The Clash of Civilizations & the Great Caliphate

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by Drakonix

It does some poking at both sides.

yeah, the left and anyone not on the right.

- js.

[albed]

The whole situation speaks to replacing backward, primitive cultures with more evolved ones for the good of everyone. Colonialism had its benefits.

Unfortunately the leftist liberal culture of today believes every culture is equal and must be preserved no matter its brutality and repressiveness and it has bred a generation of moronic "war is not the answer" degenerates without the sense to defend humanity against a newly empowered backward culture that will eliminate virtually all individual freedom and the social evolution that comes from it.

Ironically if the liberals had to give up movies and music along with drugs and alcohol it would not only stimulate them to resistance but it would remove the very factors that lead them to view the world as some fuzzy fantasy that shouldn't be tampered with and bring them into the struggle for survival that is required of every living thing.

[Sinner]

The bottom line is Liberals can not be trusted with National Security...

[floydian slip]

seeing how the southern border is still open for anyone to come on in, the "conservatives" cant be trusted either. the bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own security and if you think that any form of govt can protect you from evil then you are delusional.



Some hand in hand,
Some gather together in bands,
The bleeding hearts and artists,
Make their stand.
And when theyve given you their all,
Some stagger and fall.
After all its not easy,
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.

[Mazer]

floyd, without the resources the government puts to use, how are you or anyone eles able to secure themselves? The framers of our government knew exactly what its purpose would be, and they stated that purpose in the preamble of our Constitution. Read it, and understand that none of the things it lists would be at your disposal without some form of government. If we are in the middle of a great culture clash as the above articles suggest, then we'll need much more than we can each provide for ourselves in order to stave off the jihad. It's not something I'm particularly alarmed about, but still, our nation is fighting with itself instead of its enemies. I wouldn't be surprised if many Americans welcomed the distruction of our culture and our beliefs and that makes securing my self and my family that much more difficult.

[floydian slip]

Originally Posted by Mazer

floyd, without the resources the government puts to use, how are you or anyone eles able to secure themselves?

by resources i assume you mean my tax dollars?

you make it sound like we are helpless without an authority to tell us what to do.

The framers of our government knew exactly what its purpose would be, and they stated that purpose in the preamble of our Constitution. Read it, and understand that none of the things it lists would be at your disposal without some form of government.

was there no justce before the united states? was there no domestic tranquility? we would have had all of that if we just paid our outrageous taxes to the queen, but we wanted to represent ourselves and have our own govt. Its getting to that point again where the peoples interests are not represented by our elected leaders, most (not all) of our leaders are bought and paid for by corporations.

If we are in the middle of a great culture clash as the above articles suggest, then we'll need much more than we can each provide for ourselves in order to stave off the jihad. It's not something I'm particularly alarmed about, but still, our nation is fighting with itself instead of its enemies. I wouldn't be surprised if many Americans welcomed the distruction of our culture and our beliefs and that makes securing my self and my family that much more difficult.

imo, the reason why there are jihadists and are so pissed off is because our corporations/military industrial complex are in thier backyards trying to dictate democracy to them. just like iran in the 50's and iraq in the 60's they are overthrowing thier govts and trying to put a pro west puppet in place. when the brits carved up the ottoman empire after WW1, they planted the seeds for conflict. now we are reaping what they have sown. to think that we are making the world a safer place by pre emptive shock and awe to disrupt the "jihad" is uniting some pissed of moslems.

its funny how the roman empire crumbled from the inside due to corruption and bad leadership. might history be repating itself again.

[Mazer]

Was that last sentence a question? If it was then the answer is no simply because the USA is not an empire. We don't have client states or colonies that pay tribute to us and we don't have an emperor. If we were an empire we wouldn't have a terrorism problem because we could turn the middle ease into a monument of smoldering craters and we wouldn't have to worry about the repercussions. Things would be easier, but then we'd be more like subjects than citizens, wouldn't we?

No, before the Constitution was ratified there was no justice nor domestic tranquillity. When the revolution concluded our states were surrounded by enemies and sometimes treated each other as such. A second revolution to overthrow the new government had to be put down with military force. The constitutional convention was a response to that sitation, and it established a government meant to represent the people as much, and eventually more than, the states. So whatever corruption you're seeing in our government is a reflection on you and me and every citizen, whether we all vote or not. (On a side note, the taxes we pay now are far more outrageous than anything the British parliment mandated.)

Without a federation of states, and a system of courts, and police, and an army and navy, and roads, schools, welfare systems, and the myriad of other government programs, we would all have to fend for ourselves, not exactly helpless, but certainly unable to repell jihadists who wish an end to the western world.

In my opinion we have the right, simply by existing, by being alive, to defend ourselves, even if that means destroying a culture that turns people into suicide bombers. And the more terrorists that culture produces, the sooner we can destroy it. We could leave them alone, and let the jihad follow us home, for it will not end simply because we're not actively provoking it. Or we could take the fight to them. Either way, this jihad must be endured and a generation must die before a peaceful conclusion is met. It won't happen to your satisfaction in your lifetime, floyd, certainly not before Bush's term ends. The question is do you want our soldiers as your proxy, trained, supplied, and paid by the government, to fight your enemies overseas, or are you as an individual solely responsible for your own security? Don't be surprised if other people disagree with your answer, and please don't call them delusional for doing so.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by floydian slip

its funny how the roman empire crumbled from the inside due to corruption and bad leadership. might history be repating itself again.

Hold-on there, There is a lot more to the fall of Rome than that, you are taking 1200 years of history and breaking it down in one sentence.

The Romans made a choice, either to remain a free republic or be a superpower. They chose to remain a superpower and to accept the military dictatorship of Julius Caesar and his successors. Once you begin down the path of being a superpower, there is no turning back. When you become a power, you can’t just change your mind one day because you have created to much hatred toward you. You must follow that path to the end, and the Romans chose to follow it to the end. They assumed the burden and created the greatess legacy of any Empire in history. I can go on and on, but one thing a will say and a will quote it, you can make parallels.

You can look to the MiddleEast as one of the turning points,

We are on patrol today in Iraq. Men and women of the United States armed forces in armored vehicles patrol the streets of Baghdad. They pass in the way of so many who have come before them: the Egyptian charioteers of Ramses II, the Macedonian phalanx of Alexander the Great, the Roman legionnaires of Caesar and Trajan, the Crusaders of Richard the Lion-Hearted, the legionnaires of Napoleon, the Camel Corps of Lawrence of Arabia.

All of these have come through the Middle East. Many of them have come with the best of intentions, by their lights, to bring stability, even freedom to the Middle East. All have passed away. The Middle East has been the graveyard of empires.

In the course of history, we have come to take up that burden. We live in a time as momentous as that of the American Revolution, the Civil War, the days after Pearl Harbor. In each of these watersheds in our history, we have not only taken up the burden, but we have advanced the cause of freedom.

In the American Revolution, we saw to it that a nation could be established under liberty and law. In the American Civil War, we purged ourselves of the great evil of slavery so that we could go on and become a model for the world. In World War II and the Cold War that followed, we advanced the cause of freedom so that today, more people live in freedom than at any other time in history. That is the result of America bearing this burden.

I think that September 11 is just as important a date as Pearl Harbor, and we now advance into a new and dangerous era. Think of Winston Churchill when he said how Britain set out across unknown seas, through uncharted waters towards unknown shores, guided only by the beacon of freedom. We have another guide, and that is history and the lessons of history. For the founders of our country, history was the most important single discipline that every citizen of a free republic should study.

So, Will America follow the path the Romans took or the Path Sparta had taken??

Good read, you can take for what ever it is worth -à http://www.heritage.org/Research/Pol...ophy/hl917.cfm

If you don’t want to read it all…..at least read Rome, Germany, and the Middle East section. It is interesting if you like Roman history.