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20-11-04, 10:16 AM | #41 | ||
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First, you seem to assume that you can identify any lie. You cannot. Most information you receive, can not be verified by yourself. If it appears likely enough, you will just believe it. And if you wait just long enough, most of the information won't even be physically verifiable. For all we know, the ancient cultures of Rome, Egypt or Greece may have been made up by someone else. Since that does not appear likely, we believe what historical documents and artifacts tell us about Rome, Egypt and Greece. Second, you seem to believe that people prefer the truth over a good lie. They don't. Lies can often be much easier to understand and to accept as the truth. Why do you think people believe in God? Do we have any proof that he exists? No. Does it seem even likely that he exists, according to science? No. So - logically - God is most probably a lie. Yet so many people firmly believe that there is a God. They do so for many reasons but basically it is just convenient for them if there is a God, a form of higher justice, a legitimation for their own actions and a deeper meaning of life. People choose a reality that appears likely they call it truth and call anyone who refuses it a liar. |
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20-11-04, 01:35 PM | #42 | |||||||
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20-11-04, 11:30 PM | #43 | ||||
flippin 'em off
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Truth and reality aren't matters of opinion, they have established defintions and standards of proof. You can claim otherwise but you've already begun demonstrating what your opinion is worth. |
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21-11-04, 05:30 AM | #44 | ||||||
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You use your personal experience (something highly subjective, also far from absolute), to identify liars - you have some profile and if somebody fits that profile (the way he talks, the way he looks, you will most likely be unable to identify what exactly is so suspicious about him), he has to be a liar. You claim to use logic, I doubt that. I will give you an example: Your neighbour says an flying saucer landed in his backyard last night. You look outside and you see the backyard the way you remember it from yesterday without any kind of UFO. And nobody else saw or heard anything either. What does logic tell you here? Logic tells you that either your neighbour doesn't tell the truth or that the UFO simply landed while nobody else was looking. The second possibility may seem less probable than the first according to your experience but logic itself will not prefer one possibility over another. In order to use logic to identify truth, you would at least need some other truth (and not just any truth - 'cogito ergo sum' is not sufficient) to start with, but you are judging based on your own experience - and your experience has nothing to do with the absolute truth, it is based on what you see and on what you remember and on what you WANT to remember. Quote:
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21-11-04, 11:27 AM | #45 | |
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Gregorio, since you're new here, allow me to help you out and save you some time.
Your epistemological arguments, as applied to the P2P Zone's poster-child for homeland insecurity, are entirely futile. Below are a few excerpts from The Book of Albedisms: Quote:
Therefore, if you're really into providing stimulus for other people's masturbation, I know of some much better looking guys than albed who have webcams and will drop the tiresome quasi-intellectual pretense altogether. Barring that, you might just want to stick to communication with the adults here. |
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21-11-04, 05:54 PM | #46 | |
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21-11-04, 07:03 PM | #47 | |
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Try the underground, if you dare Welcome gregorio! |
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21-11-04, 08:16 PM | #48 | |
flippin 'em off
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21-11-04, 09:05 PM | #49 | |
my name is Ranking Fullstop
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21-11-04, 09:26 PM | #50 |
flippin 'em off
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You don't get around much do you knife?
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21-11-04, 09:33 PM | #51 | |||||||
flippin 'em off
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Last edited by albed : 21-11-04 at 10:57 PM. |
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22-11-04, 02:23 AM | #52 | |
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are flour jokes frowned upon? just say the safe word at any time and hi gregorio, welcome to the asylum, where views seldom change and logic means little. but we have alot of fun with it. right albed? |
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22-11-04, 06:51 AM | #53 | ||||||
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So, what do you actually know about reality or the truth? Nothing. You can assume that what you remember was really the way you remembered it. You can assume what you see is some glimpse of reality. But consider this, you are meeting an old friend from school, you talk about a particular event of which either of you has a slightly different memory. You have to admit that stuff like that happens occasionally, - how will you ever find out that your memory serves you right? Given all this, do you really think, you know the truth or reality? Isn't it possible that you are wrong and I am right? And I am going to tell you, you are wrong. I am right. And I'm not going to prove it to you, because I can't, as well as you can't prove the opposite. But I can argue that my explanation of the world is much more plausible than yours and therefore we should agree that it is true until somebody comes up with a better explanation. |
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22-11-04, 11:53 AM | #54 | ||
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That's absolutely priceless. Actually, in my opinion, the epithet 'weak minded and irrational' pretty much applies by definition to anyone who believes there's a big invisible man in the sky who's going to judge them when they die, but aside from that, since one of the basic tenets of most religions is thou shall not bear false witness, if they further lie about their beliefs, we have at best 'many' raging hypocrites here, if not candidates for reality therapy. Also, if they lie about their beliefs, it would be pretty obviously weak minded and irrational of these supposed 'scientific studies' to subsequently qualify the veracity of their claim that they are liars, but aren't lying about lying, as some sort of viable statistic. If you've 'studied psychology' you probably already know all about wish fulfillment, and your belief that such 'scientific studies' even exist is exactly that. But of course it's entirely reasonable for you to invoke phrases such as 'scientific studies' when you're really only referring to unsubstantiated opinions and half-baked speculations to support this idea that you have a greater ability to discern the truth than anyone else. After all, that basic contention couldn't possibly get any more ludicrous even if you tried. Quote:
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22-11-04, 06:45 PM | #55 |
flippin 'em off
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So you've decided to join my audience after all and attempt to provide masturbation stimulous along with tiresome quasi-intellectual pretense.
It sure isn't stimulating to me; try talking dirty. If someone's lying about a professed belief that prohibits lying then it's a perfectly rational and reinforcing indication that that person doesn't really believe what they've professed. duh Also, like I posted before, and you didn't understand, to learn the truth you study people's behaviour free from peer pressure and contrast it with their professed beliefs. If someone switches religions or privately violates basic tenents of a professed religion it's strong evidence that their true beliefs aren't what they've claimed. I personally know plenty of people who pay lip service (not what you're thinking) to their religion, attend the functions and go through the rituals, and are no more religious than I am. Last edited by albed : 22-11-04 at 06:59 PM. |
22-11-04, 07:19 PM | #56 | |
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...and since you claim that these seemingly fluffy little bits of offhand pseudo-knowledge are based on scientific studies, no doubt by reputable organizations judged by you as adhering to such high standards, you'll now have no trouble at all producing evidence of them, as I'm sure they must be lying around on your desk at this very moment, artifacts testifying to your vast, ongoing and rigorous research of human psychology.
If you can't produce them on the other hand, and let us judge for ourselves whether they are reputable and scientific, I'm afraid you'll have to be labeled just another low-life liar by your own criteria. Quote:
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22-11-04, 07:25 PM | #57 |
flippin 'em off
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Wow! You're even more of a fan than I thought. I've actually got 2 dozen minimized pages on my desktop along with a couple locked up ones from chasing psychology links. Still interesting and still plenty to learn. I'll keep an eye out for studies.
Actually I noticed I've branched out into social sciences too. I get this way. |
22-11-04, 08:33 PM | #58 | |
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Don't feel bad, a lot of novices mistake scientism for true science like that, especially if they're not particularly bright or have some kind of impulsive agenda obliterating their objectivity. But I have little doubt that if you google it hard enough you can find something to support any lying burst of gas that was designed to create the illusion that you were actually in possession of some superior form of knowledge. As quite possibly your biggest fan, I can't wait to see what you might come up with, but my money is actually on you making a few more snide and beside the point comments and then slinking off like you never really got your ass handed to you at your own petty game. |
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22-11-04, 09:04 PM | #59 | ||
flippin 'em off
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Nag, nag, nag....you are the worst masturbation stimulus on the internet.
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22-11-04, 09:37 PM | #60 | ||
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Yeah, a search for "religion, lying and statistics" would certainly turn up those pages, unfortunately the words lie or lying are only mentioned three times in a very oblique way that neither has anything to do with your argument that 'many people lie about their beliefs', nor is anything but purely speculatory rhetoric appraising the meaning of statistics with a preconceived distinction that the nature of a person's god concept plays a role in the meaning of religion, qualifications that are nowhere to be found in the data being approached, and hardly represent 'scientific studies.'
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If this is what you consider science, it's no wonder your view of the world is so damned comical. |
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