my post adding the "trust" part yourself. I have known albed to get the wrong assumtion from people before and add his assumtions to what others say into his own posts. Then you did it, so I asked if that was the way you were also. So I wouldn't have to judge you without knowing you a bit better. And you come off with a typical albed move of name calling. It only confirms my suspicions.
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Old 09-09-07, 10:10 AM   #12
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We do harbor terrorists in the USA. According to Bush logic we should be bombing ourselves.
You left out a significant fact. McVeigh was tried, convicted, and executed for his terrorist acts.
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Old 09-09-07, 03:40 PM   #13
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What about the South American terrorists living in Miami?
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Old 09-09-07, 04:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
What about the South American terrorists living in Miami?
well, i can explain that one: you see, you're only a terrorist when you blow up the planes of governments we like. when you blow up planes and kill civilians from countries we don't like, as did Luis Posada Carriles, then you're not a terrorist. that's why he's walking around free in Miami. it's all very relative. similarly, when other countries lock people up for years incommunicado, without trials, or habeas corpus rights, they are brutal repressive regimes; when we do it, we're defending liberty. when Saddam Hussein kills thousands of Iraqis, he's a vicious thug dictator but when we kill thousands of Iraqis, we're actually liberating them. (and no doubt the Iraqis themselves take comfort in this distinction, however subtle it may be.)

and so it goes - maybe they should call it "the war on relative terror", no?
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Old 09-09-07, 04:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
Sure our enemies will still get weapons, but I hardly think we should be helping them, and I don't think I(or anyone else) mentioned trust in connection to who we sell weapons to. I mean you put "trust" in quotes. What are you? An Albed clone? Always assuming and putting words into others peoples mouths? Judging people before you know them?

Sure they were terrorists. Saudi terrorists. Just like McVeigh is an American terrorist. We do harbor terrorists in the USA. According to Bush logic we should be bombing ourselves.
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
C'mon man. This is a question mark. "?" That's what you put after a sentence where you are asking a question. See my post above for examples. I was wondering if you were an Albed clone, and from your response, it looks like I wasn't far off. Name calling and un-intelligent banter don't make you seem cool or smart. It makes you look like a fool. You responded to my post adding the "trust" part yourself. I have known albed to get the wrong assumtion from people before and add his assumtions to what others say into his own posts. Then you did it, so I asked if that was the way you were also. So I wouldn't have to judge you without knowing you a bit better. And you come off with a typical albed move of name calling. It only confirms my suspicions.
Did you ever get the "suspicion" that you really are stupid? It would explain the name calling and the insults perfectly without resorting to speculation that people are clones or "just plain mean with no good reason".

Being stupid alone doesn't warrant abuse of course but thinking you somehow know better than people with vastly greater intelligence, education and experience shows the kind of arrogance and egotism that's both laughable and disgusting.


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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
It doesn't matter to me what country we are selling arms to in my opinion. Selling the arms is wrong.
Here's a prime example of Judge vernarial pronouncing his simple minded verdict that it's just "wrong". Pathetic when you consider all the millions of people who were massacred because they didn't have the weapons to defend themselves. But the Judge lacks the intelligence to consider even that simple bit of evidence.
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Old 09-09-07, 11:06 PM   #16
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How can the US trust the Canadians??????????
If you are serious I can get into it for you.

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You sided with the British against us in the Revolutionary War and have hated us ever since.
You making up history? Canada really was not a country until 1867 and the Revolutionary War was from 1775–1783. What the hell they teaching you guys down there? And yeah we hate you so much, Canada is your largest trading partner and more Canadians visit the USA then any other country in the World. OOhhh the Hate.....please.....

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We still consider Canada an "ally"...... Of course you directly border the continous 48 and we really have no choice.......
Really, is that the only reason we are allies? I did not know bording countries had no choice but to be allies. You should let Europe know this. It could have saved a lot of wars from happening. WWI and II included. Wow...why didn't Europe get this memo?


The rest of your post reads like something miss_silver would write and I will not respond, albed's response made much more sense, and don't say I hate Americans because it is complete BS. Find me a post that would make you believe that could be true.
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Old 09-09-07, 11:41 PM   #17
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I was wondering if you were an Albed clone, and from your response, it looks like I wasn't far off
Close enough man, it's more like albed who is the JC clone... LOL

Quote:
Being stupid alone doesn't warrant abuse of course but thinking you somehow know better than people with vastly greater intelligence, education and experience shows the kind of arrogance and egotism that's both laughable and disgusting.
Oh sure, you just proclaim you have vastly greater intelligence, education and experience and everyone goes "oh wow" can't argue with that..

What has always struck me as stupid is that you idiots actually think anyone takes any notice of that sort of self-absorbed,self-righteous fucking crap you guys love to spin.

While making seem like it may be just all good fun for you to generalize about peoples intelligence who disagree with your viewpoint , it always is just another dull typical way to avoid the subject and drag it off course.

Another fine example of arrogance and egotism
laughable and disgusting.... yes

you are a fucking joke
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Old 10-09-07, 12:18 AM   #18
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don't say I hate Americans because it is complete BS. Find me a post that would make you believe that could be true.
Anyone that isn't from the US must hate them

I believe this idea has been sold to the US public wholesale. (maybe there is still a few don't buy it )

I too am of course an American hater but never considered myself one.

But I have to say..
Many great things in the US that won much admiration from people elsewhere last century have been slowly dismantled bit by bit over the last decade.. and now it is looking like some bizarre sideshow freak eating itself. Myself I can't bring myself to hate anyone in any one country too much ,mostly because every individual is unique, the illusionary idea of borders do not matter much any more.... they are ancient lines that will slowly become obsolete over time.
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Old 10-09-07, 02:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by vernarial View Post
and I don't think I(or anyone else) mentioned trust in connection to who we sell weapons to. I mean you put "trust" in quotes.

You responded to my post adding the "trust" part yourself.




My initial post was in response to Sinners post that started this thread. Furthermore he quite clearly mentioned "TRUST" in connection to who we sell weapons to in that huge 15 word response to the article he posted. I then included it again in a quote in my post. Yet somehow you were and still are completely unable to figure this out. It was you that made "wrong assumtions" and then added those assumptions to your own post.

The quote clearly says "POSTED BY SINNER" not you, and the word trust is equally as clearly visible. I have since responded only to your judgement and completely false and wrong accusations to my initial post that didn't even involve you. It was you who judged me and put words in my mouth. It was after this initial post that I responded to your "who flew the planes" post. Yet your response to me wasn't about the only post of yours that I actually responded to and clearly about my response to Sinner.

Now back to my point that you have completely overshadowed which was that trust really has nothing to do with weapons sales. Regardless of the country, Canada, Saudi Arabia or Timbuktoo there will always be those individuals, whether they are a minority or the majority that will have their own agendas that could very well include using our weapons or aid against us.

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Old 10-09-07, 02:41 AM   #20
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You making up history? Canada really was not a country until 1867 and the Revolutionary War was from 1775–1783. What the hell they teaching you guys down there? And yeah we hate you so much, Canada is your largest trading partner and more Canadians visit the USA then any other country in the World. OOhhh the Hate.....please.....



Really, is that the only reason we are allies? I did not know bording countries had no choice but to be allies. You should let Europe know this. It could have saved a lot of wars from happening. WWI and II included. Wow...why didn't Europe get this memo?


and don't say I hate Americans because it is complete BS. Find me a post that would make you believe that could be true.
I was referring to the British using what is now Canada to launch guerilla attacks against us during the war then retreat back across the border and that we werent always best of friends with our northern neighbors for allowing the British to do this.

I love Canadians.......they go back home after their visits unlike the Mexicans.

No the fact that we border isnt the only reason we are allies but Canada does rely on the US for security and it is definately in our best interest to provide it because of this fact.

You are absolutely right I can't say you have ever posted anything hateful about the US and was I definately out of line for directing that at you.

I gotta stop reading Silvers posts.
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