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Old 25-01-04, 09:58 PM   #1
CORRUPTERBUSTER
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I just joined this forum yesterday because one reason is I like to read other people’s thoughts on things that are going on around the world and also in the internet world. In this thread I am not pointing any fingers at anyone in here and I don’t want to start any fights that can’t be won. Most of all, you all have your own views on how you see things that are going on with our country and our great government. I respect your views and respect the fact that you take the time to write these threads. I just hope that you all can respect me like I respect you.

Growing up in life I was too young to remember the war in Vietnam but through the years I learned a lot about the war through movies and documentaries. I have read books about all the wars that this country was in and it is sad to think how many Americans died in those wars. If you really take the time to think about it, think of the families that were left behind during those wars that is what is really sad.

I watched a documentary on Pear Harbor not long ago and thought of how many men died on that day. It was mostly service men that were killed but it was an attack on our own country. In that time and age after that happened thousands of men were standing in line to join the service to fight back to get even with Japan. The movie Pearl Harbor was a real eye opener on the attack even though it was all CG (Computer Graphics) it gave you an idea of what it must have been like on that day.

Then there were movies like Saving Privet Ryan and Band of Brothers. Which again gave you an eyes view of what combat must have been like. Those are all the classic wars that happened in the American History. We could go back in time farther but there isn’t any need to, because this thread isn’t about a history lesson. Almost all of you who will be reading this will have some idea of these subjects rather then going beyond the great wars.
The wars kept coming up time after time where the United States was involved, but then came the war of all wars Vietnam the classic arm chair General war, a war with out purpose yet we were just there. Back in the states we had protesters against the war over there and you start to understand why when you start reading why we were there at all, and then came another movie We Were Soldiers. That movie gave you a view of what that war was like. Now I know for a fact that a few people who are reading this were either there or here and you are the only ones that I have to agree with. That was a messed up war and we shouldn’t have been there because there was no reason for us to be there. So with that in mind I am going to leave this war alone.

On September 11th a day that will live in all of our minds forever written in the history books many people died on that day. What is so different from all the other wars this was an attack on the American people. This was a war of Terrorist, and it just happened to be at the time when President Bush is our President. The twin towers were already to the ground the people already dead and name on person in this world who would have acted and different then Mr. Bush did on that day. He was and is the President of the United States and the American people were looking to him for answers on how something like this could have happened. What if it would have been you or me at that time, what would you say or do? You would do the same thing. You would make sure that the American People would know you have things under control and you would also want to find the person or people involved in this strike against the American people.

There is one thing that I do know, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor they attacked a Military bases instead of Civilians. I am sure a lot of Civilians were killed but not like they were on September 11th. Our President declared war on Terrorist alone and not on one country. This right here is different from any wars we have fought in the history. The war against terrorist had no country no boundaries. It has no government, it does not care if you have a family or that you work hard for a living. Terrorist wars have no rules or laws. These people kill for their own cause and that is their religion a religion that was written thousands of years ago.

When President Bush declared war on terrorist he declared war on the world. This presented a problem when he did this, because you can bet that many countries were calling wanting to know where the American forces were going to hit first. So he had a dilemma setting right in his lap when he sat in front of his cabinet. At that time it was, where in the hell do we start and how do we end it? We all know where it had to start and that was with Bin L, which I will call him BL through the rest of this.

BL had made a big mistake however at the same time it was a clear message to the American people. That message was that we are not safe and free from things like this, he showed us that at any time it can happen without warning. Being such our President had to make some choices for our country even if they were the wrong choices. Everyone sets around and talks their crap about our government and I say if you can do better why don’t you give up your job and get into politics and stop crying like a bunch of babies. We are at war and this war is going to continue until the end.

My own father and Uncle are both Bush haters, and we talk about it all the time. And I tell them just like I am going to tell the rest of you. I wouldn’t have made a bit of difference who was President during the past few years, the Twin towers and Pentagon still would have been hit and the acting president would have declared war on Terrorist, and everything that happened up until now would have still happened.

This is a bad deal for everyone and that means me and you and everyone else in the world. With the war in Iraq that was more of a message then a war in my eyes. It was a message that we mean business and if you mess with us we are going to be camped out in your city by the following morning. It really is all about logic, and what was the logical thing to do at the time? O.K. we have BL on the run we don’t know where he is but we know he is out there. So now lets take over Iraq, get rid of Saddom and use Iraq as a center piece in the whole plan, and that plan none of us know but our government.

How do you think we caught Saddom? News papers say that the Americans had stopped looking for weapons and that they were letting up on security. Logic tells me that was planned to make people think it was alright to come out of their holes. And it worked great. We have Saddom now, and now all we have to do is waiting for BL to make the wrong move. Ease up on the hunt, he sends out is scouts and they report back to him that everything seems to be settling down and one morning we are going to hear the news either he is dead or we got him alive. This is all in the master plan that I think our government has. What about the American people though?

Things that are going on now are still going to happen, we the people can’t do anything about that and I know that is what sucks. Gas prices are still going to go up, and our home land security is going to have to suffer. Not long ago I went to the Air Port to see a friend off on his flight, and the man that was in front of him was complaining about how long he has to wait in line for his flight because of the security. I stepped forward and tapped the guy on the shoulder and said to him, “Your still going to catch your flight and you are still going to arrive at your destination so what are you bitching about”. He just turned around and didn’t say a word, but behind me I could hear people quietly applaud me.

We all have to take the deep breath from time to time, things don’t always go the way we want them to. We all learned that from growing up when we would go to the store with our mother and see something we really wanted and she would say no. It is the same thing with growing up. So what if we didn’t find any weapons in Iraq, we know where they are it is just a matter of time. In the mean time we all should just get ready for what ever comes and deal with it the best way we can. I have a lot of respect for people like you guys in this forum who do look out for our backs. This is what makes our country so great and it is people like you.

My Dad has always said; don’t judge a person until you walk in their shoes. I believe that and live by that code and I don’t judge anyone. Everyone makes mistakes even our President, but one thing is for sure when he wakes up in the morning he still puts his pants on like the rest of us.

Dedicated to Julie Hamilton PFC United States Army who gave her life in Iraq
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Old 26-01-04, 01:22 AM   #2
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Good post!

I generally agree with what you have said. I'm older (49) so I remember the Vietnam era well. The draft was on then, I registered for the draft as required. I had considered that my life would probably end in the jungles of 'nam, but I never got called up. I did end up doing a short stint as a civilian at a Naval Air Rework facility, working on airborne weapons. It was interesting work and I liked it, but I got laid off.

There's not a whole lot of choice for a President when things like 09/11/2001 happen. Lots of folks disagree with the invasion of Iraq. Unfortunately, something less would IMO be akin to letting the terrorists kill who they please with impunity - and that is obviously not acceptable. Simply stated, it was valid circumstances and proper time to do unto others before they do unto us. A delicate and touchy matter, but established in fact with or without an existing WMD stockpile.

Folks that criticize Bush seem to forget there have been existing chemical and biological weapons and manufacturing capabilities found in Iraq since the 90's. Mustard Gas shells, anthrax capabilities, castor beans (the source of the potent toxin ricin), traces of sarin, and prohibited longer range missiles. Saddam and friends say it was all destroyed in the early 90's. There are probably small stockpiles of such weapons still buried in the desert sands. Larger items, such as prohibited fighter aircraft have been uncovered buried in this manner. Iraq is a big place, it’s difficult to run all the sand through a sieve. Saddam might not even know where the stuff is, his sons might have - but they are both dead. Workers who buried the stuff were probably killed so that they could not reveal the location later.

The events that happened on 09/11/2001 were the culmination of years of planning and training by terrorists. It's effects will last forever. It's unfortunate that such conflicts exist where military and civilians die. Such is the price of freedom and liberty.

One of the reasons we were able to get Saddam is that he was a hated tyrant. His own people hated him so much they would betray him as long as they figured they could do so without being killed, tortured, or imprisoned. Sadly, Bin Laden is not this way. There is considerable respect for him amongst his people, and they will not be as willing to point soldiers to his location. Getting Bin Laden is likely to be a long effort.

The U.S. Government isn't perfect, and I do not blindly agree with everything it does. I do agree with Bush that a (global) war against terrorism is necessary for the security of all. It's a formidable but necessary undertaking. A lot of the success of this undertaking depends on how other countries support it. At the moment it seems hopeful.
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Old 26-01-04, 09:58 PM   #3
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CORRUPTERBUSTER...that was a most excellent post. thank you for taking the time to share it.

reading it brought to mind an article that tells the story of the american spirit regarding the tragedy 9/11, as seen through the eyes of a reporter in romania. it is indeed powerful.



ODE TO AMERICA

Why are Americans so united? They don't resemble one another even if you paint them! They speak all the languages of the world and form an astonishing mixture of civilizations. Some of them are nearly extinct, others are incompatible with one another, and in matters of religious beliefs, not even God can count how many they are. Still, the American tragedy turned three hundred million people into a hand put on the heart. Nobody rushed to accuse the White House, the army, the secret services that they are only a bunch of losers. Nobody rushed to empty their bank accounts. Nobody rushed on the streets nearby to gape about. The Americans volunteered to donate blood and to give a helping hand. After the first moments of panic, they raised the flag on the smoking ruins, putting on T-shirts, caps and ties in the colours of the national flag. They placed flags on buildings and cars as if in every place and on every car a minister or the president was passing. On every occasion they started singing their traditional song: "God Bless America!".

Silent as a rock, I watched the charity concert broadcast on Saturday once, twice, three times, on different tv channels. There were Clint Eastwood, Willie Nelson, Robert de Niro, Julia Roberts, Cassius Clay, Jack Nicholson, Bruce Springsteen, Silvester Stalone, James Wood, and many others whom no film or producers could ever bring together. The American's solidarity spirit turned them into a choir. Actually, choir is not the word. What you could hear was the heavy artillery of the American soul. What neither George W. Bush, nor Bill Clinton, nor Colin Powell could say without facing the risk of stumbling over words and sounds, was being heard in a great and unmistakable way in this charity concert. I don't know how it happened that all this obsessive singing of America didn't sound croaky, nationalist, or ostentatious! It made you green with envy because you weren't able to sing for your country without running the risk of being considered chauvinist, ridiculous, or suspected of who-knows-what mean interests. I watched the live broadcast and the rerun of its rerun for hours listening to the story of the guy who went down one hundred floors with a woman in a wheelchair without knowing who she was, or of the Californian hockey player, who fought with the terrorists and prevented the plane from hitting a target that would have killed other hundreds or thousands of people. How on earth were they able to sacrifice for their fellow humans? Imperceptibly, with every word and musical note, the memory of some turned into a modern myth of tragic heroes. And with every phone call, millions and millions of dollars were put in a collection aimed at rewarding not a man or a family, but a spirit which nothing can buy.

What on earth can unite the Americans in such a way? Their land? Their galloping history? Their economic power? Money? I tried for hours to find an answer, humming songs and murmuring phrases which risk of sounding like commonplaces. I thought things over, but I reached only one conclusion.

Only freedom can work such miracles!
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Old 26-01-04, 10:22 PM   #4
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Drakonix....just read your entire post. most excellent as well.



Quote:
There's not a whole lot of choice for a President when things like 09/11/2001 happen. Lots of folks disagree with the invasion of Iraq. Unfortunately, something less would IMO be akin to letting the terrorists kill who they please with impunity - and that is obviously not acceptable. Simply stated, it was valid circumstances and proper time to do unto others before they do unto us. A delicate and touchy matter, but established in fact with or without an existing WMD stockpile.
exactly.
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Old 27-01-04, 09:47 PM   #5
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I want to thank you for your replies, I don't know how I came up with it I just sat down and started writing. I just hope that my messsage makes people think.
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Old 27-01-04, 10:20 PM   #6
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curious, do you get any info from soruces other than hollywood movies, TV, and documentarys?


books maybe?


its admirable that you take the time to post yer opinons. now ill post mine.


baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Quote:
Originally posted by naz
this one's a no brainer ...
bush is a pussy, going for an easy stomping ... Iraq is about as scary as a bowl of rice pudding
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Old 27-01-04, 11:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by greedy_lars
curious, do you get any info from soruces other than hollywood movies, TV, and documentarys?


books maybe?


its admirable that you take the time to post yer opinons. now ill post mine.


baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
As a youngster I was too young to really understand, in my teens girls were more important however History was my favorite subject in high school. In college my thoughts were driven towards learning about getting drunk and finishing term papers on time.
Later on in life, Biblical history became a big past time and reading books, then that opened into American history, then came the Discovery Channel thus was born the History channel. I am what you call is a History junky, love learning about the things I should have known about when I was younger, and now I understand why my Grandfather and Dad and Uncle always talked about politics. It is like ahhh, now everything is clear now.
About movies, there is only a few that I knew which was true stories which was important to our history. Hollywood war movies have changed a lot that is why I mentioned it in the thread. When they do it right, they do it right. There was another movie that I forgot to mention in Hollywood best, which would be Hamburg Hill. In that movie it pretty much summed up that Arm Chair General War.

As for September 11th I don’t think I need to explain that, I was pretty much there like everyone else in the world.
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Old 27-01-04, 11:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by CORRUPTERBUSTER
...love learning about the things I should have known about when I was younger...
then you should enjoy the pm i sent you.

hamburger hill. platoon was better.

oh yea, btw, welcome to the underground.
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Old 28-01-04, 02:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by CORRUPTERBUSTER
The twin towers were already to the ground the people already dead and name one person in this world who would have acted and different then Mr. Bush did on that day.
I would have stopped reading the goat book to the second graders which el presidente did for 25 more minutes.

Welcome to the forum.

Have you ever heard of the Project for the New American Century?

Type "PNAC" into google. The first link is the actual website. You will see names like Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz as founders and members.

The rest of the links on that first page of googles are what other people thin about the PNAC.
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Old 28-01-04, 03:28 AM   #10
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FAO CORRUPTERBUSTER

Seems to me, that you are basing your opinion of what war actually is on the Hollywood version of events. Contrary to popular belief, Private Ryan did not exist. The Americans were not the only nationality who died on the beaches of Normandy, and they did not win the war single-handed, as Mr Speilberg would have you believe.

At Omaha beach, the Americans were unfortunate to meet the battle-hardened crack 352nd division of the German Army. It was the toughest assignment, and the US Army was on the brink of being pushed back into the water at one point, with the generals ready to pull out. Indeed, had Rommell been in Normandy at the time, and if the Germans had counter-attacked with the armour that they had available, instead of delaying because of their inefficient chain of command, then the whole Overlord operation could have failed.

Fortunately for the free world, this was a "proper" war, where the combatants wore uniforms and could be identified, and you knew who your enemy was. Korea, Vietnam, the Falklands, The Gulf parts 1 & 2, all could be said to be "proper" wars, between identified armies, with soldiers in uniform fighting battles against an enemy they could readily identify.

The "war" on terrorism, however, is a very different thing. Terrorists do not wear uniforms. They live and travel with you, buy you drinks, chat to you on the airplane, discuss the weather with you.

Then they pull a cord underneath their coat whilst yelling something about "Allah" (a God they would force you to worship, should they win their self-declared "war") and they murder you, your wife, and any other passing child in cold blood. They have no qualms about leaving a car bomb in a shopping mall and walking away. Terrorists cannot be defeated. For every one that dies in a suicide mission, four more are in the queue to become martyrs.

Alright, it could be argued that both the Allies and the Axis forces during WW2 bombed civilian populations (innocents?) but this was, after all, a declared war and you knew that the enemy was coming for you and generally the country gave you a gun and the means to shoot back. With terrorists, you don't even know who they are, let alone where they are going to strike, and how. It is the most cowardly form of warfare; but probaby the most effective.

Whether Bush and Blair were "right" the attack Iraq is the subject of great debate in the UK especially, indeed the Government has lost the confidence of the people over the issue of WMD.

The next move in the "war" on terror? Who knows?
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Old 28-01-04, 04:03 AM   #11
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just taken...



Quote:
CORRUPTERBUSTER
So what if we didn’t find any weapons in Iraq, we know where they are it is just a matter of time.
So what?...dont you think that if we really knew where they were / are they would be found? Dont you think its a little crazy to go to war because of these weapons that nobody has seen? So what we found some mustard shells rotting burried under the desert...Saddam obviously couldnt use them...so what Iraq had the capability to produce chem and bio weapons....the ones that he "had" were disposed of...burried, never to be used again. Just because we have a better way to dispose of that kinda stuff here doesnt mean that Iraq has the same...they were disposed of..burried...rotting...gone.

The whole reasoning Bush gave for going to war was because he and Tony Blair were positive that Iraq had and was going to use these mysterious WMD. Since then the public has been told about all the "mistakes" in the intelligence...whoops...too late to go back now huh? Mistakes like that should have NEVER...EVER been allowed to happen...thats part of what the UN is for...they obviously didnt see a threat in Iraq.

More on the UN and the US.....

It is very true that Iraq was not following the UN sanctions...it is not Americas right OR decision to invade because of that...thats a matter for the UN Security Council. Take a look at N. Korea... they have basicly told the UN to go fuck themselves...and started up their nuke production...is America going to invade N. Korea now...circumstances are the same right?...people being treated poorly, breaking UN sanctions, credible evidence that they are going for WMD (Nukes)...i mean, except for the huge fuckin pot of OIL under Iraq.

There is no way the bush administration can right this situation...they have lied and lied and lied some more, not only to the American people, but to the world time and time again. It is apparent that Bush believes war can somehow equal peace...i hope and pray for the day this country will get a real man in the white house who can avoid war and possibly teach others how to have a diplomatic and peaceful end to any situation.
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Old 28-01-04, 05:13 AM   #12
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=544&ncid=716


WASHINGTON - Senators want to speak with the former top U.S. weapons inspector who said he couldn't find evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, a primary justification by President Bush for the war in Iraq

David Kay is one of a number of U.S. officials who have recently adjusted their position on Saddam's weapons capabilities.

As special adviser to CIA Director George Tenet, Kay was chosen last year as the Iraq Survey Group leader in part because he was convinced weapons would be found. "My suspicions are that we'll find in the chemical and biological areas, in fact, I think there may be some surprises coming rather quickly in that area," he said on CNN in June.

Now, Kay, who was scheduled to testify before a Senate committee Wednesday, says he believes large stocks of weapons are unlikely to be found and blamed faulty intelligence for the misguided assessments.
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Old 28-01-04, 09:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
So what?...dont you think that if we really knew where they were / are they would be found? Dont you think its a little crazy to go to war because of these weapons that nobody has seen? The whole reasoning Bush gave for going to war was because he and Tony Blair were positive that Iraq had and was going to use these mysterious WMD. Since then the public has been told about all the "mistakes" in the intelligence...whoops...too late to go back now huh? Mistakes like that should have NEVER...EVER been allowed to happen...thats part of what the UN is for...they obviously didnt see a threat in Iraq.
we went to war based on intelligence and 13 years of history based on what the world and UN said. we went to war for many other factors as well. such as information from clinton's outgoing administration who had the same exact intelligence, and suggesting the same exact removal. clinton had the very same intelligence info as bush because he passed it on to bush. the difference however was clinton was too much of a wimp to act, as was/is the inept UN. 911 changed all that.

if you want to know all of the reasons we went to war....read bush's speech again.
Quote:
There is no way the bush administration can right this situation...they have lied and lied and lied some more, not only to the American people, but to the world time and time again. It is apparent that Bush believes war can somehow equal peace...i hope and pray for the day this country will get a real man in the white house who can avoid war and possibly teach others how to have a diplomatic and peaceful end to any situation.
you might analyze yourself under the same light. what would've been your peaceful and diplomatic end to the events of 9/11? should we have "talked nice" about that situation? maybe you could phone the whitehouse and offer your solution.

lefties never stop trying to re-write history to suit thier own agendas, and "bush lied" is about the extent of their mental retentiveness now. we've been shown intel for years, over and over again. we've been shown report after report, finding after finding, evidence after evidence ...and still they fail to acknowledge any of it.



Panetta Said Bush Did Not Lie About Intel

"Panetta is a former Democratic congressman, the former Clinton White House Director of OMB, and Clinton's former Chief of Staff. He is saying that Bush was not lying and that there is no Neocon/Zionist conspiracy.

He joins many other moderate Democrats, foreign policy experts, and Nobel Peace laureates who have maintained that Iraq possessed WMD’s and the potential to use them. Despite what liberal Democrats, liberal journalists, communists, anti-Americans and other Bush haters have been claiming, President Bush was not lying.

Panetta confirms what Democrat Senators Daschle, Levin, and current presidential candidate Kerry, who wrote, five years ago, to President Clinton, “We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U. S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. “

Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton said a year ago, “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, and comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”

All these officials of the Democratic Party, those who should know because they were able to review the contemporaneous intelligence information presented to President Clinton and President Bush, have all said what President Bush said.

There is no conspiracy. The only lies are those told by the Bush-haters and the Hussein-lovers."

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/t/t...glie102903.htm
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Old 28-01-04, 10:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gutrguy
David Kay is one of a number of U.S. officials who have recently adjusted their position on Saddam's weapons capabilities.
the media has been dishonestly quoting mr. kay out of context, in order to turn his assessments from being justifications for going into iraq.


repost.....

Kay: Bush Was Right to Attack Iraq
Tuesday, Jan. 27, 2004 10:58 a.m. EST

Critics of the Bush administration have seized on Iraq weapons hunter David Kay's pronouncement over the weekend that Baghdad didn't have any WMDs immediately before the U.S. attacked last March.

But Tuesday morning Kay gave President Bush a full-fledged endorsement on his decision to go to war.

In an interview with NBC's "Today Show," Kay told host Matt Lauer that the U.S. decision to attack was "absolutely prudent."

"In fact," said Kay, "I think at the end of the inspection process, we'll paint a picture of Iraq that was far more dangerous than even we thought it was before the war."

Kay described Iraq's government as "a system collapsing."

"It was a country that had the capability in weapons of mass destruction areas, and ... terrorists, like ants to honey, were going after it."

Meanwhile, Saddam Hussein "was putting more money into his nuclear program, he was pushing ahead his long-range missile program as hard as he could," Kay said.

Although Baghdad wasn't successful, Kay said Iraq "had the intent to acquire these weapons," adding that Saddam had "invested huge amounts of money" to do so.

The chief weapons hunter also debunked the notion that the White House pressured U.S. intelligence to exaggerate the Iraq threat.

"The tendency to say, well, it must have been pressure from the White House is absolutely wrong," he told "Today."
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Old 28-01-04, 10:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by scooobiedooobie
we went to war based on intelligence and 13 years of history based on what the world and UN said. we went to war for many other factors as well. such as information from clinton's outgoing administration who had the same exact intelligence, and suggesting the same exact removal. clinton had the very same intelligence info as bush because he passed it on to bush. the difference however was clinton was too much of a wimp to act, as was/is the inept UN. 911 changed all that.

if you want to know all of the reasons we went to war....read bush's speech again.
linky?...might as well re read it to bone up a bit...lol

Quote:
you might analyze yourself under the same light. what would've been your peaceful and diplomatic end to the events of 9/11? should we have "talked nice" about that situation? maybe you could phone the whitehouse and offer your solution.
To even think that 9/11 and operation iraqi oil freedom have something in common other than an excuse...then you might as well be one of the droning sheep that put bush up on a pedestol.

My solution to the "problem" in Iraq? Let the UN handle it like they have been for the last 10+ years...let them make asses out of themselves. Iraqs problems should not be our problems...we have enough of our own right here.

Who are we to say that Iraq needs a different leader? who are we to say they need a new gov't? who are we to tell them how to live?

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lefties never stop trying to re-write history to suit thier own agendas, and "bush lied" is about the extent of their mental retentiveness now. we've been shown intel for years, over and over again. we've been shown report after report, finding after finding, evidence after evidence ...and still they fail to acknowledge any of it.
Of course the reports the white house puts out arent gonna admit that bush has lied time and time again.

Something must be really, really wrong with our intel...i mean...how can we "know" where these invisible WMD are for as you say "years" and then not be able to find anything close?

Quote:
Panetta Said Bush Did Not Lie About Intel

"Panetta is a former Democratic congressman, the former Clinton White House Director of OMB, and Clinton's former Chief of Staff. He is saying that Bush was not lying and that there is no Neocon/Zionist conspiracy.

He joins many other moderate Democrats, foreign policy experts, and Nobel Peace laureates who have maintained that Iraq possessed WMD’s and the potential to use them. Despite what liberal Democrats, liberal journalists, communists, anti-Americans and other Bush haters have been claiming, President Bush was not lying.

Panetta confirms what Democrat Senators Daschle, Levin, and current presidential candidate Kerry, who wrote, five years ago, to President Clinton, “We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U. S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. “

Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton said a year ago, “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, and comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”

All these officials of the Democratic Party, those who should know because they were able to review the contemporaneous intelligence information presented to President Clinton and President Bush, have all said what President Bush said.

There is no conspiracy. The only lies are those told by the Bush-haters and the Hussein-lovers."

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/t/t...glie102903.htm

Wow...thats interesting...i especially like the part about the communists, anti-Americans and other Bush haters....and then the other funny one that went something like tThe only lies are those told by the Bush-haters and the Hussein-lovers.

Thats some of the funniest shit ive read all week...lol

Seriously tho...again i have to ask...if we have had the intel,how come we cant find anything?...how come the lead man from the team of inspectors says that there is nothing to find?...

Also, why not do the same with N. Korea havent they admitted they are telling the UN to fuck off? i mean, this is right out in the open and what is being done about it?
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Old 28-01-04, 10:43 AM   #16
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Originally posted by Gutrguy


Also, why not do the same with N. Korea havent they admitted they are telling the UN to fuck off? i mean, this is right out in the open and what is being done about it?
NK doesn't have a binding cease fire agreement and 12 years of resolutions telling them to not even think about it.
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Old 28-01-04, 10:52 AM   #17
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Originally posted by span
NK doesn't have a binding cease fire agreement

Help me out here isn't that all they have? (NK and SK) No pun. I was/am under the impression they never reached an actual peace treaty


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Old 28-01-04, 10:53 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Legion
Help me out here isn't that all they have? (NK and SK) No pun. I was/am under the impression they never reached an actually peace treaty
I meant a binding cease fire like the one with Iraq after GF1 that said destroy your WMD's and don't even have the equipment to make new ones.
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Old 28-01-04, 10:56 AM   #19
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Originally posted by span
I meant a binding cease fire like the one with Iraq after GF1 that said destroy your WMD's and don't even have the equipment to make new ones.
KK your right, they never had one like that
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Old 28-01-04, 12:27 PM   #20
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Wow...thats interesting...i especially like the part about the communists, anti-Americans and other Bush haters....and then the other funny one that went something like tThe only lies are those told by the Bush-haters and the Hussein-lovers.

Thats some of the funniest shit ive read all week...lol
you found that funny? not relevant....just funny?
geesh...funnier still is the fact that it was written by clintons former chief of staff...a democrat.
Quote:
Of course the reports the white house puts out arent gonna admit that bush has lied time and time again.
i assumed you were aware that the intel referred to, did not come from the whitehouse.
Quote:
Seriously tho...again i have to ask...if we have had the intel,how come we cant find anything?...how come the lead man from the team of inspectors says that there is nothing to find?...
that's not what he said.
Quote:
linky?...might as well re read it to bone up a bit...lol
it may be a good idea to bone up on a few other facts as well.

lol..as a rule most lefties don't believe this, but it's good idea to search and find info on your own, and base your conclusions on facts, common sense and logic.
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