Iran: A Bridge too Far?

[RDixon]

Since when do the Iranians use English or is this proof that the Bush admin is secretly arming Iran?

The ineptitude of the Bush admin continues to boggle the minds of sane people everywhere.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2...ieve-this.html

[albed]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Since when do the Iranians use English or is this proof that the Bush admin is secretly arming Iran?

The ineptitude of the Bush admin continues to boggle the minds of sane people everywhere.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2...ieve-this.html

I'd take your word that there's english on that mortar round but unfortunately you're just to stupid to trust. So where's the english?

Look, I admit, I don't know much about bomb-making. And I don't know much about how factories label bombs.

No doubt this seems like a well informed source to you. But that's just because you're so incredibly clueless.

[RDixon]

albed: adjective:
a: slow of mind: obtuse b: given to unintelligent decisions or acts: acting in an unintelligent or careless manner: c: lacking intelligence or reason.

You shall henceforth be known as torpid.

The perfect Bush follower.

[Mazer]

English is the international language of business, and the metric system is ubiquitous. Believe it or not, Iranians are capable of learning English. 'HE' is the international symbol for high explosive, and people everywhere know how to use common era notation for the date. If these shells were meant to be used by people who don't speak Persian then it's only natural that they'd be labeled this way.

Since when do Iranians use English? Since long before the 1979 revolution.

[RDixon]

Maybe if I file the point a bit...
Make it sharper...

Does that look like a shell produced in Russia?
China?

Bush admin says it came from Iran.

If you believe that then...

Here, take this shell and this hammer...

[Sinner]

Does that look like a shell produced in Russia?
China?

I don’t know but give me some paint and I can make it look like it is. I can make it say anything you want quite easily

Bush admin says it came from Iran.

Oh well then it has to be false, and it will not matter what evidence comes out because you will take the word of a American Hating dictator over your own government. Your hated is blinding you. I don’t know where it came from but if this is your proof it is from the USA, (Pretty Weak)-- I have to ask aswell – is the USA the only English speaking country in the world? I swore there where others, Yeah, wait a minuite I live in one and I am from another. Maybe they are Irish bombs? Na, that wouldn’t fit into the conspiracy so for this argument we will say the USA is the only English speaking country in the world, makes it more believable in this situation.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Sinner

I don’t know but give me some paint and I can make it look like it is. I can make it say anything you want quite easily



Oh well then it has to be false, and it will not matter what evidence comes out because you will take the word of a American Hating dictator over your own government. Your hated is blinding you. I don’t know where it came from but if this is your proof it is from the USA, (Pretty Weak)-- I have to ask aswell – is the USA the only English speaking country in the world? I swore there where others, Yeah, wait a minuite I live in one and I am from another. Maybe they are Irish bombs? Na, that wouldn’t fit into the conspiracy so for this argument we will say the USA is the only English speaking country in the world, makes it more believable in this situation.

The Iranians do not hate America.
They don't much care for the government here though and I can't really fault them for that considering what my government has done to them over the past 60 years.

Sinner, if you are so gung ho for war why don't you come down here and apply for citizenship?
Hell the military here right now would induct you even without you being a citizen.
They would be more than happy to facilitate your desires to fight "evil dictators"; or are you like so many others; just a keyboard warrior?

I don't have much respect for a man who talks the talk but refuses to walk the walk.
That's why I have 0 respect for Bush and the rest of his "war for fun and profit" pals.

[multi]

Originally Posted by RDixon

Since when do the Iranians use English or is this proof that the Bush admin is secretly arming Iran?

The ineptitude of the Bush admin continues to boggle the minds of sane people everywhere.

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2...ieve-this.html

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/doc...?resultpage=1&

this is the full powerpoint presentaion that pic came from

[Drakonix]

Show me a link to an official U.S. military source site that claims that the picture shown above is an Iranian made mortar shell.

The Iranian made "Explosive Formed Penetrator" or EFP devices they have been talking about are not mortar shells and do not look like that.

They can not be correctly classified as an IED (Improvised Explosive Device) because they are not improvised devices. They are being mass-manufactured in Iran for a specific purpose - to kill and maim Iraqi and coalition soldiers.

The picture above is simply anti-Bush, anti-war propaganda.

See picture below for the Iranian made EFP device.

[multi]

One ambassador in Washington said he was taken aback when John Hannah, Vice President Cheney’s national security adviser, said during a recent meeting that the administration considers 2007 “the year of Iran” and indicated that a U.S. attack was a real possibility.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/hannah-iran/

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Drakonix

Show me a link to an official U.S. military source site that claims that the picture shown above is an Iranian made mortar shell.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021100479.html

[Drakonix]

Try again, if you wish.

The WP article you linked to does not show the picture of an 81mm mortar round and claim it was of Iranian origin.

The article is NOT from an official U.S. military source.

The WP article specifically mentions a special bomb type coming from Iran and specifically mentions "explosively formed penetrator" or EFP:

During a long-awaited presentation, held in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone, the officials displayed mortar shells, rocket-propelled grenades and a powerful cylindrical bomb, capable of blasting through an armored Humvee, that they said were manufactured in Iran and supplied to Shiite militias in Iraq for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi troops.

U.S. military officials in Iraq had previously described the use of "explosively shaped charges" to target vehicles, but Sunday's briefing was the first time they displayed pieces of what they called an "explosively formed penetrator" or EFP.

The EFP devices are "explosively shaped charges" that expel a high velocity armor defeating metallic projectile in a specific direction.

The EFP devices are large and quite powerful. For example, a standard CD or DVD is 120mm in diameter. So, the 81 mm mortar shell is approximately 32% smaller in diameter than a CD. The EFP devices are about 12 inches (approximately 305mm) in diameter, or over two and half times larger than a CD, and about 376% the size of the 81mm mortar shell. Whereas the mortar shell explodes in a circular pattern, the EFP device directs the force of the blast in a narrow aimed direction.

The article says photographs were not allowed during the presentation:

The officials released a PowerPoint presentation including photographs of the weaponry, but did not allow media representatives to record, photograph or videotape the briefing or the materials on display.

The "precision machining" characteristic of Iranian origin is of the EFP devices, NOT ordinary mortar or rocket propelled grenade munitions. Specifically, the precision machining is of the metallic disk that becomes the projectile when the device detonates. It's shape is special and causes the force of the explosion to be concentrated in a specific direction.

The 81mm mortar round depicted with a claim that the U.S. military stated it is of Iranian origin is apparently a hoax perpetrated by an anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-U.S. source.

The article you linked to confirms the facts that I have posted regarding the Iranian made EFP devices.

[RDixon]

Let the back-peddling begin.
Now we see why none of the "military officials" in Baghdad that presented the slideshow that DID include the picture of the mortor round were so keen on not being identified.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...8N8SBQO1.shtml

[Drakonix]

The slideshow did include pictures of mortar rounds and rocket propelled grenades, as the WP article states. It is true that such munitions have been used to construct IED roadside bombs.

From the descriptions of the presentation, the slideshow did not present a 81mm mortar round as Iranian made. The Iranian made devices in question are not mortar rounds or rocket propelled grenades, they are EFP devices.

IMO the statement

That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this," Pace said. "What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers.

does indeed qualify as "back-peddling" when contrasted to much stronger statements recently made. The inference in previous statements is clearly that the Iranian Government is directly involved. However, it is important to note that General Pace has a minority opinion about the involvement of the Iranian Government in the matter.

The 81mm mortar round picture and caption claiming that the mortar round munition is certified by the U.S. military as Iranian is simply a purposeful lie by anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-U.S. source(s).

Again, it is the EFP devices that are Iranian made, or minimally contain Iranian made parts.