search results test

[assorted]

I tried my own little search results test.

I picked 10 obscure bands/tracks in 11 different genres and did searches within the same time period on 5 most popular methods.

http://www.ipbbooks.com/progtest.html

skip down the intro text to the table of results. that intro text is just because i'm framing it as an article for a friends site (and I'm gonna rewrite it).

Gnucleus/Gnutella came up with the most hits consistently for tracks. All the clients pretty much performed evenly, but no client stood out (WinMX, in fact, returned the least results most consistently).

I figure the reason people like returns for WinMX so much is because they are using the WinMX servers PLUS a good list of OpenNap servers. There's one problem with that opinion... WinMX no longer comes with a list of OpenNap servers. So for a newbie that stat is moot.

If I added the Audiognome results to the WinMX results... I can see why people would be really impressed by WinMX. But I personally don't have the AG server list in my WinMX, as I'm sure most don't.

Once you stip the OpenNap results and rely on only the WinMX server results, it's one of the weaker programs.

Going to have to disagree. Sorry! Gnutella may give more results but it also has several trade offs. Difficult to learn for the newbee. Insane bandwidth usage for nothing limits it solely to broadband. Its out but of use when all else fails.
Audiognome well here is another problem to get good results you have to really search for other Ag users to get alot of the unpublished servers. "Ag auto updates the servers from other Ag users" I find good results for almost everything I look for no matter what it is. But I also have about 150 unpublished servers outside Napigators list as well as the PNN connections.
Now there is winmx. Depending on what I look for I often get more results from it than I do opennap but I also have a few of my own tricks that I found work well to improve searches. Nice thing here is one connection no hassle ready to go. Unlike Ag and Gnutella. I have also noticed that file quality is often better on the WPNP than opennap "newer codecs encoded with Lame or Fhg producer pro" = simply better files!
Moreover I believe it is not the program but more so that people are now split up and not all in one place. That is why many use multiple programs for downloading. Sometimes you have to jump networks to get what you want. Newbees tend to flock to the easy to use networks Audiogalaxy / Morpheus+Kazaa which also provide good content but interfaces suck compared to Ag and WinmX.
My favorites are Audiognome Winmx and when all else fails Kazaa. But that is me and what I look for while the next user may have another choice of programs. It all comes down too preference and what you look for. Nice thing is now we have plenty to choose from with more programs and networks showing up every week!!

[assorted]

Originally posted by Yeah-I-Did-It
Going to have to disagree. Sorry!

No problem since I don't actually have an opinion yet. Having downloaded all the mp3s I need, I just tried out a lot of these for the first time out of curiousity.

Originally posted by Yeah-I-Did-It

Gnutella may give more results but it also has several trade offs. Difficult to learn for the newbee. Insane bandwidth usage for nothing limits it solely to broadband. Its out but of use when all else fails.

I absolutely agree. That "test" I did was for results only. I think I'm going to add on to that article for the next test mentioning whether I was actually able to COMPLETE a download (or, how long it took me to begin downloading and completing a file).

Also, I mentioned that for dialups Gnucleus/Gnutella was essentially not an option.

Originally posted by Yeah-I-Did-It
Audiognome well here is another problem to get good results you have to really search for other Ag users to get alot of the unpublished servers.

That test was done without the aid of any unpublished servers. I am hardly in good graces with AG people. Those were the servers I had when I downloaded it "out of the box". The only catch is I had a server list from about 6-7 months ago from an older version of AG. But I doubt many of those work anymore and assumed they were replaced by AG.

Originally posted by Yeah-I-Did-It
Now there is winmx. Depending on what I look for I often get more results from it than I do opennap but I also have a few of my own tricks that I found work well to improve searches. Nice thing here is one connection no hassle ready to go. Unlike Ag and Gnutella. I have also noticed that file quality is often better on the WPNP than opennap "newer codecs encoded with Lame or Fhg producer pro" = simply better files!

Here was the point of my test. I keep hearing that WinMX gives better search results than Morpheus/Kazaa. From my even scarce use of Morpheus and WinMX recently, I just knew that wasn't true. So I did that test to try to "prove" it as well as one user could.

I believe OpenNap gives better results then WinMX. Initially, I thought AG/OpenNap sucked ass for results. Then, I spent a little more time connecting to servers. It ended up I was connected to only half of the potential servers I could have been connected to. I just needed to take a little more time connecting to as many servers as possible. Once I did, my results doubled, and I used those figures for the test.

I agree, that is a pain in the ass. For ease of use, AG and Gnucleus/Gnutella aren't even in the running. But most of us hardcore folks just care about results. And, if your shopping for ease of use, why not use Morpheus instead of WinMX (which was giving me equal if not consistently better results?)

I haven't dealt with bitrate quality yet. I will once I figure out a fair way too evaluate it. Though I'm dubious of any idea that quality is "better" on one server then another. (Though I'm willing to be proven wrong!). IRC and newsgroups so far are the only places I've seen that consistently show 100% caring by it's members and servers for the quality and encoding of their files.

Originally posted by Yeah-I-Did-It
My favorites are Audiognome Winmx and when all else fails Kazaa. But that is me and what I look for while the next user may have another choice of programs. It all comes down too preference and what you look for. Nice thing is now we have plenty to choose from with more programs and networks showing up every week!!

Completely true. I don't think the post-Napster world is bad at all; in fact; nothing really seems to have changed except that I have to own 3 programs!

[TankGirl]

Originally posted by assorted
I don't think the post-Napster world is bad at all; in fact; nothing really seems to have changed except that I have to own 3 programs!

Ditto. I find the post-Napster word technologically very exciting and interesting. The serverless p2p is clearly breaking through on wide scale and each protocol/client/community family is a different approach to and experiment with the ideas of connectivity and sharing. To me p2p is an on-going technical and social adventure that goes way beyond my massive mp3 collection (which I admittedly greatly enjoy! ). I'm positive that the most interesting social aspects of p2p are yet to unfold...

- tg

gnucleus' search results are consistently stratospheric, regardless of their ultimate destination, but i was a bit surprised by your winmx - morpheus comparo.

i've been testing - and posting - run offs between the two for months and morpheus almost always gets TROUNCED by winmx. i'm not using any open nap servers here. to keep it fair, it's wpnp vs morpheus' p2p.



for example, tonight (right now) audio only, Janet Jackson:

Morpheus 57

WinMx 4054!


btw, with the opennaps added it was another 3500 files for winmx.

my conclusion thus far is that the supernode system comes at price of tremendously reduced returns but that also (and i find this interesting) your returns themselves may depend on your system, ie cpu/bandwidth. when i posted some U2 results on zeropad i heard from a few different people who told me about their wildly divergent results (but Consistently divergent), while others more closely resembled mine.

the upside to morpheus, and its' one saving grace in a house of bad manners, is its' delivery. we may talk about community, connectivity and global interrelationships but if that app doesn't d/l our tune we'll just keep dialing 'till we find one that does. and at the end of the day, at the end of This Day, that app is morpheus.

- js.

Originally posted by assorted


I agree, that is a pain in the ass. For ease of use, AG and Gnucleus/Gnutella aren't even in the running. But most of us hardcore folks just care about results. And, if your shopping for ease of use, why not use Morpheus instead of WinMX (which was giving me equal if not consistently better results?)

Morpheus instead of WinmX? This is why I don't use Morpheus Kazaa over WinmX. Interface layout sucks its hard to read/resize/and sort columns. I'm not sold on the segmented download idea yet. I get faster downloads with WinmX. Lack of options WinmX kicks ass in this area. (keep in mind I use Kazaa Morpheus caused serious problems for me when initially released and I'm waiting for several more versions before I try it again) Search options are too vague Kazaa only reports up to 128 bitrate unless you edit your registry. >>>>>1) Run regedit.(Using start menu> run > 'regedit')

2) Press ctrl+F to search, and search for 'limitbitrate ' (takes a few seconds) doubleclick limitbitrate and change the value to a 0 (zero). This enables searching of files over a 128 bitrate .

After applying these changes, you'll now notice that you can download mp3's off KaZaA at any bitrate. Happy downloading!
<<<<<<

Morpheus I understand allows all bitrates now?

Does Morpheus also allow you to use an external player now "winamp"??


I have no problems getting results with WinmX "could just be my favorite genre?" And as I mentioned before I seem to find better quality files on the WPNP than anywhere else I have tried. I check for quality and codecs with this http://www.guerillasoft.com/Encspot/ its new and fairly buggy but getting better and updates are only weeks apart. Kazaa Morpheus users seem to be in the on the fly musicmatch jukebox encoding mode!
I will give the Kazaa network a slight edge on software results over WinmX but both are close. I also trust Musiccity less than WinmX "personal thing" I would imagine that if Morpheus continues to grow as it has I will venture its way soon?
I have also noticed a difference in times when I get best results with WinmX. Typically evening hours to early morning are the best (U.S central time) But for now WinmX has what I want when I need it and it produces more matching files for resume purposes than opennap. If you don't get good search results with the WPNP try to play with the settings a little. On the connect screen hover over WPNP and select configure and play with the search options a little. If you are on port 0 you will also get less results keep that in mind

Last time I tried, Morpheus was actually allowing searches of MP3s greater than 128K which is a damn good thing seeing as my collection of MP3s are almost all 192K MP3s, with a few 128K OGGs in there as well.

One of the main limiting factors with Morpheus/KaZaA, is the silly limit of 100 search results. Particulaly when hunting for say all music videos by one band, this 100 limit quickly becomes a big problem. It also means that for a lot of things, you get more hits with WinMX because the only limits on WinMX are individual limits on OpenNap servers, and no limit on WPNP. For OpenNap servers, quite a lot of the larger networks have 200-300 file limits and the smaller ones usually have about a 100 limit on files. Therefore, if you hunt for something dead popular such as "Nirvana, MP3, all bitrates", you can quickly have many thousands of hits thrown at you.

As I've said before, I mainly use AudioGalaxy for queueing MP3s and searching for rare MP3s as it has the widest range available. I sometimes use Morpheus for queueing MP3s, and I use WinMX all other times.

Dave!!

[assorted]

Originally posted by JackSpratts

for example, tonight (right now) audio only, Janet Jackson:

Morpheus 57

WinMx 4054!

Morpheus has more then 57 Janet Jackson files. You are set up right not to get a max of 50 search results. However, Morpheus will not allow more then 100 results without funking with your registry. Funking with the registry on 1.3 did not work for me.

Regardless, I avoided searching for broad searches like Janet Jackson/U2/Metallica and/or limited it to specific songs because I think that gives a better idea of the overall selection available on a given network.

[assorted]

Originally posted by Trippynet
One of the main limiting factors with Morpheus/KaZaA, is the silly limit of 100 search results. Particulaly when hunting for say all music videos by one band, this 100 limit quickly becomes a big problem.

I agree completely. I have the same problem with Morpheus with games and apps. I mean, sometimes you just wanna browse.

On the plus side, Morpheus is like a Warez openhouse right now. For whatever reason (maybe a just recent inclusion of an upload limit?) I'm grabbing a lot of games and apps off Morpheus right now without any que wait or disconnects. I imagine this will change soon; and finding them/browsing admittedly is a pain in the ass with the 100 limit.

we've been doing these tests since may and the results are always surprising. take a look at the u2 thread on zeropaid for example.

(just did janet and i pulled in a whopping 73 on morpheus.)

what's been so surprising is the number of times that 100 figure isn't reached. your comment that "morpheus has more then 57 janet jackson files" is partially my point actually.

i know It has 'em, but It won't give 'em to me! and if It won't cough 'em up, then from a particular users' point of view, It might as well NOT have 'em...

whatever the cause, supernode conservatism or something else, people will drift off the network if they don't get decent results - no matter what the "users online" guesstimate says. especially when they see other apps beating morph 100 to one.

- js.

Good point Jack.

Morpheus 1.3s biggest and most annoying bug I have found, is that if it crashes, or you reset your comp without closing it, it deletes ALL part done transfers. If has done this FOUR times now on me. The only way round it if it crashes, is to reboot, go to your download folder, select all "kazaadownload********.dat" files, copy them to a different location, start Morpheus, let it sort itself out, close Morpheus, copy the files back again, restart Morpheus. this way, the files will be preserverd, but it really is a total pain and it is the kind of bug which should have been spotted well before the version was released.

Dave!!

First time I read about the bug with the lost download files was on the kazaa support board.
Months later morpheus was "created".
Rather lame in my opinion.

WizzOzz

[mike4947]

Just some random disjointed thoughts on the subjects.

100 hit search limit, MC stated it was to control the searching to stay under the radar of ISP's. In other words P2P searchs generate a radiating pattern that can generate millions of packets for a single search. ISP's are starting to "ban" file sharing programs that generate high amounts of traffic.

Being a "sharing" fanatic, I use WinMx because I can control who gets my files, no share, no get.

Less than 100 hits on Morpheus for popular artists..... the same limiting used to control traffic futher limits the number of hits.

looks like they went backwords instead of fowards with the 1.3beta. Before 1.3 I had only Morpheus in my registry, now there's more Kazaa than morpheus, to whoever tried the registry fix did you search for the Kazaa line?

interesting. i've got two. the first is like the "folder name" for a dozen morpheus items. the second is a header for something called connections.
my guess is the licensor fasttrack wants it that way and that beyond the name/shared protocols it has nothing do with the commercial App called kazaa.

i'm guessin', but i'm really hopin'. cause that kazaa thing is odd.

- js.

[mike4947]

They could have be leftovers from my fateful encounter with the infamous prerelease beta that had me down for 2 days. I never thought to look for Kazaa when I cleaned house. I found out about them on the Morph forum. Needless to say I'll wait for 2.0 to be out a week or so before trying it.

Current User/Software/Morpheus/Advanced
Then you change 32 to 64 in Max Search Results

I get up to 167 results for Janet Jackson

Originally posted by napho
Current User/Software/Morpheus/Advanced
Then you change 32 to 64 in Max Search Results

I get up to 167 results for Janet Jackson

i'm already there (64) but i still hardly hit 1oo, let alone more.

Originally posted by JackSpratts


i'm already there (64) but i still hardly hit 1oo, let alone more.

There were an unusually large number of + multiple files.
Wide variations in WinMX too. One time I got 1400 results for D12(great rap CD), another time 500.Go figure.