Features I need

[nanook]

incredible thread!!!

just my 2 cents. for i am one of the 56kers, of which u all speak.
i agree with goldenrod..........i would not even attempt to dl a movie. it is a waste of my time and the person in which i would dl.
if any of my speeds drop to 1kb or less, without peaking again, i will disconnect myself.
in the same fashion i get other 56kers, with speeds of .08 kbs and it's like they've walked away from the machine.
i would think, even they would like to get the song a bit faster than that. and all it does it take speed away from my ONE download i may have in progress or take spots from others in queue.
i send messages to no avail.
then it will drop to that 0kbs and they still haven't disconnected themselves.
i will usually disconnect, for there may be others in queue.
yes, in line for my songs, a 56ker.
they more than likely r hoping it is just the setting for 2 or more downloads, but i like giving the people what they want.
heehee

we also have to remember that the 56ker is of some importance to these "elite", of which goldenrod speaks.
we know that u come to us, when the queues get too much.
u come and download, knowing full well the speed u will get and u stay with us for the whole ride.
i know, cause i get them all the time.
i will then look and lo and behold they r downloading 26 FRIGGIN' songs at once. (yes i envy u)
but this happens at a time when i may be getting a decent speed, by 56k standards of maybe 6kbs, for my ONE download, and then all of a sudden it drops so this dsler can get that 27th song going.
i say NO.
and little old me will disconnect.
if it doesn't interfere with my speed, then fine, i will let it continue.
but come on. 26 songs at once. pah-lease.


i have no choice as to my 56k. i would love to have dsl or cable.
but being a bit out of town, neither comes out this far.
so be nice to us "country" folk, eh?

[butterfly_kisses]

nice post, nanook

and 2 all i am enjoying this thread (hence my staying out of it as i tend to cause too much trouble not always purposely tho')



to all who've posted their thoughts on this topic so far.

-harbynger

[indiana_jones]

i think, before "banning" users from a p2p net, there are still many options open to make intelligent clients which are able to resolve such differences in bandwidth.

so like FT does it by just dividing a fixed bandwidth by a fixed number of slots isn't really very intelligent and for sure not state of the art. there could be some more dynamic resource allocation anyway.

as for elite at all. of course you can buy junk food with you big pickup in supermarket near the highway en masse and very quick. but maybe this certain delicacy which makes live a pleasure is sold only in the small store in downtown with its narrow lanes, where you can walk on your own feet only

[TankGirl]

Originally posted by indiana_jones
as for elite at all. of course you can buy junk food with you big pickup in supermarket near the highway en masse and very quick. but maybe this certain delicacy which makes live a pleasure is sold only in the small store in downtown with its narrow lanes, where you can walk on your own feet only

An excellent point, Indy, and very true in my experience. There is plenty of mainstream stuff of average or uncertain quality available on the big public networks but if you look for rarer material and quality you may find it better from private, dedicated collectors and small non-public or semi-public groups.

Your vision is very nice - who knows if we will see something similar actually implemented in the p2p software to come.

- tg

[JohnDoe345]

Originally posted by TankGirl

For example if you download at 30 k/s, you need about 3 k/s upstream for your own downloads....Let's say your cable allows you 150 k/s downloads but your upload bandwidth is capped at 15 k/s. Should you want to utilize your full download bandwidth you would actually need your whole upload bandwidth for the reverse traffic generated. This is of course an extreme situation and would also require a source that can feed you with such a speed.

Yes, I knew it had to be something like this. I've heard references to it before in other forums, but now hearing it from God herself I mean TG it has more creditbility to others reading this.

Originally posted by TankGirl

Anyway, I recommend you to experiment to find a good setting for your dedicated upload bandwidth. Even a 1 k/s difference in the setting can have a drastic effect on your own download speeds in situations where you have heavy uploading going on.

I guess I forgot to mention that I've already done that and have adjusted my settings to a pretty good balance between uploads and downloads. Although, the underlining theme in this whole issue is that the users have to adjust their settings more often then they should. It's been mentioned several times in this thread but there needs to be some automated bandwidth control system that the user can adjust manually if need be. Not only is it good for convenience but it will also keep honest people honest.

For example, I do come across those times when 1 k/s difference does mean a lot and it can be tempting to just knock off a couple of k/s in your uploads to speed up your downloads. I'm just jumping to conclusions here but I believe that some users keep pushing this until they end up not sharing anymore.

I like the system that eDonkey uses that limits your download speeds depending how much you upload. Although, it's not a perfect system, but in my opinion it's a step in the right direction. My biggest grip with eDonkey is that its downloading consistency isn't all too great. For example, on FastTrack usually I can get an almost constant download speed whereas on eDonkey it varies a lot and usually stays at 0 k/s for a long time. Anyhow, that's a different issue entirely.

Originally posted by indiana_jones

as for elite at all. of course you can buy junk food with you big pickup in supermarket near the highway en masse and very quick. but maybe this certain delicacy which makes live a pleasure is sold only in the small store in downtown with its narrow lanes, where you can walk on your own feet only

Originally posted by TankGirl

There is plenty of mainstream stuff of average or uncertain quality available on the big public networks but if you look for rarer material and quality you may find it better from private, dedicated collectors and small non-public or semi-public groups.

Yes, very good points both of you. I've also experience this first hand myself. I compare the two networks to large brand name companies/large p2p groups vs "mom and pop" stores/small or private p2p groups. For quality and service you have to go to the smaller groups but for a larget selection and more sources you need to go to the larger groups.

For example, if you become a regular in one DC hub you get to know some of the other regulars. When friendships are made you are more willing to help them out and vice versa. An example of this is when you ask the group if they have some file. Even if no one is sharing at the moment some of them have told me that they have it on CD and can put it on their hard drive. Not something most users are willing to do on larger p2p groups. I've also noticed that they are more willing to tell me problems with the files or even recommend others that I might want. Basically, it becomes a community. Users get to see first hand how their good efforts can directly improve the group whereas on larger p2p programs I keep hearing complaints about users uploading 50 k/s only to download .6 k/s. It's not surprising that these users become jaded about helping others.

The large p2p programs are more impersonal like a large brand name store. You go in take what you want and if you are not a rude person you try not to disrupt the environment too much or other "customers" but I've noticed that users don't try to help each others out like they do in smaller groups. You can find a lot files available even good quality but it's a more of a help yourself environment.

Both have their good and bad points and I go to either one depending on what I want at the time.

[SA_Dave]

I didn't consider these 'asynchronous' services (although I've heard of them) as they don't exist here yet. Still, just because you can d/l at those speeds, does that mean you shouldn't share at all just to compensate for your limited upstream? And I understand your point about ppl using p2p at work, but again, should they even be doing this (queuing via AG for home pc might be an exception)? And if ppl are behind firewalls & can't get around it, isn't there a reason for this & should they just leech as a result? To me, these just sound like excuses/situations which are exploited by leechers! I wish I had some of these problems?! Surely there's only so much you can d/l, and from what I understand many broadband services allow you to be online perpetually? Also, I don't believe that the bandwidth controls in current p2p apps are necessarily good. This is another tool exploited by leechers. Right now they are the best solution but, as I stated above, it should be determined transparently by the program. How to do this is beyond me! Although I have no experience in broadband, it seems to me that ISP's don't regulate traffic, even if there are 'caps' or limits in effect. As far as they're concerned : excesses mean bigger bills for their customers/more revenue, so why regulate? The only workaround I can see is that somehow the OS keeps track of a connection, its limitations & its optimal config. If ISP's have anything to say in the matter, it probably won't happen. The problem & advantage with p2p is its anonymity, freedom & cross-platform nature. As soon as big business gets involved (however indirectly) there are obstacles.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken in any of these views (remember I have no practical experience with broadband.)