What was Mr. Bush thinking?

[albed]

Originally Posted by theknife

oh yeah, the situation looks well in hand. those darn New Orleans Emergency Management officials just don't seem to be able keep an open mind:

Wow, a Canadian sissy! What's the world coming to?

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center,

OMG 7! THE HORROR!

I hear on the news about people viciously cursing the government for not immediately granting their wishes; fucking parasites have to support themselves for the first time in their lives and all they can do is steal from others and of course it's the government's fault.

But they're no different from the city politicians who also blame the federal government for not being ready to care for them when they get into trouble.

Does anyone actually take responsibility for their own lives in this country any more? Let the worthless, stupid fucks die off and the country will be better for it.

And ffs make it clear to the morons that if they rebuild and continue to live in that ridiculously unsuitable area they'll be left to die when the next disaster occurs.

[albed]

Originally Posted by theknife

do we keep pumping money into Iraq at the rate of almost a billion dollars per week, while we attempt to fund relief efforts in Louisiana and Mississippi with charitable donations? so the people of Bagdhad can bank on the US taxpayer, but the people of Biloxi and New Orleans have to count on charity?

wtf is wrong with this picture?

Hahahaha...what's wrong from a 'liberal' point of view is that people are free to give what they want to whom they want and the government isn't forceably taking people's money and doing what it wants with it reguardless of their desires.

Freedom is just plain wrong to your kind, isn't it knife?

[Drakonix]

oh yeah, the situation looks well in hand. those darn New Orleans Emergency Management officials just don't seem to be able keep an open mind:

Yes, given the severe nature of the storm the emergency response efforts are good. Normally, it takes at least 72 hours for emergency services to start kicking in after a major disaster. Plan ahead thinking significantly lessened that in part because some emergency services were waiting in nearby areas until the storm passed. We are just slightly beyond the 72 hour point on the hurricane landfall, and emergency services already have a good start.

I DID NOT say "things are well in hand". Of course they are not - this is only the third day following hurricane Katrina making landfall in Louisiana. Recovery from a natural disaster of this magnitude is not going to happen in a few days, or even a few weeks.

I DID say you can't expect "overnight miracles" which means there is no expedient solution. The solution takes efforts that can not be accomplished in a short period of time.

The "open mind" issue I mentioned is not aimed toward emergency services, and is clearly delineated.

It is a certainty that the efforts of the emergency services personnel (including the President and Federal Government) are more likely to result in actual disaster relief than political innuendo and bitching.

[goldie]

Sorry Albed but I like to think of something intelligent to say rather than spew anal sewage out of my mouth like you do.

I reiterate what I posted earilier in that i am not a political debater in the least. Right and wrong decisions have nothing to do with a particular political party and as one hurricane survivor said to press - it's not black thing or a white thing - it's a people thing.

I'm a humanitarian and would probably be called a liberal because of it, so be it.

Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of Alabama don't care about political parties or political agendas they simply want help now. Louisiana tried to get help in the past through the levee projects and the Corp of Engineers but the decision was made to cut the budget despite the Corps own protests (and proof of the dangers a major hurricanes effects) and that of its' citizens - that's the bottom line.

I guess it's easier to blame the drug addicted, poor, welfare poor, mentally ill or whatever "have-nots" you can throw in there for being in Louisiana, Miss., or Alabama.

As for Bush-blaming (for those who would call it such), I don't see one single person blaming a natural disaster on poor Mr. Bush. What I do see and hear (and it's there for all to see in the media) is blaming Mr. Bush and his administration for the not-so-wise decisions that they make and continue to make.

For ANY part of the U.S. to be compared to a 3rd world country by foreign countries is a disgrace and abomination. For anyone to still blame these people for not getting out when they had a chance is cruel and thoughtless.

It amazes me that the pro-Bush folks are in denial about this administration and no matter how many poor decisions that Mr. Bush and his cronies make. it will forever be lost on those that fail to see.

The bottom line is this administration didn't (and still doesn't) care what humanitarian services it cuts in order to fund the money trap so commonly called The War On Terror or for the support of big business.



Boston Globe (need subscription i think) -
National Guard
By Bryan Bender

The equipment the Guard needs to help in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is in shorter supply because the gear is in use in combat zones, is battle-damaged, or has been loaned to cover gaps in other units, the officials said. The National Guard Bureau estimates that its nationwide equipment availability rate is 35 percent, about half the normal level, according to Pentagon statistics.

''In the four years since 9/11 that we have been at war, equipment has been beaten up, blown up, or simply left behind," said John Goheen of the National Guard Association of the United States. ''States have had to borrow equipment and make do with a lot less equipment. We are short literally thousands of Humvees."

Meanwhile, in Louisiana and Mississippi, the states hit hardest by the hurricane, up to 40 percent of their National Guard troops are on active duty in Iraq. As a result, Guard commanders responding to the storm's havoc have been forced to look further afield for military police and other National Guard units and equipment from states as far away as Maryland, stealing precious time from the relief efforts.

But we all know that already don't we.......



As some of the worlds press sees it - some of which touches on U.S.'s part in the global warming problem:

BBC


I guess it's far too much to ask for if this president were to admit perhaps he made an error by cutting hurricane preparedness for the Gulf Coast. Probably an even farther stretch for him and his adminstration to offer an apology.

but i'll apologize for not being a real debater.

[albed]

Originally Posted by goldie

*reserved when time permits.

Just when I thought people couldn't get any lamer...make a post or shut up ffs.

[tambourine-man]

Originally Posted by albed

Just when I thought people couldn't get any lamer...make a post or shut up ffs.

Oh pipe down, numbskull.

[albed]

Reserved for tm bashing when time permits.

[theknife]

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/cl...i.families.cnn

Bush to women: "There's a Salvation Army center that I want to, that I'll tell you where it is, and they'll get you some help. I'm sorry.... They'll help you.....

Woman 1: "I came here looking for clothes..."

Bush: "They'll get you some clothes, at the Salvation Army center..."

Woman 1: "We don't have anything..."

Bush: "I understand.... Do you know where the center is, that I'm talking to you about?"

Guy with shades: "There's no center there, sir, it's a truck."

Bush: "There's trucks?"

Guy: "There's a school, a school about two miles away....."

Bush: "But isn't there a Salvation center down there?"

Guy: "No that's wiped out...."

Bush: "A temporary center? "

Guy: "No sir they've got a truck there, for food."

Bush: "That's what I'm saying, for food and water."

Bush turns to the sister who's been saying how she needs clothes.

Bush to sister: "You need food and water."

[Sinner]

Nice try knife, you should work for the NYT, they like to tell half-truths and tell half the story too. Good video though, shows how President Bush is emotionally involved and helping out in any way he can.


and goldie, The budget cuts have nothing to do with what is happened or happening in New Orleans - that is the bottom line....but...

“What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires — desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”

— Bertrand Russell, “Roads to Freedom”



In the rational world you do not shift funds going toward defense and war related activities esp. in the aftermath of 9/11. The levees were designed for a catagory 3 storm, not a 4 or a 5. In 2004 there were propals to upgrade the levees to be capable for a level 4/5 storm. Even if construction started, after the studies of course, it would have not been completed until 2008.

Do you really believe the Bush Administration does not care about the people in New Orleans? Do you really truely believe that? Things take time, help is coming in a huge way, everyone is doing the best they can right now, millions of people right across America want to help.

[theknife]

The big disconnect on New Orleans
The official version; then there's the in-the-trenches version

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 4:10 p.m. EDT (20:10 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Diverging views of a crumbling New Orleans emerged Thursday. The sanitized view came from federal officials at news conferences and television appearances. But the official line was contradicted by grittier, more desperate views from the shelters and the streets.

These conflicting views came within hours, sometimes minutes of each of each other, as reflected in CNN's transcripts. The speakers include Michael Brown, chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, evacuee Raymond Cooper, CNN correspondents and others. Here's what they had to say:

Conditions in the Convention Center


FEMA chief Brown: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. (See video of CNN asking why FEMA is clueless about conditions -- 2:11)


Mayor Nagin: The convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we are running out of supplies for the 15,000 to 20,000 people. (Hear Nagin's angry demand for soldiers. 1:04)


CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you.


Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.

Uncollected corpses


Brown: That's not been reported to me, so I'm not going to comment. Until I actually get a report from my teams that say, "We have bodies located here or there," I'm just not going to speculate.


Segal: We saw one body. A person is in a wheelchair and someone had pushed (her) off to the side and draped just like a blanket over this person in the wheelchair. And then there is another body next to that. There were others they were willing to show us. ( See CNN report, 'People are dying in front of us' -- 4:36 )


Evacuee Cooper: They had a couple of policemen out here, sir, about six or seven policemen told me directly, when I went to tell them, hey, man, you got bodies in there. You got two old ladies that just passed, just had died, people dragging the bodies into little corners. One guy -- that's how I found out. The guy had actually, hey, man, anybody sleeping over here? I'm like, no. He dragged two bodies in there. Now you just -- I just found out there was a lady and an old man, the lady went to nudge him. He's dead.

Hospital evacuations


Brown: I've just learned today that we ... are in the process of completing the evacuations of the hospitals, that those are going very well.


CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta: It's gruesome. I guess that is the best word for it. If you think about a hospital, for example, the morgue is in the basement, and the basement is completely flooded. So you can just imagine the scene down there. But when patients die in the hospital, there is no place to put them, so they're in the stairwells. It is one of the most unbelievable situations I've seen as a doctor, certainly as a journalist as well. There is no electricity. There is no water. There's over 200 patients still here remaining. ...We found our way in through a chopper and had to land at a landing strip and then take a boat. And it is exactly ... where the boat was traveling where the snipers opened fire yesterday, halting all the evacuations. ( Watch the video report of corpses stacked in stairwells -- 4:45 )


Dr. Matthew Bellew, Charity Hospital: We still have 200 patients in this hospital, many of them needing care that they just can't get. The conditions are such that it's very dangerous for the patients. Just about all the patients in our services had fevers. Our toilets are overflowing. They are filled with stool and urine. And the smell, if you can imagine, is so bad, you know, many of us had gagging and some people even threw up. It's pretty rough.(Mayor's video: Armed addicts fighting for a fix -- 1:03)

Violence and civil unrest


Brown: I've had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they're banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I've had no reports of that.


CNN's Chris Lawrence: From here and from talking to the police officers, they're losing control of the city. We're now standing on the roof of one of the police stations. The police officers came by and told us in very, very strong terms it wasn't safe to be out on the street. (Watch the video report on explosions and gunfire -- 2:12)

The federal response:


Brown: Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well.


Homeland Security Director Chertoff: Now, of course, a critical element of what we're doing is the process of evacuation and securing New Orleans and other areas that are afflicted. And here the Department of Defense has performed magnificently, as has the National Guard, in bringing enormous resources and capabilities to bear in the areas that are suffering.


Crowd chanting outside the Convention Center: We want help.


Nagin: They don't have a clue what's going on down there.


Phyllis Petrich, a tourist stranded at the Ritz-Carlton: They are invisible. We have no idea where they are. We hear bits and pieces that the National Guard is around, but where? We have not seen them. We have not seen FEMA officials. We have seen no one.

Security


Brown: I actually think the security is pretty darn good. There's some really bad people out there that are causing some problems, and it seems to me that every time a bad person wants to scream of cause a problem, there's somebody there with a camera to stick it in their face. ( See Jack Cafferty's rant on the government's 'bungled' response -- 0:57)


Chertoff: In addition to local law enforcement, we have 2,800 National Guard in New Orleans as we speak today. One thousand four hundred additional National Guard military police trained soldiers will be arriving every day: 1,400 today, 1,400 tomorrow and 1,400 the next day.


Nagin: I continue to hear that troops are on the way, but we are still protecting the city with only 1,500 New Orleans police officers, an additional 300 law enforcement personnel, 250 National Guard troops, and other military personnel who are primarily focused on evacuation.


Lawrence: The police are very, very tense right now. They're literally riding around, full assault weapons, full tactical gear, in pickup trucks. Five, six, seven, eight officers. It is a very tense situation here.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/kat...nse/index.html

[albed]

Originally Posted by goldie

Sorry Albed but I like to think of something intelligent to say rather than spew anal sewage out of my mouth like you do.

Well take your time and think and then click the reply button at the bottom of the thread instead of sticking it into a spot where it's out of sequence.

Are you trying to make people think your smarter than you are by doing it that way? There's a lot of other clues you'll have to hide as well.

[goldie]

Originally Posted by albed

Well take your time and think and then click the reply button at the bottom of the thread instead of sticking it into a spot where it's out of sequence.

do you think i care whether i need your approval albed.

[albed]

You can follow the protocol the rest of us use or have attention drawn to your pathetic schemes.

If it takes you a day to compose a post, don't be ashamed, just post it when you're ready and people will treat it like every other post.

do you think i care whether i need your approval albed.

You might have taken a little more time to make that grammatical gem though.

[goldie]

Originally Posted by albed

You can follow the protocol the rest of us use or have attention drawn to your pathetic schemes.

If it takes you a day to compose a post, don't be ashamed, just post it when you're ready and people will treat it like every other post.

You might have taken a little more time to make that grammatical gem though.

I can only assume at this point that you have nothing of significant intelligence to add to this thread albed accept your usual boring dribble.

obviously you are the weakest link.

goodbye.

[albed]

Originally Posted by goldie

I can only assume at this point that you have nothing of significant intelligence to add to this thread albed accept your usual boring dribble.

obviously you are the weakest link.

goodbye.

Don't you mean except? Yeah, I'm the fucking dimwit.

You probably mean drivel instead of dribble but wtf.

[theknife]

yet another fun and phony photo op by the action-figure prez*:

But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

*disclaimer edit: Action-Figure President Bush Set includes Action-Figure President Bush, Karl Rove, White House photographer, and photo opportunity.

All props such as ermergency personnel, military personnel, emergency and military equipment, and disaster backdrop not included. batteries also not included.

[theknife]

Stonewall Scotty, back in action.

Q Scott, does the President retain confidence in his FEMA Director and Secretary of Homeland Security?

MR. McCLELLAN: And again, David, see, this is where some people want to look at the blame game issue, and finger-point. We're focused on solving problems, and we're doing everything we can --

Q What about the question?

MR. McCLELLAN: We're doing everything we can in support --

Q We know all that.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- of the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA.

Q Does he retain complete confidence --

MR. McCLELLAN: We're going to continue. We appreciate the great effort that all of those at FEMA, including the head of FEMA, are doing to help the people in the region. And I'm just not going to engage in the blame game or finger-pointing that you're trying to get me to engage.

Q Okay, but that's not at all what I was asking.

MR. McCLELLAN: Sure it is. It's exactly what you're trying to play.

Q You have your same point you want to make about the blame game, which you've said enough now. I'm asking you a direct question, which you're dodging.

MR. McCLELLAN: No --

Q Does the President retain complete confidence in his Director of FEMA and Secretary of Homeland Security, yes or no?

MR. McCLELLAN: I just answered the question.

Q Is the answer "yes" on both?

MR. McCLELLAN: And what you're doing is trying to engage in a game of finger-pointing.

Q There's a lot of criticism. I'm just wondering if he still has confidence.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- and blame-gaming. What we're trying to do is solve problems, David. And that's where we're going to keep our focus.

Q So you're not -- you won't answer that question directly?

MR. McCLELLAN: I did. I just did.

Q No, you didn't. Yes or no? Does he have complete confidence or doesn't he?

MR. McCLELLAN: No, if you want to continue to engage in finger-pointing and blame-gaming, that's fine --

Q Scott, that's ridiculous. I'm not engaging in any of that.

MR. McCLELLAN: It's not ridiculous.

Q Don't try to accuse me of that. I'm asking you a direct question and you should answer it. Does he retain complete confidence in his FEMA Director and Secretary of Homeland Security, yes or no?

MR. McCLELLAN: Like I said -- that's exactly what you're engaging in.

Q I'm not engaging in anything. I'm asking you a question about what the President's views are --

MR. McCLELLAN: Absolutely -- absolutely --

Q -- under pretty substantial criticism of members of his administration. Okay? And you know that, and everybody watching knows that, as well.

MR. McCLELLAN: No, everybody watching this knows, David, that you're trying to engage in a blame game.

Q I'm trying to engage?

MR. McCLELLAN: Yes.

Q I am trying to engage?

MR. McCLELLAN: That's correct.

Q That's a dodge. I have a follow-up question since you dodged that one.

they actually have these conversations with straight faces.

Meanwhile, rank and file members of the press corps are increasingly frustrated with McClellan. One reporter suggested that they get T shirts made up emblazoned with one of Tuesday's more goading questions: "Is 'Brownie' still doing a heck of a job?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0801146_5.html