Police State ID Card Bill Passes Without Congress Even Reading It

[floydian slip]

3,000 page bill passage mirrors first Patriot Act sneak-through

At approximately 3:30pm today, Ron Paul's press secretary Jeff Deist called Alex Jones to warn him that the legislation that encompasses the national ID card and Patriot Act 2 provisions was on the verge of passing the House tonight.

Deist stated that the bill and what it means for America could be described in a word as 'tyranny'.

Deist's tone was the most concerned that Alex had ever known in his years of communication with Ron Paul's office. Alex made it clear how upset Desit was and that the situation reminded him of a 'war room atmosphere'. Deist and Ron Paul are desperate to mobilize the alternative media before the bill reaches the Senate tomorrow.

Its ok if you are a law abiding citizen.

Let me see you papers please, come with me, your papers seem to be out of order.

[tambourine-man]

Great. If you're doing it, Blunkett's sure to follow suit.

Gah... what's so wrong with anonymity?

[multi]

its an old iea over here..they wanted it back in '87
according to this similar plans in the UK are well under way...

Australia Card II debate needed

DECEMBER 07, 2004
THE announcement by Queen Elizabeth of plans for a compulsory identity card scheme for the United Kingdom has sparked discussion about whether Australia should consider a similar course of action.

The federal Government denied a few weeks ago it had plans to introduce an Australia Card-style national identification system, after an Australian Federal Police spokesman suggested it was time to revisit the idea.

Growing problems with identity theft and concerns over increased security and terrorism threats have prompted new interest in this subject.

The UK scheme was pushed by similar issues, along with the need to tighten immigration processes.

Population registration programs operate in several European nations, including Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands, among others, where community concerns over privacy issues rate less than in Australia.

Australia and the UK last operated identity registration card systems during World War II.

These were justified because of the scarcity of food and the need to monitor rationing, but they ended with the war.

In the United States, people are required to provide their Social Security Number to employers.

However, the SSN scheme is considered to have relatively low integrity since it is easy to falsify numbers and most employers can't check the validity of the number supplied.

Opponents of the UK proposal are citing privacy concerns, the huge costs associated with introducing such a scheme as well as the imposition on citizens to prove their identity and apply for the card.

Under the proposal, everyone over the age of 16 will have personal information, fingerprints and facial scans recorded as well as paying for the privilege of receiving a card.

According to no2id.net: "The Immigration and Nationality Directorate of the Home Office currently struggles to register half a million people a year – a visit to a UK immigration office begins with a long queue circling the building.

"This will be the reality of getting an ID card – an experience to be repeated every five-to-10 years of your adult life.

"Entry to the UK will be easier for tourists than for British citizens, who must have their biometrics compared against the ID register."

Then there is the increased imposition on businesses and employers, which must view and record card details, impose sanctions on people who don't have one, and presumably report to authorities on the results.

Once those sorts of systems are in place, it's a short leap to seeing more and more businesses classifying individuals by their unique number rather than their name and then begin sharing data based on that number.

The sad reality about many identity systems is that while honest citizens are forced to go through administrative rigmarole to prove who they are, organised criminals quickly find ways to rort the system with false documentation.

When the government proposed the Australia Card ID system back in the mid-1980s to combat tax evasion, welfare fraud and illegal immigration, the community responded with mass demonstrations around the country.

It would be interesting to see what the present sentiment is.

Certainly, former Privacy Commissioner Malcolm Crompton said the concept of an Australia Card was outdated and that we need to look for other solutions.

He told the 25th International Conference of Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners last year that new technologies offer great potential "to ensure that authentication challenges can be met at the same time as maintaining, or even enhancing, the dignity and privacy of individuals".

There have been suggestions in recent months that the new Medicare SmartCard associated with the Commonwealth HealthConnect program could be an Australia Card by stealth, because it includes an embedded microchip with a range of functionality, including the ability to store health data and a unique patient identification (UPI) number.

It is essential that all potential uses for this number are defined and made public, including what type of data can be linked to the card, who will have access and how it can be used.

The intense opposition to the original Australia Card proposal was partly the result of concern about function creep, because of a lack of detailed definition over the storage and use of personal data.

If there is any suggestion of a national ID system being introduced in Australia, it must be debated vigorously in the public arena before any decisions are made.

I believe that ICT professionals must figure prominently in any such discussion, since it will fall to us to design and administer the databases, biometrics recording and reporting systems associated with such a scheme.

I would rather see any money that might be used for a national ID program invested in developing systems that actually track identity fraud and bring criminals to justice without imposing unnecessary burdens on business and the community.

link

[tambourine-man]

Blunkett's been planning and mentioning this on numerous occaions. The issue usually gets raised in response to either an event of terrorism.

I guess we'll have to hope that the boogeymen have the common courtesy to apply for one.

[Nicobie]

As U might guess, I follow this kind of shit fairly close.

It's news to me.

If true..... It's time to revolt.

Fire every big govm'nt worker, then go to local rule.

[JackSpratts]

vote republican for: more spending, more laws, more tyranny, more government, less freedom.

it's just an amazing thing to watch.

- js.

[daddydirt]

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

vote republican for: more spending, more laws, more tyranny, more government, less freedom.

it's just an amazing thing to watch.

- js.

vote republican? is that what the dems were doing?

The Intelligence Reform Act passed 336-75 with 152 Republicans, 183 Democrats and the House's lone independent in favor of the bill, while eight Democrats and 67 Republicans voted against it. Twenty-two members did not record a vote.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/roll544.xml


In the Senate, an 89-2 vote, with Sens. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., and James Inhofe, R-Okla., casting the negative votes

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00216

[ranger121]

In the UK, Blunkett appears determined to force the issue of an ID card for all citizens on the pretence of it being convenient for everybody to have one. The card will (allegedly) be acceptable for entitlement for NHS treatment (which presently free and you don't have to prove who you are to receive it); benefits (turn up at an office with name & date of birth, good enough) the police (presently name & dob will do for a search for outstanding warrants, why would they need to know anything else? If stopped and searched, and you refuse to give a credible name & dob they'll arrest you anyway..) banking and other financial transactions (huh? I shop online with my credit card: don't need ID for that.)

To quote the duffer himself:

“The ability to prove one's identity reliably is an ever-more important aspect of modern life. A national ID cards scheme will provide a 'gold standard' for doing that, protecting individuals from the modern-day crime of identity theft, protecting public services for use by those who are properly entitled to them, and helping us tackle crime, terrorism, and illegal immigration and working.”
David Blunkett, Home Secretary

ID card strategy

You won't be compelled to carry the card. The element of compulsion is unacceptable to a majority. Services that are at present available without the need to produce ID will not be affected. So why should I pay the gov £35 - £85 (price to be confirmed) for something that I'm unlikely to ever use?

Secondly, what about the large population who are in receipt of benefits, for whom £35 - £85 is a large amount of money to find? Do they get one for free?

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by daddydirt

vote republican? is that what the dems were doing

the bills are sponsored, created and written by republicans, in committees chaired and controlled by republicans. the last-minute items that create such animosity and distrust of the corrupted process are snuck in by republicans. finally the bill is signed into law by a republican. the influence of democrats over the form a bill now takes is negligible. they can either obstruct the process and get nothing - or vote for it and at least get something, however seriously flawed. but they can't get what they want. the bill you see is the bill the republicans wanted, not the democrats. you’re really too modest. it's a thoroughly republican world in washington atm and the praise or blame lies with them.

- js.

[albed]

Can you really keep a straight face while claiming a bill supported by more democrats than republicans "is the bill the republicans wanted, not the democrats.".

You have to learn to camouflage your bullshit with a lot of extraneous words so your ridiculous statements aren't so obvious. And try using the shift key once in awhile. (just flick the boogers off your pinkeys and use them)



http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics...041208a. html

"Unfortunately, because of the insistence of Senate Democrats, some of those provisions, especially provisions dealing with national standards for drivers' licenses and asylum procedures, had to be dropped [from the final bill]," Hastert said.

[JackSpratts]

maybe they need vitamins...

we control the house, we control the senate, we control the whitehouse - but boo hoo - we're powerless against the democrats!

national standards/national ids

those drivers license provisions are part of the republican's big brother approach to this bill, which is after all, the point of this thread (hey albed – wake up). but for you folks who can't stomach civil liberties don't worry, the republicans will get those controversial provisions back in there in no time. probably very soon. it's something the democrats can't stop.

- js.

[floydian slip]

Four More Years to Create a Police State

President Bush has gotten four more years (almost certainly through massive vote fraud) to complete the process of setting up his NWO police state, and it is coming on fast now with the passing of Patriot Act II and a national identity card ("Your papers please!"). It also looks as if preparations are being put in place to carry out forced psychiatric testing of the population (see: "New Freedom Initiative" which passed Congress by a giant majority). This latter sign brings to mind the old Soviet system called the "Gulag" which operated a system of forced labor camps, which became a primary means of repression of dissidents, many of whom were placed there on trumped up charges of having psychiatric disorders. Yes, Bush's NWO is coming on fast. We'd better learn to get out of its way, and perhaps also learn the new skills and methods of surviving in a police state.

But first a brief digression....

snip
One can read Infowars' thumbnail sketch of the various provisions of the bill here.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/...owers_bush.htm

Here, quickly, are some of them, from the above link:

The definition of what a terrorist is expanded beyond that already overbroad definition in Patriot Act II.

Anyone U.S. citizen on the street can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. (End of freedom from unreasonable search and siezure).

It's illegal for anyone to tell anyone the location or anything about detainees. Law enforcement no longer has to tell the press whom they have arrested or release their names. (Beginning of secret police).

Sets up a national database for anyone with any connection to any suspected terrorist or suspected terrorist group, and sets up a national DNA database and orders states to collect DNA data for the federal government.

Gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people. (End of right to privacy).

Strips any citizen who is designated as a "terrorist" (under the newly broadened definitions) of all their rights. (End of "inalienable rights").

States clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal. (End of freedom of the press).

Allows wartime martial law without a declaration of war. (Police state).

Allows searches without search warrants. (End of 4th Amendment).

Allows secret star chamber courts to issue contempt charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. (End of 5th Amendment).

Makes certain "sunset" of Patriot I act permanent.

Allows the government to search your bank records and medical records. (End of right to privacy).

Allows federal government to take over state grand juries. Also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

Destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

Allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

Allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. (Call this the "Cheney Clause).

Allows big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security to violate their privacy agreements

Allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

Says you are "Providing Material Support to Terrorism" (and thus you are a terrorist) even if you had no intent to do so.

Any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce is now considered a "weapon of mass destruction."

Creates lifetime parole (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

Creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. (Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act).
end snip

more

[floydian slip]

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst122004.htm

In 2002 I asked my House colleagues a rhetorical question with regard to the onslaught of government growth in the post-September 11th era: Is America becoming a police state?

The question is no longer rhetorical. We are not yet living in a total police state, but it is fast approaching. The seeds of future tyranny have been sown, and many of our basic protections against government have been undermined. The atmosphere since 2001 has permitted Congress to create whole new departments and agencies that purport to make us safer- always at the expense of our liberty. But security and liberty go hand-in-hand. Members of Congress, like too many Americans, don’t understand that a society with no constraints on its government cannot be secure. History proves that societies crumble when their governments become more powerful than the people and private institutions.

Unfortunately, the new intelligence bill passed by Congress two weeks ago moves us closer to an encroaching police state by imposing the precursor to a full-fledged national ID card. Within two years, every American will need a “conforming” ID to deal with any federal agency-- including TSA at the airport.

Wake Up Amerika!!! This is an elected official talking!!

Most Germans thought that everything was OK in 1933. Just as most Americans think everything will be ok now. They elected Hitler too.

[JackSpratts]

"wake up"? lol, americans love this sh*t. everyone does. all over the world. tell 'em it's for they're own good and they eat it up. guns kill 30,000 a year, cars 45,000, hospital mistakes kill 100,000, booze i don’t know how many and cigs kill some 400,000 a YEAR but seriously, what good is liberty if every 10 years a few thousand die in an attack? it's good for nothin! nothing at all they'll tell ya. they want police states and they can't get ‘em fast enough.

nope, you want to fight this trend you'll have to fight your politicos naturally but you'll really have to fight your neighbors - and fight them hardest of all. good luck with that one.

- js.

[albed]

But it's too terrifying to fight. Too vague and terrifying and scary and vague because people can only describe it by calling it something vague and terrifying and you get the impression they don't have a clue what they want people to be afraid of.

But what it really is is change. They just have to stop change because it's so scary to them and they have to make other people afraid to get the help they need to stop things from changing.

So scare other people to stop the scary changes. You forgot to use the term 'slippery slope' though, I thought that was de rigueur.