Al Gore

[theknife]

now he grows a spine. today, speaking to the American Constitution Society for Law and Policy and The Liberty Coalition, on the Imperial Presidency:

What we do know about this pervasive wiretapping virtually compels the conclusion that the President of the United States has been breaking the law repeatedly and persistently.

A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government. Our Founding Fathers were adamant that they had established a government of laws and not men. Indeed, they recognized that the structure of government they had enshrined in our Constitution - our system of checks and balances - was designed with a central purpose of ensuring that it would govern through the rule of law. As John Adams said: "The executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them, to the end that it may be a government of laws and not of men."...

...Can it be true that any president really has such powers under our Constitution? If the answer is "yes" then under the theory by which these acts are committed, are there any acts that can on their face be prohibited? If the President has the inherent authority to eavesdrop, imprison citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture, then what can't he do?

The Dean of Yale Law School, Harold Koh, said after analyzing the Executive Branch's claims of these previously unrecognized powers: "If the President has commander-in-chief power to commit torture, he has the power to commit genocide, to sanction slavery, to promote apartheid, to license summary execution."...

...and the politics of fear:

Fear drives out reason. Fear suppresses the politics of discourse and opens the door to the politics of destruction. Justice Brandeis once wrote: "Men feared witches and burnt women."

The founders of our country faced dire threats. If they failed in their endeavors, they would have been hung as traitors. The very existence of our country was at risk.

Yet, in the teeth of those dangers, they insisted on establishing the Bill of Rights.

Is our Congress today in more danger than were their predecessors when the British army was marching on the Capitol? Is the world more dangerous than when we faced an ideological enemy with tens of thousands of missiles poised to be launched against us and annihilate our country at a moment's notice? Is America in more danger now than when we faced worldwide fascism on the march-when our fathers fought and won two World Wars?

It is simply an insult to those who came before us and sacrificed so much on our behalf to imply that we have more to be fearful of than they. Yet they faithfully protected our freedoms and now it is up to us to do the same.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Text_o...eech_0116.html

worth repeating: George Bush claims the inherent authority to eavesdrop, imprison citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture. does this even remotely resemble America? i think not - cue the I word and wake the house troll.

[albed]

You're confusing "spine" with "whine" which Gore always had plenty of.


I'd remind the poor dork about the Japanese-Americans imprisonment and the complete government control of war coverage in the media and the fact that almost every soldier's mail was read and sometimes censored during WW2, but his traumatic combat experiences in Vietnam have no doubt damaged his mind along with his credibility.





And what's the "I" word?

[Mazer]

Fear drives out reason. Fear suppresses the politics of discourse and opens the door to the politics of destruction.

I'd like to see the psychological research to support this claim. I think what Mr. Gore is actually describing here is phobia, not fear, and if I'm not mistaken he isn't qualified to diagnose this kind of mental disorder in other people. And even if he was a psychiatrist I'd question his motives since it is his political adversaries he is accusing of phobic behavior.

It is simply an insult to those who came before us and sacrificed so much on our behalf to imply that we have more to be fearful of than they.

So he's saying that those who came before us were also fearful. Did their fear drive out reason, did it suppress the politics of discourse? No, fear didn't misguide them and neither has it musguided us. It is partisanship, not fear, that opens the door to the politics of destruction, and invoking the stories of dead heroes for one's own political gain is a classic exapmle of partisanship. In a way it's a good thing our heroes are dead, because if they were alive to hear the way Gore is abusing their legacy then they really would be insulted.

[tambourine-man]

Repent sinners... Only Geena Davis can save you now!!!!

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Mazer

I'd like to see the psychological research to support this claim. I think what Mr. Gore is actually describing here is phobia, not fear, and if I'm not mistaken he isn't qualified to diagnose this kind of mental disorder in other people. And even if he was a psychiatrist I'd question his motives since it is his political adversaries he is accusing of phobic behavior.


So he's saying that those who came before us were also fearful. Did their fear drive out reason, did it suppress the politics of discourse? No, fear didn't misguide them and neither has it musguided us. It is partisanship, not fear, that opens the door to the politics of destruction, and invoking the stories of dead heroes for one's own political gain is a classic exapmle of partisanship. In a way it's a good thing our heroes are dead, because if they were alive to hear the way Gore is abusing their legacy then they really would be insulted.

nah, it's a little more basic than that: he's just wondering why modern "conservatives" are such pussies that they would gladly trade civil liberties and the rule of law for a benevolent dictatorship, all in the name of a permanent, unwinnable war on "terror".

[Sinner]

Warrantless Searches of Americans? That’s Shocking!

Except when it happens every day.

Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

link - http://www.nationalreview.com/mccart...0512201735.asp

or

The Truong court [United States v. Truong Dinh Hung, 4th Cir. 1980], as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. *** We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power.

When Al Gore was VP -- Former Georgia Congressman Bob Barr told “60 Minutes” that President Bill Clinton’s Echelon program intercepted “literally millions of communications involving United States citizens.” An NSA source says this included then-U.S. Senator Strom Thurmond.

Clinton also authorized the NSA to wiretap and search the home of CIA spy Aldrich Ames. He soon broadened the NSA’s authority to include “classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes.”

On February 9, 1995, Clinton signed Executive Order 12949, stating, “the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year.

Ronald Reagan had recognized the right to spy on foreign intelligence agents without a warrant, although he did not wage a hot war against Marxism (at least, not for more than a few days in Grenada). Even rock-ribbed Cold Warrior Jimmy Carter signed Executive Order 12139 on May 23, 1979, declaring that “the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”

The definition of “foreign intelligence” should make clear: this includes American contacts communicating with the other side. The FISA Act does not grant “an association which is a foreign power” the legal privileges of an American citizen. Thus, even if an American joins the Afghan-Pakistan-Iraq-based terrorist group called al-Qaeda – like Steve Earle epic hero, “American Taliban” John Walker Lindh – he is now fair game as a member of “an association which is a foreign power.”


Would you like me to continue?

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Sinner

Warrantless Searches of Americans? That’s Shocking!

Except when it happens every day.

Would you like me to continue?

well, you did leave out a key point: the Clinton administration complied with the FISA - they went back, after the warrant-less searches, and tried to get the warrants. Bush didn't. that's the difference.

edit: the Bush apologists like to claim the issue is warrantless searches - it's not. they also like to cite the Clinton administration as a precedent - it's not. the issue is compliance with the law - is the Prez above the law?

[Mazer]

No, the president is not above the law, period.

Now, if you still have issues with what he did then it's up to you to prove that he actually broke the law.

[albed]

The dems would have taken the matter to the courts if they thought they had a case. Instead they just use the cooperative media to spread their lies and half-truths as usual.

[tambourine-man]

"Those who believe in absurdity, commit atrocity" - Voltaire

[RoBoBoy]

Americans fought a revolution because of the abuses of power by the British colonial government. Writings left by many of the Founders indicate that in dividing the government of their new country into three branches - legislative, executive and judicial - they hoped to avoid the danger of an all-powerful presidency.

President's power grab threatens rule of law

[Sinner]

"We say legislate, they say investigate,” he bellowed to the outdoor rally. “We say educate, they say interrogate. We say illuminate, they say instigate. We say unify, they say vilify. We make the tough decisions, they take depositions. We find real solutions, they launch prosecutions. We know our future’s nearing, they want to hold more hearings."



-- Al Gore, October 28, 1998



EDIT -- Did Gore actually prove that the NSA wiretaps were illegal??,

[theknife]

heh

[albed]

Guess women aren't citizens in the liberal propaganda world.

The men of course get a higher pitch to their whining voice to complain better.

[theknife]

Originally Posted by albed

Guess women aren't citizens in the liberal propaganda world.

The men of course get a higher pitch to their whining voice to complain better.

you know, you used to be a lot better at this...just sort of going through the motions now, are we?

[albed]

At least I make my own posts instead of putting up some lame-ass cartoon.

[theknife]

Originally Posted by albed

At least I make my own posts instead of putting up some lame-ass cartoon.

yet you felt compelled to respond to this lame-ass cartoon - an irresistable urge to obey your conservatroll instincts and lash out, using rapier wit and a slashing counter-attack. ouch. pow. zap.

here's another - sic 'em:

[Belle~]

Hey the knife,

The 2nd "cartoon" did make me wonder why we aren't being "attacked by terrorists everyday with planes flying into buildings every twenty minutes and the Iraqi army in the U.S. massacreing people". They would if they could.

So we should do what.......wait until we are in that situation and then do something about it? Kinda like rebuilding your house after it falls down because the termites slowly chewed it to bits over the years, when you could have done regular termite inspections and prevented what was happening behind the drywall that you couldn't see until it was too late to do anything about it.

[albed]

Good one Belle. Knife's gonna need days to find a cartoon to address that.

[RoBoBoy]

Originally Posted by Belle~

So we should do what.......wait until we are in that situation and then do something about it? Kinda like rebuilding your house after it falls down because the termites slowly chewed it to bits over the years, when you could have done regular termite inspections and prevented what was happening behind the drywall that you couldn't see until it was too late to do anything about it.

No, you do it the right and expected way at the onset. You call the exterminator to handle it instead of you tearing out the walls trying to correct the problem yourself. You then must pay for rebuilding the walls you destroyed and held responsible for your reckless use of pesticides.

If Bush had bugs, he should have called congress.