Questions For MC

I put this on MC two days ago but they forgot to run it. I put it up a second time today as I really want to hear from them about this but I thought I'd place it here in case they forget again. It will widen the dialog even if they actually do remember to run it...

"I posted this on the tenth but it never made it on the board so I'll do it again:

It's been posted on this board several times and going back to early April that Morpheus is not a pure P2P in that it requires the use of supported (and therefore vulnerable) servers to initialize network contact and log-ons for the users.
Is this true? Is there anything under Morpheus' control that could be used by the courts against this network?

You seem to be implying that the entire system is completely beyond your control now. That this net is "on its own". That everyone and everything is now off limits even to the people that run (don't run?) this network. I find that a bit of a stretch but again, is this true?
Because if there is anything that MusicCity can do to exercise any control at all over this client then THAT is what the courts will use against it should the RIAA succeed.
Of course, there are others methods as well, but the results of a civil suit directed at MusicCity and won by the RIAA would begin with requiring action by MC against Morpheus first.
Only after MC convinces the court that they are powerless to stop file sharing (and the experts agree) will the court order other means explored.

I mention this only because nothing short of action by congress will stop the RIAA and now AMPAS from going after every file sharing system in existence. They are not going to stop suing simply because MC doesn't hold files in a central server. They're not going to stop until the government forces them to stop or until every little p2p scheme is shut down or crippled. Why should they? They perceive P2P a direct threat to their way of life and livelihood.

So MC, are ya ready? That's all we want to know."

[mike4947]

Jack, remember Music City Discussion is a fully moderated forum, They have to post it and if they don't like what you say it doesn't get posted.
From what I've been reading it looks like Music Cities defense will be it's not for just music files and that it's for business file transfer use and the individual use is incidental (yah right, like napster saying they didn't write it for music piracy)

[TankGirl]

You make a good point, Jack.

My similar inquiries to MC have so far been left unanswered as well. This makes me assume that their infrastructure (solid as it is) still relies on the existence of their entry point servers even if they like to give a different impression. So far I have seen no info about how reconnecting to the network would work without their servers. Nor is there any experience on how solid and vital the network would remain if MC's server farm would go down. If I would have to guess, I would guess that the network is yet far from being 'on its own'.

- tg

[Tom9504]

In their FAQ, they say:

Q: Is MusicCity a distributed network?
A: Yes! In fact, MusicCity is a whole new type of distributed network. We have developed technology that effectively solves the inherent problems in "first-generation" distributed networks, such as Gnutella. MusicCity is what can be called a distributed self-organizing network.

Q: Why is it better than other distributed networks such as Gnutella?
A: With Gnutella and similar networks, all connected computers acts as search servers on the networks. When a search query is initiated, it is sent to 2 to 4 other computers, which in turn passes the query to more computers, and so on. Effectively, each search query traverses the entire network. This creates a huge amount of traffic. Clients on slower connections (such as modem dial-ups) cannot keep up with this amount of traffic, which slows down the entire search process.

On MusicCity, not all clients act as servers. Instead, clients on powerful connection and with faster computers are selected to become what we call "SuperNodes". SuperNodes can be seen as local search hubs. "Normal" clients connect to their "neighborhood" SuperNode to upload information about the files they share and perform searches. The selection of SuperNodes is automatic - there is no manual intervention. This is why we call it a distributed self-organizing network.

Q: What are the main advantages of the MusicCity approach?
A: Put simply, this is the key advantages of MusicCity compared to others:
Totally distributed self-organizing network
The network is multi-layered, so that more powerful computers get to be search hubs ("Supernodes"). Network management is 100% automatic. Search times are very low, typically 1-3 seconds. Scalability limits are about 5000% greater than LimeWire, BearShare, or Gnutella in general.

It's really not very specific...

I think Morpheus connects to MusicCity servers to establish a list of users who are acting as search SuperNodes - "Normal" clients connect to their "neighborhood" SuperNode to upload information about the files they share and perform searches - so could the "neighborhood" SuperNode be owned by MC? ... I'm not sure about that one, but I figure that's could be why all the MC servers disappeared from the OpenNap server lists after Morpheus showed up.

The RIAA certainly has the power to stop MC like they stopped Napster, I'm sure of that - especially if the MPAA decides to get involved as well. Even if the network is 'self-organizing' and can't be shut down, they could order that MusicCity stop distributing the Morpheus program itself. I doubt we's see the same response as with Napster of people trying to 'keep Morpheus alive'... it just hasn't been around long enough for anyone to get attached to it, and it's totally lacking in any social side, as the Nazi-moderated forums appear to have just proven.

MusicCity plans to set up a pay service anyway so it doesn't really matter to me at all. Am extremely buggy program like Morpheus with no 'happy memories' and no social side to speak of will almost certainly die when you start having to pay for the 'privilege' of using it. The only real advantage of Morpheus was its userbase anyway... you gotta admit, the UI is pretty bad (although not WinMX bad, just a bit bad).

MC is just another Napster-style sellout now. Bring on the true (free) P2P of the future, please.

[TankGirl]

Tom9504:
In their FAQ, they say:
I think Morpheus connects to MusicCity servers to establish a list of users who are acting as search nodes... I'm unsure of that one, but I figure that's probably why all the MC servers disappeared from the OpenNap server lists after Morpheus showed up.

Yep, Music City uses its server farm as a set of 'hardwired' supernodes in the Morpheus network. That also no doubt contributes a lot to the solid and fast infrastructure of the network.

Tom9504:
I doubt we's see the same response as with Napster of people trying to 'keep Morpheus alive'... it just hasn't been around long enough for anyone to get attached to it, and it's totally lacking in any social side, as the Nazi-moderated forums appear to have just proven.

I don't want to be too critical about them going temporarily for forum moderation as they were intially under very heavy attack from some angry OpenNap afficiandos. But they should have given up moderation already now - it is stupid of them to keep the forums in such a crippled state when they could really do with some user feedback.

Tom9504:
MusicCity plans to set up a pay service anyway so it doesn't really matter to me at all. Am extremely buggy program like Morpheus with no 'happy memories' and no social side to speak of will almost certainly die when you start having to pay for the 'privilege' of using it. The only real advantage of Morpheus was its userbase anyway... you gotta admit, the UI is pretty bad (although not WinMX bad, just a bit bad).

I don't actually believe that they are going for a fee service - they seem to understand that it would not work. My guess is that they try to do their money through advertising.

You are dead right about 'no happy memories' with Morpheus - there is simply no social life on Morpheus to draw happy memories from. As it is, it's all about leeching 'stuff'. I take that more as a reflection of the mindset of the Kazaa developers than the MC people. What MC has in mind in social terms should become more clear when they roll out their own client. Not that I would be holding my breath though...

Tom9504:
MC is just another Napster-style sellout now.

MC may not have sold out yet but they most likely will at some stage.

Tom9504:
Bring on the true (free) P2P of the future, please.

Ditto on that!

- tg

[mike4947]

"I don't actually believe that they are going for a fee service - they seem to understand that it would not work. My guess is that they try to do their money through advertising."

Well if they are planing to use advertising, they better revise their business plan. Notice Homestead going to a "premium service". There isn't the revenue in hits that there was a year ago. Seems the net has finally woke up and smelled the coffee, or should I say the lack of coffee.

yeah well all of this stuff just pisses me off. we've been given a once in a lifetime opportunity to transform the way we share with everyone everywhere and we f*ck around instead playing cat and mouse with some of the most unscrupulous and greedy pricks outside of the mob.
why can't somebody just write a secure program that does what p2p is supposed to do and then SELL IT?

i'd buy the bastard in a heartbeat (and start changing the world one little file at a time).

[TankGirl]

Originally posted by mike4947
Well if they are planing to use advertising, they better revise their business plan. Notice Homestead going to a "premium service". There isn't the revenue in hits that there was a year ago. Seems the net has finally woke up and smelled the coffee, or should I say the lack of coffee.

You are of course right and I am not too optimistic about the possibilities of advertising either. I myself ignore ads almost without exception; I guess they still work on some people though. If fees and advertising are their options, I would still bet them having better chances on advertising. Fees just don't work on global, open-for-all p2p as long as there are decent free alternatives available.

- tg