The 911 Coincidence Guide, A Cogent Response to Those Nutty 911 Conspiracy Theories

[floydian slip]

That Osama bin Laden is known to have been an asset of US foreign policy in no way implies he still is.

That al Qaeda was active in the Balkan conflict, fighting on the same side as the US as recently as 1999, while the US protected its cells, is merely one of history's little aberrations.

That Dave Frasca of the FBI’s Radical Fundamentalist Unit received a promotion after quashing multiple, urgent requests for investigations into al Qaeda assets training at flight schools in the summer of 2001 does appear on the surface odd, but undoubtedly there's a good reason for it, quite possibly classified.

That over the summer of 2001 Washington received many urgent, senior-level warnings from foreign intelligence agencies and governments - including those of Germany, France, Great Britain, Russia, Egypt, Israel, Morocco, Afghanistan and others - of impending terror attacks using hijacked aircraft and did nothing, demonstrates the pressing need for a new Intelligence Czar.

That George Bush had plans to invade Afghanistan on his desk before 9/11 demonstrates only the value of being prepared.

The suggestion that securing an oil pipeline across Afghanistan figured into the White House’s calculations is as ludicrous as the assertion that oil played a part in determining war in Iraq.

That Afghanistan is once again the world’s principal heroin producer is an unfortunate reality, but to claim that the CIA is still actively involved in the narcotics trade is to presume bad faith on the part of the agency.

That FEMA arrived in New York on Sept 10 to prepare for a scheduled biowarfare drill, and had a triage centre ready to go that was larger and better equipped than the one that was lost in the collapse of WTC 7, was a lucky twist of fate.

Reports of insider trading on 9/11 are false, because the SEC investigated and found only respectable investors, who will remain nameless, were involved, and no terrorists, so the windfall profit-taking was merely, as ever, coincidental.

That none of the flight data recorders were said to be recoverable even though they were located in the tail sections, and that until 9/11, no solid-state recorder in a catastrophic crash had been unrecoverable, shows how there's a first time for everything.

That multiple military wargames and simulations were underway the morning of 9/11 – one simulating the crash of a plane into a building; another, a live-fly simulation of multiple hijackings – and took many interceptors away from the eastern seaboard and confused field commanders as to which was a real hijacked aircraft and which was a hoax, was a bizarre coincidence, but no less a coincidence.

That the FBI knew precisely which Florida flight schools to descend upon hours after the attacks should make every American feel safer knowing their federal agents are on the ball.

That the tape in which bin Laden claims responsibility for the attacks was released by the State Department after having been found providentially by US forces in Afghanistan, and depicts a fattened Osama with a broader face and a flatter nose, proves Osama, and Osama alone, masterminded 9/11.

Reports that bin Laden is currently receiving periodic dialysis treatment in a Pakistani medical hospital are simply too incredible to be true.

That the White House went on Cipro September 11 shows the foresightedness of America’s emergency response.

That the anthrax was mailed to perceived liberal media and the Democratic leadership demonstrates only the perversity of the terrorist psyche.

That the anthrax attacks appeared to silence opponents of the Patriot Act shows only that appearances can be deceiving.

That the Ames-strain anthrax was found to have originated at Fort Detrick, and was beyond the capability of all but a few labs to refine, underscores the importance of allowing the investigation to continue without the distraction of absurd conspiracy theories.

That the White House balked at any inquiry into the events of 9/11, then starved it of funds and stonewalled it, was unfortunate, but since the commission didn't find for conspiracy, it's all a non issue anyway.

That the 9/11 commission's executive director and "gatekeeper," Philip Zelikow, was so closely involved in the events under investigation that he testified before the the commission as part of the inquiry, shows only an apparent conflict of interest.

That commission chair Thomas Kean is, like George Bush, a Texas oil executive who had business dealings with reputed al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mafouz, suggests Texas is smaller than they say it is.

That co-chair Lee Hamilton has a history as a Bush family "fixer," including clearing Bush Sr of the claims arising from the 1980 "October Surprise", is of no concern, since only conspiracists believe there was such a thing as an October Surprise.

That FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds accuses the agency of intentionally fudging specific pre-9/11 warnings and harboring a foreign espionage ring in its translation department, and claims she witnessed evidence of the semi-official infrastructure of money-laundering and narcotics trade behind the attacks, is of no account, since John Ashcroft has gagged her with the rare invocation of "State Secrets Privilege," and retroactively classified her public testimony. For the sake of national security, let us speak no more of her.

It has been known that governments have permitted terrorist acts against their own people, and have even themselves been perpetrators in order to find strategic advantage, but this is The United States we're talking about!

I could go on and on and on, but I trust you get the point which is simply this:

1. there are no secrets,
2. an American government would never accept civilian casualties for geostrategic gain, and
3. conspiracies are for the weak-minded and gullible.

Jeff Wells

[Sinner]

Why we need conspiracy theories
Conspiracy theories make the world seem safer
By BBC News Online's Charlotte Parsons

The moon landing was faked, Princess Diana was murdered and JFK was the victim of an elaborate CIA assassination plot.

When major historic events shake our world, conspiracy theories are seldom far behind.

The US terror attacks are no exception. The dust had barely settled on New York before the cloaks and daggers came out.

Less than two weeks after the disaster, BBC News Online found itself inundated with e-mails seeking confirmation of the various theories now circling the globe.

Hundreds of them cite a web page that lambasted the CNN for stirring up anti-Arab sentiment by running "fake footage" of Palestinians cheering over the attacks on the US.

If you think it's a rogue person or an unsophisticated group you start worrying about your daily life

Psychology Professor Cary Cooper
The news network is accused of digging out 10-year-old images of celebrations that followed the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and passing them off as Palestinian displays of anti-Americanism.

The allegations can be traced back to a message posted on Chicago Indymedia's website.

"Think for a moment about the impact of such images," the text urges visitors. "This kind of broadcast has a very high possibility of causing waves of anger and rage against the Palestinians."

Another popular theory holds that the Israelis working in the World Trade Center left the building shortly before the attacks. In a similar vein, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is said to have cancelled a visit that would have placed him in New York on 11 September.

The implication: The terror attacks were a trick designed to turn world opinion against Israel's Muslim enemies.

The theories are unsourced, unfounded and untrue. But they are spreading fast.

Human nature

This begs the question: Where do conspiracy theories come from? What is it in human nature that drives us to create alternative worlds peopled by shadowy figures?

Are we paranoid, delusional or just plain bored?

According to Psychology Professor Cary Cooper we are trying to stave off fear of random violence and unpredictable death.

There are 36,000 Diana conspiracy web sites

"They do that because they can't come to terms with the fact that it could be just a few people," said Professor Cooper, who lectures at the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology.

"If you think it's a rogue person or an unsophisticated group you start worrying about your daily life. If this can happen, what sense of security can you have?"

We create alternate realities because we reject the world where a single madman can bring down a president, a reckless driver can snuff out a princess... and a few men with knives can terrorise a country.

The internet helps the theories grow and spread. An estimated 36,000 Princess Diana conspiracy web sites were created after her death.

Ripple effect

Professor Cooper predicts that, in the weeks ahead, US terror attack theories will expand and become attributed to an ever larger group of culprits.

"We simply can't believe a small number of people could be behind it," he says, adding that a similar ripple effect followed the John F Kennedy shooting.

Conspiracy theories are not unique to Western culture. Experts say they have operated in many societies throughout history.

On a certain psychological level, we appear to need them.

Giving misery and injustice an identity makes life more bearable, according to Jeffrey Bale, who writes for an online magazine that examines the phenomenon.

"Conspiracy theories account for current crises and upheavals and explain why bad things are happening to good people or vice versa," he said.

[albed]

I think this guy is being overanalytical. When I was in high school there were always a few spiteful losers who tried spreading malicious gossip about successful, popular students. A good looking girl would be called a slut and they'd say she got caught fucking a dog or jacking a horse. A jock would be called a faggot with similar stories.

For some ridiculous reason it's illegal to kill these lowlife scumbags so they grow up to carry on their hobby over the internet with bigger targets and presumably greater thrills for themselves.

[floydian slip]

Originally Posted by albed

But you don't see me whining about it in every fucking post.

Easy squawkie... LOL You are contradicting yourself again. Your credibility is in the bottom of your parrot cage.

Arrrrrrrg!

[malvachat]

Oh for f..ks sake,you went and woke him up again.
Now we'll get no peace at all.

Now where is that tongue in cheek smiley.

[floydian slip]

William Rodriguez, is a native of Puerto Rico, a citizen of the United States, and a resident of the State of New Jersey. On September 11, 2001, and for approximately nineteen years prior thereto, Rodriguez was employed as a maintenance worker at the World Trade Center (WTC) in New York, New York.

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Rodriguez.htm

A motion to dismiss the Federal RICO lawsuit against President Bush and others, alleging complicity in 9/11, met heavy resistance last week by Plaintiff William Rodriguez. He urged the court to allow the case to proceed as defendants, including Bush, have lied repeatedly about any advance warnings of the WTC attacks.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles...8131/24652.htm

[malvachat]

Is Rodriguez a conspiracy nut?
Or is he a hero?
Answers on a postcard.
The building 7 thing gets me.
First they did it,then they didn't.
A blind donkey can see it was blown.
Any blind donkeys looking in?

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by malvachat

Is Rodriguez a conspiracy nut?
Or is he a hero?

Both….

Answers on a postcard.
The building 7 thing gets me.

“What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires — desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”— Bertrand Russell, “Roads to Freedom”

First they did it,then they didn't

Who is this They you speek of?

A blind donkey can see it was blown.
Any blind donkeys looking in?

Besides you and a few others in this forum you mean?...

[malvachat]

The US government say the building fell down.
I have seen video of news reports where officials talk of pulling the building.
Watch it come down what do you think?
Their are lots of unanswered questions that are not getting answered.
Why was Norad stood down that morning?
Where are the remains of the aircraft that hit the pentagon?
Why did a steel building fall like that?
When expert after expert says it's impossible to happen
in the time period,and with so little heat.
I would just like sensible explanations,it doesn't add up to me.
I told you all before I don't have an axe to grind.
I'm not some "conspiracy nut"
You can think so if you like.
But calling me names won't get rid of the questions.

Bertrand Russell is a very clever man and I understand what he's saying.
I have read a lot of his stuff.
But this is the thing,The quote can be used on both sides of the
discussion.
Do you really believe your government?Or mine for that matter.
With it's track record.

[Sinner]

The US government say the building fell down.
I have seen video of news reports where officials talk of pulling the building.
Watch it come down what do you think?
Their are lots of unanswered questions that are not getting answered.

Start here…..NIST is a non-regulatory federal agency within the U.S.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/r..._april0505.htm

Why was Norad stood down that morning?
Where are the remains of the aircraft that hit the pentagon?
Why did a steel building fall like that?
When expert after expert says it's impossible to happen
in the time period,and with so little heat.
I would just like sensible explanations,it doesn't add up to me.

Again… Follow the link above, interviews with 100’s of witnesses includeing over a hundred fire fighters and police officers who were there and over 10,000 pages of their investigation.

I told you all before I don't have an axe to grind.
I'm not some "conspiracy nut"
You can think so if you like.
But calling me names won't get rid of the questions.

I beg to differ and read your post again, I believe you call the people who don’t agree with you blind donkeys and sheep.

Bertrand Russell is a very clever man and I understand what he's saying.
I have read a lot of his stuff.
But this is the thing,The quote can be used on both sides of the
discussion.

Yes it can be used by both sides but I am not the one calling people blind donkeys.

Do you really believe your government?Or mine for that matter.
With it's track record.

Never said I did, but read the info from NIST and try to discredit the facts. Send it to them, let them know a janitor who saved some people the day 9/11 happened disagrees with them, He would be the smartest janitor in the world if he can disprove all the scientist and experts who worked on NIST’s investigation.

[malvachat]

Well it's a "federal agency within the U.S."
Why has it taken four years?


I'm on holiday for two weeks,so I won't get time to finish reading the
full report.I will do,and do some research on their ideas.
I'm a steel fabricator by trade so I know what it takes to melt steel,so I'll be interested to know how prove burning chairs and furnishings generate the heat needed.The aircraft fuel would be gone in minutes.
If it was so hot in there as it it would need to be.How come people were standing in the holes made by the aircraft.It just doesn't add up.
When I have weekend structures with heat for fabrication purposes,
steel does not react that way.
The heat needed to harm them main columns would have had to be
huge and it would have taken hours for them to bend or break.
But I'll read the report and see if they can prove different or how.

[malvachat]

I have just spent the last two hours looking at some of this report.
Looking at the building seven and it's collapse.
Lots of pretty pictures very little fact.
All that is said is that if this post here goes then this post here goes and it all falls down.
Nowhere does it say how such temps were reached.
It talks about debris damage as if it's fact.buildings much closer did not have as much as would needed to collapse.
Where is the proof of this damage?
What photo's they do show are not clear at all to make such sweeping assumtions.
How did the fires start?
Other buildings didn't have fires.
Sorry mate this report is a no go so far but I'll carry on reading.
This was a easy one.have a look yourself it really is a load of bolocks.
If you know anything at all about steel you would understand.
It just does not move and bend like they say.The heat needed is
just not there with them small fires.
Never seen "The Towering Inferno"
That's more realistic than this shit.

[Sinner]

NIST will release 10,000 pages on the investigation in June. I think that should keep conspiracy nuts busy for a long time. Enjoy yourselves. I am done with it.

[malvachat]

Originally Posted by Sinner

NIST will release 10,000 pages on the investigation in June. I think that should keep conspiracy nuts busy for a long time. Enjoy yourselves. I am done with it.

That's the whole point.
It can be 10,000,000 pages still won't proof it.
If this one is anything to go by.
Have a look yourself some of it is comical.
This picture proofs this,this means that.
It's a f..king joke.
A kids tv program explains things better.
I'll look a bit closer when I get back off holiday.
Have a nice day.

[malvachat]

Right,Sinner.
Please point me in the right direction.
I have had a good look through and nowhere can I find the proof that
you seem to think exists within it.
Have you looked through this yourself?
Lots of it is unprovable and based on assumtions that can not be checked.
They show diagrams with damage done to the towers.
No evidence that proofs this damage was ever done.
All it offers is another "Theory" as to how the three buildings
came to fall the way they did.
If that's what your offering fine.
I can except that as another point of view.
The problem I have with Govt reports is they should be based on
some sort of fact,not guesswork.
I'm sure if there hadn't been such a rush to clear up so fast,
some of the ruins could have given us more facts to work with.
Someone made a poor decision there?
Or was there something to hide.
Oh bollocks there I go again,
you've already told me there's nothing to hide.

[Sinner]

Right,Sinner.
Please point me in the right direction.

Why does it really matter what I think? Your mind is made up. Your philosophy is, Everything the USA government says are lies and what any nut with a keyboard is truth aslong as it disagrees with the USA Government. Spin it all you want, That is the TRUTH.

I have had a good look through and nowhere can I find the proof that
you seem to think exists within it.
Have you looked through this yourself?

Yes I have, but I am not a engineer or a scientist, so I can only give you may opinions and you already know what they are.

Lots of it is unprovable and based on assumtions that can not be checked.
They show diagrams with damage done to the towers.
No evidence that proofs this damage was ever done.
All it offers is another "Theory" as to how the three buildings
came to fall the way they did.
If that's what your offering fine.

Well what are you looking for? Of course it is assumptions, and is a Theory backed by science. Science is guess work. Seems to me you are looking for someone who was in the building and saw the beams bend and break first hand, well I am sorry to inform, there isn’t any, they all died.

I can except that as another point of view.
The problem I have with Govt reports is they should be based on
some sort of fact,not guesswork.
I'm sure if there hadn't been such a rush to clear up so fast,
some of the ruins could have given us more facts to work with.
Someone made a poor decision there?
Or was there something to hide.
Oh bollocks there I go again,
you've already told me there's nothing to hide.

It is some sort of fact, just not the facts you are willing to except. They didn’t rush a 4 year investigation is not rushing. You are right, there is nothing to hide.

[malvachat]

Good posting mate.
At least no name calling.
I'm not sure what to believe to be honest.
I am a time-served steel fabricator,
with 30 yrs of working with of steel and some of the theorys shown
in that report stretch things a lot.
Yes,it can be proofed that under certain conditions,
it's possible that the buildings went down as the report says.
But the variables are huge.
Then to have 7 go the same way and have the"Pull it" phrase used,
in whatever capacity just adds doubt to the story.
Along with lots of other irritating things that keep on poping up.
The money thing,"The passport" Bush saying he saw the first plane.
Norad standing down.The doubts about the Pentagon attack.
There are so many unanswered questions.

For the record.
I'm not sure the USA government was behind the attacks,but Confident
it knows I lot more than what they're admitting to.
I don't dislike America.
I do distrust their government.
I think we all have good reason too as well.

Oh here's a thing, I was watching the video of both planes crashing the other day.A fraction of a second before both contacts there's a flash of some sort.Only one angle on the first but four on the second.I can't think what it could possibly be.Have you any ideas? before we speculate a bit more.Reflection is ruled out because it shows on every angle.
You look yourself.What do you think it is?

My thoughts are like this,if "Jacko"gets off on the grounds of reasonable doubt,and he admitted he likes sleeping with little boys in his bed.
Then there has to be enough reasonable doubt to open all the files,
and find out exactly what the government knows or doesn't know.

[Sinner]

Oh here's a thing, I was watching the video of both planes crashing the other day.A fraction of a second before both contacts there's a flash of some sort.Only one angle on the first but four on the second.I can't think what it could possibly be.Have you any ideas? before we speculate a bit more.Reflection is ruled out because it shows on every angle.
You look yourself.What do you think it is?

I call Bullshit, for one there is only one video of the first plane hitting the WTC, which means there is only one angle. How do I know whoever or where ever this video came from has not been tempered with? I have heard a lot a garbage, do a google search “UFO WTC”, read it, you may start to believe beings from Mars are involved. A fraction of a second you say there is a flash before contact? The video most likely is grainy and the flash is after contact. But hey who knows, could be aliens eh..??

My thoughts are like this,if "Jacko"gets off on the grounds of reasonable doubt,and he admitted he likes sleeping with little boys in his bed.
Then there has to be enough reasonable doubt to open all the files,
and find out exactly what the government knows or doesn't know.

Can’t compare California with the rest of America. Californians do not convict celebrities, OJ Simpson, Robert Blake, Jacko, etc…. Martha Stewart would have never went to jail if her trail was in California.

[malvachat]

Sorry sinner,have a look on any copy you like.
The flash is there.
You have only to look at any of the shots.
Is there really only one shot of the first plane.
How did Bush see it then?

[Sinner]

Speaking of Conspiracy's, what is the latest news with Saybolt? Good ole Dutch company which took bribes and made millions from Saddam's oil. No wonder the Dutch are against this war. They were Friends of Saddam.