Mindless greed is starting to wound P2P - Page 2 - P2P-Zone

goldie · 05-06-02, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB
lol aye i can understand it mite seem like vapourware atm so here's a bit of an AYB update...

As soon as the company is finalised I'll be back here with the name and some hard info on exactly what features the client will have.

JackSpratts · 05-06-02, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB

As soon as the company is finalised I'll be back here with the name and some hard info on exactly what features the client will have.

and you'll have a nearly unlimited supply of alpha/beta testers and assistants at your disposal ayb i'm sure!

no small thing that…it appears i've even picked up an assistant myself.

- js.

AYB · 05-06-02, 11:14 AM

User such as your fine selves will very much be a part of the development process, at all stages. Our catch phrase is "Putting the peer back into p2p"

I am slightly concerned about letting too early a build out tho, I don't want ppl to consider us just another gnutella client based on our first release. First impressions are important

JohnDoe345 · 05-06-02, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by napho

but I've been amazed at how few sources there were from those quicklinks.

That's exactly the problem. It just seemed like a lot of work with very little results. FastTrack is nice when there are available sources, but I've learned first hand about the up hill battle in trying to spread files with the high leech ratio. I've notice that in some other p2p programs you only need to upload to a few users in order for something to be wide spread but you have to upload to a lot more users on FastTrack in order to do the same.

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB

User such as your fine selves will very much be a part of the development process, at all stages. Our catch phrase is "Putting the peer back into p2p".

Yes, AYB tell us when you are ready to release this program. I'm very much looking forward to trying it out

Willow · 05-06-02, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethen
Yeah, I was just making a point to willow. Kinda along the same line as your spiderman thing.

I see lesbians are able to read things at face value though.

If you want to know about female castration, you have to google the medical journals.

Put it this way.

The words "if you do that again, I'll castrate you" have far more effect on a bloke than a lass.

But who has use for novelty pink paperweights ?

Mowzer · 05-06-02, 03:56 PM

I think were just a little bit off topic there willow.

Sounds good AYB. Will it be open source? At least by setting up a company, you will protect users from lawsuits, and be able to take the shelling yourself.

Unless the RIAA abandons that route, and actually does decided to go after users.

I am sure your client will make a fine first impression, as it seems to be spawned by a true p2p lover.

I havent detected greed in any of your posts.

Congrats.

(P.S dont hire harby as your PR guy.)

twinspan · 05-06-02, 05:25 PM

re few sources for quick links, a couple of points that might redeem FT/Sig2Dat somewhat:

1. sources for Quick links: LAN ips keep getting in there, wasting time and making the client think that once it's checked out all those LAN addresses, it's done a useful search of the network. Indy's working hard on this issue to cut out all the LAN ips, hopefully future sig2dat links will be more effective.

WARNING: HALF-ASSED LAMER SPECULATION BELOW (and above, maybe

)
2. File 'splits': seems that even if no-one really does anything to a file, it can still end up receiving tiny changes that make no difference to us watching or listening the final result, but does make a difference to the FT network, which thus gives its own separate hash sig.
So you get file 'splits' with the same movie/whatever having more than one hash; and the different 'versions' flux in popularity.

e.g. tried d/ling a movie off FT overnight from a quick link on JD's site, came back next day: not a single KB d/l'ed! ('More Sources Needed'). And I had been running FastTrack Accelerator too. So i shut down & restarted with MorpheusX; after a few hours still no luck. ('More Sources Needed')
So then I did what I would have done before quicklinks: i ran a search in grokster for what I wanted. Two versions with the exact same file size came up (and exactly the same as the size mentioned for the quick link): one with only one source, the other with plenty of sources. I clicked on the second, and it started d/l'ing straight away! With geuinely plenty of sources contributing to my download speed.

I suspect that quicklinks are often made for one branch in a file 'split' that happens to become a dead end for some reason, the other split became more popular on the network, which sees them as completely different files and won't 'reunite' them.

And quick links are no more intelligent than FT itself, so so they are just as much victim to file splits as the network.

multi · 05-06-02, 10:24 PM

THREADS EXEL AWARD

well were can i start (again)
AYB-i would like to help in any way too ,but i am only a dial up user ...dont know if it will be suited for me to try
ive done some beta testing but my main reports went into a forum
but the programmers never hardly showed .....
to naphos initial topic.....
i collect stuff for yrs since c64 amiga500 days i guess u would call me an obbsessed software collector..........
but i hope share all or any of it when i can(not the old stuff)
i have d/l 1 movie.
i get mp3's from numerous freinds and making my own music is more important to me i guess and theres enough peeps out there doing that lol ; )
but for the bad ones and the malicious fake file shareres
need there nuts taken off with those little rubber rings they put on sheep
circumcision
could be an option for the bad girls
but Willow i can understand the humour like what u say
i got no idea what movie leecher would be like while running a server on bband....the lamers that grab the first thing no info no care then they musnt care if they get the fakes .....kidding
they only do it once i bet
so if they are like the now famous <eRRoR FRoZ> they will get hacked by their modem lights and all will be well -hit alt cntrl del really fast TWICE and it will work....ffs

man i am piSSed oFF
i typed a great post really long and lost it....
i guess u know how that goes..(next time i save every thing to note padb4 i hit submit)it only does it when u do a long post?
ok im trying to recreate it in my mind but i fear this wont be as good

AYB · 06-06-02, 04:10 AM

Warning, possible greed coming up

Open source is a bit of a tricky issue. We definately support the notion of open source and are referring to quite a lot of open source code in our development but at the same time we are hoping to get some kind of financial reward out of this app, and we just aren't sure what effect, if any, making it open source would have on this.

Let me immediately clarify about making money. We will NOT have ANY spyware, crapware etc. The program will not have built in ads. The program will be completely freeware, there will be no "pro" version you have to pay $30 for. Every single way we have of making money will be completely opt in, and we're relying on the fact that producing a quality app will make ppl want to give us something back in return. Firstly we'll accept donations via PayPal. Secondly we'll participate in a number of affiliate programs, with ppl like amazon.com. When you want to buy a book (or dvd or whatever else amazon are now selling

) and at the same time give us a little something in return, you simply click on the link to amazon.com on our webpage. You get what you want with albeit a little bit of fuss, but without actually paying anything extra you've given us a reward. Thirdly we will have all kinds of quality merchandise, like tshirts and mugs

We're hoping those will take off, particularly with our name they should be popular with music fans. (All in good time). And finally on the website we will probably have a page of the site dedicated to some banner ad programs, which you can click on if you have a few seconds to spare and the inclination to do so. Once again, completely opt in and you're not actually giving us anything aside from a little bit of your time

And the ads will be monitored and we will NOT have any popups.

If anyone is completely galled by this, or even slightly disgusted

do let me know. We're trying very much to maintain a balance between not being greedy and seeking some (justified) reward for our coding time.

Having said all of this, if the legal side of things looks like there is any chance of us being shut down, the source code shall be released immediately.

multi inter user face: 56k users are very important to us. We imagine with all of our possible options enabled, the app will be VERY bandwith heavy. (Although there will be a HUGE number of customisation options to provide a range of performance. At the same time we don't want ppl to be completely baffled so there will be a "simple" mode which handles everything behind the scenes, with an "advanced" mode for all manner of tweaking) We will definately need dialup users in testing to help us gauge what kind of settings they can cope with. And we're aware that dialup is still a significant section of the internet community so we don't want to make our app "broadband only"

BuzzB2K · 06-06-02, 07:25 AM

A P2P coffe mug sounds like a good idea

Mowzer · 06-06-02, 10:41 AM

What is the adress to sign up for the beta program?

As for the ways you plan to make money, I think they are good, because there isnt too much else of a choice on how to earn cash with out being spyware heavy.

The best place to ask would be the great beast slash dot. Send it in as a reader question to be posted.

It seems how to generate revune and not kill off users is a holy grail.

Congrats on not messing up GUI with ads.

twinspan · 06-06-02, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB
Having said all of this, if the legal side of things looks like there is any chance of us being shut down, the source code shall be released immediately.

I promise not to sue; Scout's Honour!

AYB · 06-06-02, 11:00 AM

There's nothing approaching a beta program yet

And I can't give out the web address until the domain is an "official company asset" and I can't transfer it until the company is set up...

JackSpratts · 06-06-02, 11:19 AM

when you're ready...

we'll be here.

- js.

napho · 07-06-02, 01:12 AM

AYB, how about naming rights? Companies have paid up to $100 million to put their name on an arena or stadium; if you could get together with a company to use their name or them use your program's name it could mean cash upfront and a stream of income if your p2p does well. That would be painless for everyone.

BuzzB2K · 07-06-02, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB
There's nothing approaching a beta program yet

And I can't give out the web address until the domain is an "official company asset" and I can't transfer it until the company is set up...

So I should hold on to my old cup for now I guess

twinspan · 07-06-02, 07:47 AM

[re earlier speculation of 'file splits' making sig2dat/fasttrack quick links less useful

update: analysed d/l'ed file, compared hash to quick link. The problem appears not to be file splits but Opera rendering all letters in Quick Link URLs as lower case, even tho hashes are mix of upper & lower case.

As the hashing system is case-sensitive, this is probably the reason why quick links clicked in Opera always say 'More sources needed'.]

SA_Dave · 07-06-02, 12:30 PM

Version 3.10.a (2 June) fixes Opera issues.

AYB · 07-06-02, 01:01 PM

napho: our name is a little er... controversial

you'll c wat i mean soon enuff (i hope

). my partner in crime has finished his exams today and he's handling the business setup so I can start pressing him to get things wrapped up now

BuzzB2K: you *could* throw out your old cup, but u mite not get a replacement for some time

seriously tho, we want to avoid selling the merchandise without an app to go with them

StereoDeluxe · 08-06-02, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AYB
napho: our name is a little er... controversial

AAIR

05-06-02, 10:24 PM	#28
multi Thanks for being with arse Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The other side of the world Posts: 10,343	good thread THREADS EXEL AWARD well were can i start (again) AYB-i would like to help in any way too ,but i am only a dial up user ...dont know if it will be suited for me to try ive done some beta testing but my main reports went into a forum but the programmers never hardly showed ..... to naphos initial topic..... i collect stuff for yrs since c64 amiga500 days i guess u would call me an obbsessed software collector.......... but i hope share all or any of it when i can(not the old stuff) i have d/l 1 movie. i get mp3's from numerous freinds and making my own music is more important to me i guess and theres enough peeps out there doing that lol ; ) but for the bad ones and the malicious fake file shareres need there nuts taken off with those little rubber rings they put on sheep circumcision could be an option for the bad girls but Willow i can understand the humour like what u say i got no idea what movie leecher would be like while running a server on bband....the lamers that grab the first thing no info no care then they musnt care if they get the fakes .....kidding they only do it once i bet so if they are like the now famous <eRRoR FRoZ> they will get hacked by their modem lights and all will be well -hit alt cntrl del really fast TWICE and it will work....ffs man i am piSSed oFF i typed a great post really long and lost it.... i guess u know how that goes..(next time i save every thing to note padb4 i hit submit)it only does it when u do a long post? ok im trying to recreate it in my mind but i fear this wont be as good __________________ i beat the internet - the end boss is hard Secret Temple of It

06-06-02, 07:25 AM	#30
BuzzB2K Just another cat on the FastTrack... Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hamilton Posts: 727	A P2P coffe mug sounds like a good idea __________________ Buzz FastTrack Central - FastTrackMovies.com - Sig2dat for Idiots

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05-06-02, 11:14 AM	#23
AYB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 82	User such as your fine selves will very much be a part of the development process, at all stages. Our catch phrase is "Putting the peer back into p2p" I am slightly concerned about letting too early a build out tho, I don't want ppl to consider us just another gnutella client based on our first release. First impressions are important

05-06-02, 03:56 PM	#26
Mowzer ' Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 209	I think were just a little bit off topic there willow. Sounds good AYB. Will it be open source? At least by setting up a company, you will protect users from lawsuits, and be able to take the shelling yourself. Unless the RIAA abandons that route, and actually does decided to go after users. I am sure your client will make a fine first impression, as it seems to be spawned by a true p2p lover. I havent detected greed in any of your posts. Congrats. (P.S dont hire harby as your PR guy.)

05-06-02, 05:25 PM	#27
twinspan - a rascal - Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: for security reasons, never the same as the President's Posts: 759	re few sources for quick links, a couple of points that might redeem FT/Sig2Dat somewhat: 1. sources for Quick links: LAN ips keep getting in there, wasting time and making the client think that once it's checked out all those LAN addresses, it's done a useful search of the network. Indy's working hard on this issue to cut out all the LAN ips, hopefully future sig2dat links will be more effective. WARNING: HALF-ASSED LAMER SPECULATION BELOW (and above, maybe ) 2. File 'splits': seems that even if no-one really does anything to a file, it can still end up receiving tiny changes that make no difference to us watching or listening the final result, but does make a difference to the FT network, which thus gives its own separate hash sig. So you get file 'splits' with the same movie/whatever having more than one hash; and the different 'versions' flux in popularity. e.g. tried d/ling a movie off FT overnight from a quick link on JD's site, came back next day: not a single KB d/l'ed! ('More Sources Needed'). And I had been running FastTrack Accelerator too. So i shut down & restarted with MorpheusX; after a few hours still no luck. ('More Sources Needed') So then I did what I would have done before quicklinks: i ran a search in grokster for what I wanted. Two versions with the exact same file size came up (and exactly the same as the size mentioned for the quick link): one with only one source, the other with plenty of sources. I clicked on the second, and it started d/l'ing straight away! With geuinely plenty of sources contributing to my download speed. I suspect that quicklinks are often made for one branch in a file 'split' that happens to become a dead end for some reason, the other split became more popular on the network, which sees them as completely different files and won't 'reunite' them. And quick links are no more intelligent than FT itself, so so they are just as much victim to file splits as the network.

06-06-02, 04:10 AM	#29
AYB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 82	Warning, possible greed coming up Open source is a bit of a tricky issue. We definately support the notion of open source and are referring to quite a lot of open source code in our development but at the same time we are hoping to get some kind of financial reward out of this app, and we just aren't sure what effect, if any, making it open source would have on this. Let me immediately clarify about making money. We will NOT have ANY spyware, crapware etc. The program will not have built in ads. The program will be completely freeware, there will be no "pro" version you have to pay $30 for. Every single way we have of making money will be completely opt in, and we're relying on the fact that producing a quality app will make ppl want to give us something back in return. Firstly we'll accept donations via PayPal. Secondly we'll participate in a number of affiliate programs, with ppl like amazon.com. When you want to buy a book (or dvd or whatever else amazon are now selling ) and at the same time give us a little something in return, you simply click on the link to amazon.com on our webpage. You get what you want with albeit a little bit of fuss, but without actually paying anything extra you've given us a reward. Thirdly we will have all kinds of quality merchandise, like tshirts and mugs We're hoping those will take off, particularly with our name they should be popular with music fans. (All in good time). And finally on the website we will probably have a page of the site dedicated to some banner ad programs, which you can click on if you have a few seconds to spare and the inclination to do so. Once again, completely opt in and you're not actually giving us anything aside from a little bit of your time And the ads will be monitored and we will NOT have any popups. If anyone is completely galled by this, or even slightly disgusted do let me know. We're trying very much to maintain a balance between not being greedy and seeking some (justified) reward for our coding time. Having said all of this, if the legal side of things looks like there is any chance of us being shut down, the source code shall be released immediately. multi inter user face: 56k users are very important to us. We imagine with all of our possible options enabled, the app will be VERY bandwith heavy. (Although there will be a HUGE number of customisation options to provide a range of performance. At the same time we don't want ppl to be completely baffled so there will be a "simple" mode which handles everything behind the scenes, with an "advanced" mode for all manner of tweaking) We will definately need dialup users in testing to help us gauge what kind of settings they can cope with. And we're aware that dialup is still a significant section of the internet community so we don't want to make our app "broadband only"

06-06-02, 10:41 AM	#31
Mowzer ' Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 209	What is the adress to sign up for the beta program? As for the ways you plan to make money, I think they are good, because there isnt too much else of a choice on how to earn cash with out being spyware heavy. The best place to ask would be the great beast slash dot. Send it in as a reader question to be posted. It seems how to generate revune and not kill off users is a holy grail. Congrats on not messing up GUI with ads.

06-06-02, 11:00 AM	#33
AYB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 82	There's nothing approaching a beta program yet And I can't give out the web address until the domain is an "official company asset" and I can't transfer it until the company is set up...

06-06-02, 11:19 AM	#34
JackSpratts Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 10,017	when you're ready... we'll be here. - js.

07-06-02, 01:12 AM	#35
napho Dawn's private genie Join Date: May 2001 Location: the Canadian wasteland Posts: 4,461	AYB, how about naming rights? Companies have paid up to $100 million to put their name on an arena or stadium; if you could get together with a company to use their name or them use your program's name it could mean cash upfront and a stream of income if your p2p does well. That would be painless for everyone.

07-06-02, 07:47 AM	#37
twinspan - a rascal - Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: for security reasons, never the same as the President's Posts: 759	[re earlier speculation of 'file splits' making sig2dat/fasttrack quick links less useful update: analysed d/l'ed file, compared hash to quick link. The problem appears not to be file splits but Opera rendering all letters in Quick Link URLs as lower case, even tho hashes are mix of upper & lower case. As the hashing system is case-sensitive, this is probably the reason why quick links clicked in Opera always say 'More sources needed'.]

07-06-02, 12:30 PM	#38
SA_Dave Guardian of the Maturation Chamber Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unimatrix Zero, Area 25 Posts: 462	Version 3.10.a (2 June) fixes Opera issues.

07-06-02, 01:01 PM	#39
AYB Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 82	napho: our name is a little er... controversial you'll c wat i mean soon enuff (i hope ). my partner in crime has finished his exams today and he's handling the business setup so I can start pressing him to get things wrapped up now BuzzB2K: you could throw out your old cup, but u mite not get a replacement for some time seriously tho, we want to avoid selling the merchandise without an app to go with them