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Old 03-12-05, 05:41 PM   #1
theknife
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Default wanted: a plan to stabilize iraq

so, you've been watching Bush give the same Iraq speech over and over, and you suspect he has no idea how to fix this mess? turns out you're right - he doesn't. in fact, the administration is looking for someone - apparently anyone - who does. step right up - the administration is offering a $1,020,000,000 grant to anyone with a plan. apply here.

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The United States Agency for International Development is seeking applications for an Assistance Agreement from qualified sources to design and implement a social and economic stabilization program impacting ten Strategic Cities, identified by the United States Government as critical to the defeat of the Insurgency in Iraq. The number of Strategic Cities may expand or contract over time. USAID plans to provide approximately $1,020,000,000 over two years to meet the objectives of the Program. An additional option year may be considered amounting to $300 million at the discretion of USAID. Funds are not yet available for this program.
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Old 26-02-06, 02:14 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknife
so, you've been watching Bush give the same Iraq speech over and over, and you suspect he has no idea how to fix this mess? turns out you're right - he doesn't. in fact, the administration is looking for someone - apparently anyone - who does. step right up - the administration is offering a $1,020,000,000 grant to anyone with a plan. apply here.
wait, some random civillian giving a plan? or the guys that are supposed to be "controlling" this mess? as bush, just admit this war was a HUGE mistake right before the election, and apologize to the soldiers in their graves.
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Old 26-02-06, 02:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by *the*knifes*son*
as bush, just admit this war was a HUGE mistake right before the election, and apologize to the soldiers in their graves.
Yup, that'll fix everything.
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Old 03-03-06, 09:33 AM   #4
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Here is my solution:

GTFO!
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Old 04-03-06, 12:49 PM   #5
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Kiss My Ass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazer
Yup, that'll fix everything.
yup, ya got that right. at this point i think bush is that desperate.*sarcastic*

im not meaning this literally, im just saying that bush got us into this deep hole, and now he knows it was the wrong decision, so now he needs to dig us out. in my earlier post, i realize that it wasnt the most intelligent post ever posted, but i was just referring to how bush is just a big laugh..
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Old 04-03-06, 06:24 PM   #6
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I hear ya, just saying that some people don't see the humor in it. It's all good with me, and welcome to NU.
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Old 05-03-06, 01:20 PM   #7
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If you would like to see how Saddam and his sons “stabilized” Iraq, rent a copy of the DVD “Buried in the Sand - The Deception of America”. Netflix has it, though I doubt if places like Blockbuster carry it.

Fair warning, it’s not for the squeamish. You will see actual video/audio clips of people getting their tongue cut out with a knife, their fingers chopped off, their head sawn off with (an apparently dull) knife, having their bare feet tied to a horizontal pole and held elevated while the bottoms of the feet are savagely beaten, and other such treats. The crimes these people committed? They annoyed or offended Saddam or his sons.

While you’re at it, ask a Kuwaiti citizen who went thru the Iraq invasion and Desert Storm if he/she thinks the U.S. is evil and wrong with it’s stance on Saddam & Co..
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Old 05-03-06, 02:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakonix
If you would like to see how Saddam and his sons “stabilized” Iraq, rent a copy of the DVD “Buried in the Sand - The Deception of America”. Netflix has it, though I doubt if places like Blockbuster carry it.

Fair warning, it’s not for the squeamish. You will see actual video/audio clips of people getting their tongue cut out with a knife, their fingers chopped off, their head sawn off with (an apparently dull) knife, having their bare feet tied to a horizontal pole and held elevated while the bottoms of the feet are savagely beaten, and other such treats. The crimes these people committed? They annoyed or offended Saddam or his sons.

While you’re at it, ask a Kuwaiti citizen who went thru the Iraq invasion and Desert Storm if he/she thinks the U.S. is evil and wrong with it’s stance on Saddam & Co..
right or wrong, it's been suggested that it took a brutal strongman to keep the Sunnis and the Shia from killing each other. nothing that is happening now contradicts that suggestion.
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Old 05-03-06, 03:24 PM   #9
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You and I know there are ways to solve social problems without employing brutal strongmen. We may not be getting the same results, but we're not using peace as justification for torture and mutilation and that has to count for something. Someday everyone has to grow up, and for Iraq the time is now.

Last edited by Mazer : 05-03-06 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 05-03-06, 04:15 PM   #10
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There is NOTHING that justifies the cruelty and brutality that Saddam and his sons inflicted on the Iraqi people.

Even freedom has responsibilities. If the Iraqis really want peace, they are going to have to stop the insurgency. They have freedom but don't know how to cope with it, such knowledge only comes from experience. Transition from a dictatorship to free republic will neither be instant nor orderly, and unfortunately not bloodless.

Transition to a free republic was certainly neither instant nor orderly nor bloodless for the United States. It could probably be argued that the process continues to date, with somewhat less expenditure of blood as differing viewpoints clash.

But, we have made some progress - you can offend the leader of the country and not get your tongue cut out, fingers chopped off, or head cut off.
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Old 05-03-06, 05:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakonix
But, we have made some progress - you can offend the leader of the country and not get your tongue cut out, fingers chopped off, or head cut off.
to date, the evidence does not seem to support this:

Quote:
Most bodies in Baghdad morgue show signs of torture, execution: UN rights official

[JURIST] The former head of the Human Rights Office [official website] at the UN Assistance Mission in Iraq [official website] has told the BBC that extra-judicial killings and torture have become "endemic" in Iraq, and that up to 75% of bodies in the Baghdad morgue show signs of torture or execution. John Pace, a diplomat from Malta, said that most of the killings were connected to Shiite militias directed by Bayan Jabr, a prominent member of the the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq [FAS backgrounder].

Pace also said that staff at the Baghdad mortuary face regular threats aimed at stopping autopsies and suppressing evidence, and that morgue director Faik Amin Bakir had fled the country after submitting a report identifying more than 7,000 killings caused by death squads, some of which operate within the Iraqi police. BBC News has more. The Guardian has additional coverage. In an interview with the Times of Malta last week, Pace said the US was "aware" of torture taking place in Iraq prisons, estimated that in December 400 of 780 bodies brought into the Baghdad morgue had gunshot wounds or wounds caused by electric drills, and said that non-existence of law and order has left Iraqi society without any protection.
...and never mind the military casualties - who on this entire planet really has the right to decide that (conservatively estimated) 30,000 dead iraqi civilians were worthwhile and necessary?

Quote:
People appreciate somebody who sets a tone, a tone that values life.
-- George W. Bush, June 5, 2000
ironic,huh? he sure set the tone.
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Old 05-03-06, 09:01 PM   #12
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So you're telling us that the Iraqis can't keep the peace despite the best efforts of torturers and death squads? What a shock.
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Old 06-03-06, 12:25 AM   #13
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Hint: These two paragraphs go together:

Quote:
Transition to a free republic was certainly neither instant nor orderly nor bloodless for the United States. It could probably be argued that the process continues to date, with somewhat less expenditure of blood as differing viewpoints clash.

But, we have made some progress - you can offend the leader of the country and not get your tongue cut out, fingers chopped off, or head cut off.
(I was talking about the U.S.)

The article posted says Iraqi death squads are primarily responsible for the torture and deaths mentioned, not U.S. or allied armed services personnel.

Hmmm I don't see any mention of tongues cut out, fingers chopped off or heads cut off. It's apparently down to gunshot wounds and occasional power tool accidents. Saddam & Co. killed and tortured thousands, the morgue lists 780 in the article. I would still call it an improvement (with obvious need for further improvement).

I didn't say that the conditions in Iraq are the summer of love right now. I did say: "Transition from a dictatorship to free republic will neither be instant nor orderly, and unfortunately not bloodless".

Look at the wording carefully in this:
Quote:
400 of 780 bodies brought into the Baghdad morgue had gunshot wounds or wounds caused by electric drills
(sarcastic) OMG how shocking - gunshot wounds in an area where there is an armed conflict going on (/sarcastic). I don't mean to belittle the value of life, I am pointing out how the presentation of the data in the article is being used to manipulate the reader.

Ask youself what kind of "facts" are actually conveyed by the information in the article:
What is the time frame of this body count? How many days/months/years?
Are any of these from Saddams mass graves that are being excavated and examined for evidence?
How many had gunshot wounds? Were all the gunshot wounds fatal or did some die from other causes? How many were shot as enemy combatants, executions, stray bullets, accidents, suicides, fire fights between feuding factions?
How many had wounds from electric drills? Were these wounds the cause of death? Were the electric drill wounds evidence of torture or simply accidents with power tools?
What about the 380 bodies (almost half the total count mentioned) conveniently left out of the "facts"? How did they die?
Who were the deceased - insurgents? Innocent Iraqi citizens? Soldiers?

The article fails to give any useful facts about the cause of any of those deaths, or even a time period in which they occurred.

We know from the data given:

1) During an unknown period of time, 780 bodies were counted.
2) The actual cause of death for any of the bodies is not stated.
3) Of these 780 bodies, 400 bodies had at least one gunshot wound of unspecified nature -or- had at least one injury of unspecified nature determined to be from an electric drill.
4) Of the 780 bodies, 380 (48.7%) go unmentioned (I wonder why).
5) Lawlessness and Iraqi death squads are blamed for the deaths.

Interesting that all the body count numbers are evenly divisible by 10. Many aspects of the article cause the reliability and accuracy of the data to come into question.

Since the Iraqis are doing this to themselves the "supreme solution" of "GTF out" being advocated would probably not have done any good to prevent these deaths, and if enacted will probably facilitate more such deaths. It would appear that more, not less aid is required to solve the problem.
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Old 06-03-06, 12:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakonix
But, we have made some progress - you can offend the leader of the country and not get your tongue cut out, fingers chopped off, or head cut off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theknife
to date, the evidence does not seem to support this:...
You neglected to mention how those people offended the leader of the country the way Drak's post you quoted specifies. Or is it just implied that someone killed has offended Iraq's leader.
edit-I was thinking Iraqi too
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Old 06-03-06, 06:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakonix
Saddam & Co. killed and tortured thousands, the morgue lists 780 in the article. I would still call it an improvement
I wonder how to phrased the thousands of death that Bush senior caused by his embargo since 1990. Could it be called a slight improvement? Yeah, a lot of ppl like to quote saddam and chem ali for their horrors but how many ppl can point at the US for killing thousand of childrens because of the lack of ressources the embargo caused.

Hell, I wonder why the UN recommended that Guantanamo bay must be shut down... Human rights violations? Torture? What about Abu Grahib prison and those soldiers that humiliated and tortured those iraqi prisonners? In my views, they are no better than Saddam and it's cohorts, they are even worse than them. But I reckon it's damned wrong when a leader does that to it's population but ok when the US army does it right? Or is it easier to turn a blind eye to your own troops wrong doing and blame the previous adm for the same action being taken place?

Beside, the US gov didn't give a flying fuck about Iraq since the gulf war, they were contended with the embargo. They started paying attention when Saddam decided to switch from petroUSdollars to petroeuro dollars. Iran is about to do the same thing, now they included them, along with Syria in the big great "Axis of Evil"

Jeebus, wonder how much kilo of shit must fall on someone head before they wake up and smell the bullshit.

Ever seen "Afganistan, the convoy of death"? it was on Passionnate eye (great docos every night on CBC) 2 years ago. It stated that hundreds of Taliban body were shot, execution style and burried in the desert by US soldiers. Saddam has his shitload of wrong doing to answer to but to say he killed so many, i'd take a hard long look in the mirror and reflect on how much the US gov killed Iraquies during the embargo up to the current occupation. The body count is much higher than anyone might expect but hey, it's not like the US gov would want this fact to be published on mainstream media.

LoL, i'm sure the king of cut and paste will manifest himself tomorrow with another clever cut and pasted article
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Old 06-03-06, 07:36 PM   #16
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Well I hope you're not refering to me as the king of c&p, but I do have a response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_silver
I reckon it's damned wrong when a leader does that to it's population but ok when the US army does it right?
It certainly is not okay for Americans to torture people, not even prisoners of war. That is why Americans who commit those crimes are punished for them, whereas soldiers from some foreign armies, say the Fedayeen Saddam and the Taliban, were encouraged by their superiors to torture prisoners. Americans aren't innocent, but they have far more conscience than their enemies.

Quote:
Beside, the US gov didn't give a flying fuck about Iraq since the gulf war, they were contended with the embargo. They started paying attention when Saddam decided to switch from petroUSdollars to petroeuro dollars.
I remember the last American president regularly ordered cruise missile attacks at targets within Iraq all throughout his administration. Iraq was not ignored after the Gulf War, but unfortunatly the president only fired missiles to satisfy his political interests instead of trying to solve the real problems in Iraq.

Quote:
Iran is about to do the same thing, now they included them, along with Syria in the big great "Axis of Evil"
Syria isn't an Axis of Evil nation, and has actually been much more docile and open to diplomacy since Iraq was invaded. Iran, on the other hand, has been a thorn in America's side for many decades and recently elected a maniacal tyrant as president. These issues go much deeper than the economics of oil.

Quote:
Saddam has his shitload of wrong doing to answer to but to say he killed so many, i'd take a hard long look in the mirror and reflect on how much the US gov killed Iraquies during the embargo up to the current occupation. The body count is much higher than anyone might expect but hey, it's not like the US gov would want this fact to be published on mainstream media.
If I remember correctly that embargo was levied by the UN, not the United States alone. All Saddam had to do was allow UN inspectors in to prove he had no WMD's and wasn't building any and the sanctions would have been lifted; it would have been so easy for him to comply. Appearently he thought it was more important to appear dangerous to other nations than to provide food and medical care for Iraqi citizens, and their blood is on his hands alone.
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Old 06-03-06, 10:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazer
Well I hope you're not refering to me as the king of c&p, but I do have a response.


It certainly is not okay for Americans to torture people, not even prisoners of war. That is why Americans who commit those crimes are punished for them, whereas soldiers from some foreign armies, say the Fedayeen Saddam and the Taliban, were encouraged by their superiors to torture prisoners. Americans aren't innocent, but they have far more conscience than their enemies.


I remember the last American president regularly ordered cruise missile attacks at targets within Iraq all throughout his administration. Iraq was not ignored after the Gulf War, but unfortunatly the president only fired missiles to satisfy his political interests instead of trying to solve the real problems in Iraq.


Syria isn't an Axis of Evil nation, and has actually been much more docile and open to diplomacy since Iraq was invaded. Iran, on the other hand, has been a thorn in America's side for many decades and recently elected a maniacal tyrant as president. These issues go much deeper than the economics of oil.


If I remember correctly that embargo was levied by the UN, not the United States alone. All Saddam had to do was allow UN inspectors in to prove he had no WMD's and wasn't building any and the sanctions would have been lifted; it would have been so easy for him to comply. Appearently he thought it was more important to appear dangerous to other nations than to provide food and medical care for Iraqi citizens, and their blood is on his hands alone.
LoL no, i'm not referring you as the king of cut and paste.

Ironically enough, the USA has been a thorn on Iran side aswell, what can you do about this? As you stated, you believe it has much more to do than the oil, are you so sure of your statement? QUICK QUESTION, do you still believe the lie your gov told you about those so called WMD that have never been found? Wait!!!, they will say that those weapons have been hidden in Iran, wouldn't be surprised if Bush would pull this awful lie off.

About a maniacal tyrant as prez, this is when you need to take a hard look in the mirror to guess who is the most tyranical of em all!!! Seems the phrase that Bush Junior said "those who arent with us are against us" would be a dead clue giveaway as to who is tha real terrorists aka those who are not of islam faith are infidels. Man, those to phrase equals the same to me, none is the wiser at all, either the faith ot the political propaganda.
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Old 07-03-06, 12:48 AM   #18
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Here is a genuine cut & paste from http://www.un.org/News/ossg/iraq.htm

(bolded emphasis added)

Quote:
Resolution 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990 imposed economic sanctions on Iraq, including a full trade embargo barring all imports from and exports to Iraq, excepting only medical supplies, foodstuffs, and other items of humanitarian need, as determined by the Security Council sanctions committee, which was also established by Resolution 661. The sanctions committee is chaired by the Ambassador of Ghana, with the delegations of Congo and Denmark providing vice chairmen. (Note: All 15 Council Members sit on the sanctions committee).
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Old 07-03-06, 02:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakonix
Here is a genuine cut & paste from http://www.un.org/News/ossg/iraq.htm

(bolded emphasis added)

Hmmmmm

Looks nice on a piece of paper doesn't it? Looks clean and humaine and full of good intentions. Unfortunately...

Quote:
UN organizations, UNICEF and the World Health Organization (WHO) report that more than a million people have died in Iraq over the past decade, as a consequence of the blockade. More than 500.000 children, below the age of five are to be counted among its victims. The comprehensive economic sanctions against Iraq were initiated in 1990 as a means of forcing Iraq to withdraw its troops from Kuwait. But the withdrawal of Iraqi troops and the recognition of all UN resolutions pending on this matter, did not bring a lifting of the sanctions. Instead the sanctions were linked to new demands.

These sanctions are the most severe sanctions in history, and also the most fateful: Child mortality in Iraq has more than doubled, one third of Iraqi children suffer under malnutrition, and many are permanently stunted in their physical and mental development. Even with humanitarian exemptions from the embargo and subsequent aid programs e.g. the "oil for food" program, are entirely insufficient to be able to prevent also the devastating social and psychological consequences of the sanctions.

US scientists Noam Chomsky and Edward Said have written that the embargo against Iraq is "not a foreign policy - it is state-sanctioned mass murder."

No political or other objectives can justify sanctions with such horrendous consequences for the life and health of the general population. The sanctions are in violation of fundamental human rights, numerous internationally binding conventions and international humanitarian law...
From

Here is some reading on the living conditions before and after the embargo.

Quote:
The humanitarian disaster
This section provides an overview of a number of aspects of Iraqi life from 1990 to the present. Important events during this period are the imposition of sanctions in August 1990, Iraq's first UN-approved oil exports under the oil for food programme in December 1996 and the start of the enhanced oil-for-food programme in May 1998. Between August 1990 and December 1996 Iraq received almost no external assistance, with the exception of some foreign donations for Iraqi Kurdistan, the northern three of Iraq's 18 governorates; against the will of the Iraqi government in Baghdad these have been administratively separated from the rest of Iraq since 1991.

The organisations collecting the data that we present in what follows are United Nations agencies, with the following exceptions. In April and May 1991 a Harvard Study Team (HST), an independent organisation of ten public health specialists, physicians and lawyers, travelled to Iraq to, "report on the effect of the Gulf crisis on the health and health care of Iraqi civilians". Part of their report was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. The sites visited by Team were chosen independently of the Iraqi government; they travelled with independent interpreters. The HST later became the non-governmental organisation, the Center for Economic and Social Rights. In 1996 the CESR sent a 24 person delegation of doctors, public health experts, economists, lawyers, and health surveyors from eight countries to Iraq. [HST; NEJM 1991, Lancet 1997]

The other exception is an International Study Team (IST) of 87 researchers in agriculture, electrical engineering, environmental science, medicine, economics, child psychology, sociology and public health. They visited Iraq's thirty largest cities in all 18 governorates and rural areas throughout the country in August 1991. They worked with neither Iraqi government supervision nor funding; they were were supported by Unicef, the US MacArthur Foundation, the John Merck Foundation and Oxfam-UK. The IST study is cited as a source by later UN documents.

Life before sanctions
Prior to 1990, when sanctions were imposed, "Iraq had one of the highest per caput food availabilities in the region, due to its relative prosperity and capacity to import large quantities of food"; The Economist's Economic Intelligence Unit actually puts Iraq at the top of this list by the end of the 1980s. With an estimated minimum requirement of 2,100 calories a day Iraqis were, on average, eating about 3,372 calories a day over 1984 to 1989; except for 1989 these were years of war with Iran. [FAO/WFP 1997; EIU 95/96, p.6 ]

Oil had moved Iraq away from its traditional mainstay, agriculture. By 1989 oil accounted for 61% of Iraq's GDP and agriculture for only 5%. Consequently, about two thirds of Iraq's food was imported before the war, even in years of good harvests. In bad years like 1989 domestic cereal production could fall to as low as 15% of needs. This amounted to imports of 3 million tons of cereals per year, or 8,220 tons per day (out of an estimated consumption of 10,000 tons), costing between $2 billion and $3 billion a year. [FAO/WFP 1997; WD 1992, p. 923-24]

Iraq's prosperity had not stopped at eating well. Adult literacy was reported to be 95% and Iraq boasted 22 Universities and Institutes of Higher Education [FAO 1995]. This well educated public built the Iraq described by John Field, a member of a 1991 Tufts University - Unicef mission to Iraq:

By the end of the 1980s, 92% of the population had access to safe water, somewhat less enjoyed modern sanitation, and an impressive 93% lived in the catchment areas served by modern health facilities. The government's network of health centers and hospitals was well disseminated, well supplied, well staffed, and effectively - if rather clinically - engaged with the populations in their jurisdiction. ... Iraq had converted oil wealth into enhanced social well-being with considerable success. ... Education expanded, child mortality declined, and life expectancy increased all quite impressively. [in Unicef 1998, p.2]

Iraq's public hospitals were free, attracting patients from throughout the Arab world. Many of Iraq's 9,000 physicians (one in 2,200 Iraqis) had trained in the UK; about a quarter were certified specialists. "Iraqi biomedical specialists provided some of the most sophisticated medical care in the Arab region. ... [but] relied heavily on import-dependent, high-technology curative biomedicine". While medical specialists tended to be male, female pharmacists and dentists outnumbered their male counterparts in hospitals so that women actually formed the majority in the group of doctors, dentists, pharmacists and specialists. Throughout Iraq, according to 1994 government figures, women slightly outnumbered men as specialists and technicians, partly in response to men's involvement in the war with Iran. [Unicef 1998, p.10]

Iraq's medical sector was not unusual in its reliance upon technology. Urbanisation had left Iraq dependent upon electricity for clean water and sewage treatment as well. [NEJM 1991] Unicef explains that,

South/Centre Iraq had an advanced system of 210 fixed water treatment plants which served urban and major rural areas and 1,200 compact mobile plants for mainly rural areas, with an extensive system of distribution pipes. Almost all water comes from the Tigris, the Euphrates, their branches and tributaries. Being surface water, most of the water systems require liquid chlorine gas and alum for treatment. [Unicef 1998 p.31]

Summing up its accomplishments, The Economist's Economic Intelligence Unit stated that, "the Iraqi welfare state was, until recently, among the most comprehensive and generous in the Arab World". [EIU 95/96, p.6]

Life and death since sanctions
On August 6, 1990, four days after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, United Nations Security Council Resolution 661 responded by stopping Iraq's imports and exports. There were a few technical exemptions to this: "supplies intended strictly for medical purposes, and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs". In practice, the United Nations Security Council, whose responsibility it was declare when "humanitarian circumstances" had arisen, did not do so until April, eight months later. During this time an "effective embargo" also applied to medical supplies, whose import, according to Dr Eric Hoskins, may have fallen to 3% of their usual levels during the bombing that occurred in early 1991. [SCR 661; Hoskins cited in WD 1992, p. 924].

In March UN Under-Secretary-General Martti Ahtisaari travelled to Iraq to report on conditions there and make recommendations for future policies. Civil uprisings against Saddam Hussein's regime by Iraqis across the country, verbally encouraged by the United States, were now, without any external support, being brutally suppressed by the government; by April, stability had been restored. Two million Iraqis, ten percent of the population, had been displaced in this unrest. In the midst of it, the Ahtisaari report explained that, "[n]othing we had seen or read could have prepared us for this particular devastation, a country reduced to a pre-industrial age for a considerable time to come." It went on to warn that:

the Iraqi people may soon face a further imminent catastrophe, which could include epidemics and famine, if massive life-supporting needs are not rapidly met. [MA 1991, p.13]

It went on to recommend that Iraq be allowed to import food and supplies to help it rebuild its water supply and sanitation systems. These had been badly damaged by the Gulf war.

Indeed, The Economist's Economic Intelligence Unit reported a 75% drop in Iraqi GDP from 1990 to 1991 alone, knocking it back to a similar level as in the 1940s. [EIU 96/97, p.13]

Electricity
Iraq ran on electricity. In the low-lying lands in the south of Iraq electricity irrigated and drained fields, preventing waterlogging and salinisation. Throughout, it powered hospitals and water purification and sewage treatment plants. Its failure would not only interrupt the activities of these plants but, by reducing pressure, would allow untreated water to backwash through the system. [IST 1991]

Thirteen of Iraq's 20 power stations had been damaged or destroyed during the first days of allied bombing. The two that were still in operation by the end of the bombing only managed to produce 4% of Iraq's pre-war output. By May 1990, repairs undertaken by cannibalising spare parts from other plants had brought generation back up to about a quarter of pre-war levels. By August the system was back to two thirds of its 1990 peak output but, without the imported supplies required for proper repairs, these were expected to be temporary and to pose increased safety risks. [NEJM 1991; IST 1991]

Water purification and treatment
By April and May, 1991 the loss of electricity had badly damaged Iraq's water purification and distribution infrastructure. The Harvard Study Team observed, "people collecting water from broken pipes surrounded by pools of murky water or even directly from drainage ditches". Loss of electricity had also caused Baghdad's two sewage treatment plants to stop working; one was later destroyed by bombs, spilling raw sewage into the Tigris River. Blockages in the system meant that even when electricity was restored raw sewage

leaked into drainage ditches, formed open pools in residential neighbourhoods, and contaminated water supplies. In neighborhoods in both [the southern port city of] Basra and Baghdad, whole streets were blocked by pools of foul-smelling water. [NEJM 1991]

In August, 1991 only one of the 18 water plants inspected by the International Study Team was working at full capacity. This was the result, not so much of the bombing and subsequent civil uprisings, of "lack of spare parts and chlorine". Raw sewage flowed through streets, where garbage was also accumulating. An estimated half of the public drinking water supply suffered fecal contamination. [IST 1991]

For Basra's million inhabitants the sanitation in 1995 was probably the worst in the country with, "huge areas of sewage water, sometimes green with algae and sometimes showing visible faecal material. These areas were grossly unhygienic and much of the city smelled badly as a result of these overflows". While there were increases in infectious diseases as a result the FAO Mission was surprised that the city, faced with such bad conditions, had managed to avoid major epidemics. [FAO 1995 p.8]

By 1997, every day saw over 100 tons of raw sewage being pumped into Iraq's major rivers, especially in the south, whose flat terrain required more expensive treatment plants with lifting stations. [Unicef 1998, p. 34]

The water supply system, a higher priority than the sewage system, was not much better off. Per capita water use had halved over 1989 to 1997 and less than half the rural population now had access to potable water in 1996, down from over 70% before sanctions. Iraq's water supply standards are based, ironically, on the US standards adopted by the UN World Health Organisation (WHO); by 1997 70% of Iraq's civilian water supply greatly exceeded acceptable levels. [Unicef 1998, pp. 27 - 34] The system had broken down:

Water treatment plants lack spare parts, equipment, treatment chemicals, proper maintenance and adequate, qualified staff. Loss of electrical power supply is a crucial factor, where extended power cuts limit efficiency. Further, plants often act solely as pumping stations without any treatment, due to the high demand for water. The distribution network on which most of the population relies has destroyed, blocked or leaky pipes. Further, there have been no new projects to serve the expected population increase over the past seven years.


Local supplies of chlorine and alum [for purification] are minimal. The major manufacturing plant for chlorine is unable to produce even one-tenth of the required 500 metric tons per month due to frequent breakdowns. Locally produced alum sulphate is impure, which ruins the water treatment equipment. Importation has not been possible. [p.32]

Impoverished Iraqis, unable to afford bottled water, were turning to the polluted rivers, spawning a host of communicable diseases, malnutrition and excess child deaths. [Unicef 1998, p. 27]...
From

I'm in no way defending Saddam but so far, the US imposed embargo on Iraq killed more than Saddam and it's cohort ever did. The embargo and the war on Iraq is simply wrong. It has accomplised almost nothing for the population, their infrastructures still need to be rebuilt. I don't know about you but after 16 years of this shit, i'd be mad as hell.
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Old 07-03-06, 02:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by miss_silver
Hmmmmm


I'm in no way defending Saddam but so far, the US imposed embargo on Iraq killed more than Saddam and it's cohort ever did. The embargo and the war on Iraq is simply wrong. It has accomplised almost nothing for the population, their infrastructures still need to be rebuilt. I don't know about you but after 16 years of this shit, i'd be mad as hell.

What US Embargo are you talking about? There has never been a US embargo on Iraq. There was a United Nations embargo put in place 4 days after Iraq invaded Kuwait and it was the democrats under Clinton's administration who helped keep it in place for 8 years after the war, not Bush.

Can you read or add?


The embargo did not last 16 years.
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