KaZaA Lies about the number of users it has online *the Proof*

[butterfly_kisses]

hi everyone....maybe you don't remember this but i do...KaZaA used to use a nifty little javascript counter that used cookies to make it look like they had a lot of downloads going on that they don't actually have....

this is a shrewd business move to get investors but not very good move for credibility

Here is that page that they forgot to take down :

http://bravo.kazaa.com/kazaa/dev2/index.htm

Please note: you must have javascript enabled to view the counters and you must be using some version of internet explorer particuliar versions 5 and higher

Watch the counter for a little bit...now clear your cookies and cache either manually or however you want to do it....now reload the page...notice that the counter Resets the count?

of course they lie and as Nicobie says, "the proof is in the pudding"

the 400,000 users you see when the counter is "broken" is actually the actual real number and the counter is "not broken" when you see this...its working correctly but their "spin guys" will

tell you otherwise...

if this gets too much attention EXPECT this link to go down and be dead soon


For those like Ethen with some knowlege of counters and scripts perhaps he or Dumwaldo can explain this trick better than i can.


-Harbynger

[AweShucks]

If I remember right /Dr.Damn\ "kazaalite" and the developers of gift have brought it up several times but it was never really known just how much Kazaa lies But by the looks of it ALOT!!

[ssj4_android]

Looks like that page might be lying too. Look at the source code for the javascript.

[ssj4_android]

//-------------------------------------
//
// set default variables

var iDownloadsLastWeek = 1278304;
var iUsersOnline = 420846;

// getInit
// =======
// base = initial number
// increment = amount to increment
// rate = how often to increment (in milliseconds)
// style = font attributes in standard pairs (see example below)
// range = the range to flucuate
// baseChanging = the initial number for the changing function
// rateChanging = the initial number for the changing function
// negative = whether to flucuate up and down

var gBase = getInit(21339923,"Nov 20, 2001",500) ;
var gIncrement = 1;
var gRate = 1000;
var gStyle ="color='#FFFFFF'";
var gRange ="50";
var gBaseChanging = getRandom(420000,550000);
var gRateChanging = "5000";
var gNegative =1;

function getValueFrom(v,s,n) {
var a = v.split(s), i, l;
for (i in a)
if (a[i].indexOf(n) != -1)
return a[i].slice(a[i].indexOf("=")+1);
return "";
}



function toInt(number)
{
var sNumber = number.toString();
var iPos = sNumber.indexOf(".");
var sInt = 0;
if(iPos == -1)
sInt= sNumber;
else
sInt= sNumber.slice(0,iPos);

return new Number(sInt);
}

function getRandom(min, max)
{
if(min > max)
return 0;

var iDiff = max-min;
return toInt( (Math.random() * iDiff) + min);
}

function getInit(init, datefrom, rate)
{
//rate is per day

var dNow = new Date();
var iFrom = Date.parse(datefrom);
var iNow = Date.parse(dNow);
var iElapsed = iNow - iFrom;
var milliperday = 24 * 60 * 60 * 1000;
if(iElapsed < 0)
return init;
else
return toInt(init + ( (iElapsed/ milliperday) * rate));
}

function numberString(number)
{
var sNumber = "";
var sTemp = "";
while(number > 0)
{
mod = number % 1000;
number = toInt(number/1000);

if(number > 0)
{
if(mod == 0)
sNumber = "000" + sNumber;
else if(mod < 10)
sNumber = "00" + mod + sNumber;
else if (mod < 100)
sNumber = "0" + mod + sNumber;
else
sNumber = mod + sNumber;

sNumber = "," + sNumber;
}
else
sNumber = mod + sNumber;
}

return sNumber;

}


function displayCounter(base, increment, rate, style)
{
if(displayCounter.arguments.length == 0)
{
base = gBase;
increment = gIncrement;
rate = gRate;
style = gStyle;
}

var newBase = base + increment;
var reg = new RegExp("\"", "g");
var IE4 = (document.all);
style = style.replace(reg,"'");
if(IE4)
{
if(typeof(counterDiv) == 'undefined')
{
document.write("<span id='counterDiv' name='counterDiv'>");
document.write("<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>");
document.write("</span>");
if(increment != 0 && rate != 0)
setTimeout("displayCounter(" + newBase + "," + increment + "," + rate + ",\"" + style + "\");", rate);
}
else
{
counterDiv.innerHTML = "<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>";
if(increment != 0 && rate != 0)
setTimeout("displayCounter(" + newBase + "," + increment + "," + rate + ",\"" + style + "\");", rate);
}
}
else
{
document.write("<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>");
}


return;
}

function displayChanging(base, range, rate, style, negative)
{
if(displayChanging.arguments.length == 0)
{
base = gBaseChanging;
rate = gRateChanging;
style = gStyle;
range = gRange;
negative = gNegative;
}

//--------------------
// retrieve cookie
var iCookieVal = toInt(getValueFrom(document.cookie, ";", "gBaseChanging"));
if(iCookieVal != "")
base = iCookieVal;


var newBase = 0;
var iNum = toInt(Math.random() * range);
if(Math.random() > 0.5)
iNum = iNum * -1;

newBase = base + iNum;

//---------------------
// save the new value
document.cookie = "gBaseChanging=" + newBase + "; path=/;expires=Tue, 31 Dec 2038 23:59:59 UTC;";

var reg = new RegExp("\"", "g");
var IE4 = (document.all);
style = style.replace(reg,"'");
if(IE4)
{
if(typeof(changeDiv) == 'undefined')
{
document.write("<span id='changeDiv' name='changeDiv'>");
document.write("<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>");
document.write("</span>");
if(rate != 0)
setTimeout("displayChanging(" + newBase + "," + range + "," + rate + ",\"" + style + "\");", rate);
}
else
{
changeDiv.innerHTML = "<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>";
if(rate != 0)
setTimeout("displayChanging(" + newBase + "," + range + "," + rate + ",\"" + style + "\");", rate);
}
}
else
document.write("<font " + style + ">" + numberString(newBase) + "</font>");
return;
}



function displayLastWeek()
{
var style = gStyle;
document.write("<font " + style + ">" + numberString(iDownloadsLastWeek) + "</font>");
return;
}

function displayUsersOnline()
{
//displayChanging();
var style = gStyle;
if(document.URL.indexOf("desktop") == -1)
document.write("<font " + style + "> | Online Now:<b> " + numberString(iUsersOnline) + "</b></font>");
return;
}

[Wanker]

That is not proof whatsoever. If you check that web page you can see that the number of users is just a constant there, probably some mock-up page for testing..

As for online users, several independent studies by p2p research companies have got same numbers, so I think it is accurate. It makes also sense if you see number of Kazaa downloads in download.com

[jaan]

hi folks!

great forum you have here (yes, i've been lurking a couple of months now).

Originally posted by Wanker
That is not proof whatsoever. If you check that web page you can see that the number of users is just a constant there, probably some mock-up page for testing..

correct.

FWIW, i can also confirm that the 1.5-1.8M number is correct (well, within +-10% anyway). the recent 300k-500k numbers have been caused by the new stats system breaking down, in which case the old system (that is only capable of covering a subnet of <500k nodes, however) kicks in.

- jaan

[JackSpratts]

hey, welcome to nu jaan! 'bout time you resurfaced! i hope you make us a regular stop on your path.

- js.

[butterfly_kisses]

Hi, jaan and wanker

FWIW, i can also confirm that the 1.5-1.8M number is correct (well, within +-10% anyway). the recent 300k-500k numbers have been caused by the new stats system breaking down, in which case the old system (that is only capable of covering a subnet of <500k nodes, however) kicks in.

okay to Wanker...wanker the number of actually users online in that link was a fixed number but the thing that strikes me as intersting is the counter script for how many downloads actually came from download.com can you not see that this is a ploy? and that it has no bearing on how many downloads they really had at all? it is a javascript counter that uses a randomly set variable to increment the counter based on whether or not you've visited that page before.


if you clear your cookies and revisit the page then you get the number reset to zero. My point is this:

If a company will lie...and make you believe they have more downloads then are really going on at download.com how can you believe that any numbers they give you are accurate or the "gospel-truth" so to speak.


Now as to those sites you claim show statistics...how do they "gather" these statistics.....SIMPLE they run the KaZaA program and simply write what it shows them

There is NO WAY that i know of to accurately measure the network unless of course you are an insider with inside information which i am not....however Sharman Networks is an so are the founders and developer's of the technology: Kazaa-BV

aka "the Fasttrack boys"

so sure Jaan if you have a way to do this...please explain it to me in neophyte (Newbie) terms so i can understand it and tell me how exactly it works and why you are so certain its an accurate representation of an actual figure.

thank-you both for commenting.

-Harbynger

[goldie]

Originally posted by JackSpratts
hey, welcome to nu jaan! 'bout time you resurfaced! i hope you make us a regular stop on your path.

- js.

It's real nice seein' you again jaan!

[jaan]

hi & thanks for the welcome

Originally posted by Harbynger
Now as to those sites you claim show statistics...how do they "gather" these statistics.....SIMPLE they run the KaZaA program and simply write what it shows them

i believe (hope) they perform actual traffic measurements on ISP level. note that several research companies have also estimated the number of files being traded each month -- you cannot really derive that number from kazaa stats alone.

why you are so certain its an accurate representation of an actual figure.

well, because i'm one of the "fasttrack boys". as far as the web numbers are concerned, i guess this was just a dummy figure indeed (note that the most recent version of kazaa webpage does pretend to know the number any more).

- jaan

[butterfly_kisses]

re: jaan

well, because i'm one of the "fasttrack boys". as far as the web numbers are concerned, i guess this was just a dummy figure indeed (note that the most recent version of kazaa webpage does pretend to know the number any more).

are you Janus Friis?

if so then a definite warm and hearty welcome to you.

I am a big fan of KaZaA though if you've read my posts you

know i hate BdE and you also know i hate dishonesty....

not that i would accuse you of that either...and since

this might be a surprise if you are indeed Janus whom i hope

you are then is "snowman" also one of the "fasttrack boys"

from his description of the network it would lead me to believe

that this is the case.

Being as how i am the biggest fan of KaZaA (the software and the TECHnology) than yes it would be an honor for me to talk to the creator or one of the creators of the software unless

i am in error in my guessing...am i?

and if i am then what do you mean by you are one of the "fasttrack" boys what role do you play if you are not the one whom i have hope that you are?

[TankGirl]

Hi jaan and a warm welcome - enjoy your stay at Napsterites!

- tg

[jaan]

Originally posted by Harbynger
are you Janus Friis?

i wish i were janus & niklas are the owners of fastrack, i'm just a developer. j&n are both really cool guys, btw, but - contrary to some press articles - they're not exactly programmers.

if you've read my posts you know i hate BdE and you also know i hate dishonesty....

i don't really blame you there. luckily it looks like BDE/sharman are trying to get their act together and do a better PR job in the future.

is "snowman" also one of the "fasttrack boys"

no, i don't think so. i remember from morpheus board that s/he used to be affiliated with MC.

- jaan

[indiana_jones]

hi jaan

welcome, i remember the lessons you gave about search coverage

maybe you are the one, who knows a way how to tell the client to accept a newly created startfile without restart.

indy

[Mowzer]

Welcome to napsterites jaan.

I just want to extend a thankyou for being part of a group of programmers behind the scenes that stood up and said no!

When Niklas wanted to start bundling the cydoor and all that extra junk.

(just being an ass. sorry.)

But I do want to say Niklas Janus maybe nice guys but they are more on the side of greedy nit wit status.

They also seemed to take all the credit for the work the underlings did.

I think KaZaA was the first real p2p titanic. For allot of it I would blame the captain.

Look at the rankyou example. A company starts a web page where people can pay to sign up for a secret club that would tell them about and let them download this amazing program.

So people gave club pie thier credit card numbers, and once inside they found out it was kazaa. They could have got it for free from the kazaa web site. lol

What is sader, is KaZaA did squat to stop them from ripping people off. Even though users complained, and complained, kazaa remained quite.

Why? Because KaZaA was partnered with Jamie leisure through advertising with Rankyou.com Clubpie.com was a little side project of Rankyou.com

Any way good laughs, but thats about it for kazaa. The linux project, the mac version, the company on a whole. One big joke.

I hope Niklas has better luck on his next endevors.

[jaan]

hi ethen,

i'm sorry you feel that way about kazaa. i cannot argue with you there though, because i've never had access to business details of fasttrack.

let me just say one thing though:

Originally posted by Ethen
I hope Niklas has better luck on his next endevors.

i think that labeling niklas "unlucky" is about the farthest you can get from reality.

- jaan

[BuzzB2K]

Originally posted by jaan
hi folks!

great forum you have here (yes, i've been lurking a couple of months now).

- jaan

Hi jaan

Thought maybe the "Litle Blue Men" got you...
Nice to see you again, hope to see more posts from you.

[Mowzer]

jaan,

Thanks for the reply. Although i am not a KaZaA fluffer like some, I am sure we could all post at length about the things we like about kazaa or the things we hate. Boring.

But what I would like to hear from someone who works behind the scenes is the direction you want p2p to take in the future, and what inisights you have in building a dream peer to peer client. That would be intresting reading.

Like fast tracks multi windowed client they spoke of on the fast track web site as being up and coming soon. What innovations would it have brought? Lastly what did happen to it or the idea of it?

Sorry if my last post may have seemed insulting. I was just ranting off on my feelings about kazaa and co. I didnt like how they squished gift, and offered crap all for linux.

[jaan]

Originally posted by Ethen
But what I would like to hear from someone who works behind the scenes is the direction you want p2p to take in the future

hehe, where should i start... oh yeah, i should start from the fact that i have a bunch of papers in my drawer preventing me from saying pretty much anything specific publicly...

but in general, i think in the coming year we'll be seeing new technology coming out (if not from FT then from its competotors) that'll improve upon the current bunch of p2p apps by greater margin than the FT clients did upon napster. call it 3rd generation filesharing technology if you like.

i can also see the whole p2p concept widening, and becoming even more mainstream and business-oriented than it is now. so eventually there would be communities of people and machines connected together in p2p fashion to address much wider set of problems than just finding media files.

also - although don't quote me on this - my personal belief is that soon enough we'll be seeing a trickle of authors, record labels, etc. seeing the benefits of p2p techology, and starting to jump ship, thus greatly undermining the current confrontation between "copyright holders" and p2p companies/users (ie the rest of the planet).

Like fast tracks multi windowed client they spoke of on the fast track web site as being up and coming soon. What innovations would it have brought? Lastly what did happen to it or the idea of it?

it pretty much got axed, because the new owners of kazaa chose the path of developing incremental updates and releasing them more often. i think that was a good decision, actually -- just see what happened to netscape.

- jaan

[prggr]

Originally posted by jaan
but in general, i think in the coming year we'll be seeing new technology coming out (if not from FT then from its competotors) that'll improve upon the current bunch of p2p apps by greater margin than the FT clients did upon napster. call it 3rd generation filesharing technology if you like.

So what kind of things would be in the next generation? As of right now, it seems Kazaa is pushing the system already as there's only a finite amount of bandwidth out there..