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20-11-05, 08:38 AM | #21 | |
Earthbound misfit
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21-11-05, 03:07 PM | #22 | |
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The final vote is 403-3 (6 present, 22 not voting) on immediate withdrawal from Iraq. So, when Democrats hold press conferences stating we should 'immediately redeploy' ('Retreat hell! We're just redeploying gradually in a different direction when 'practicable!'), they are speaking figuratively.
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21-11-05, 03:37 PM | #23 |
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i haven't heard more bulsh*t since vietnam. typical republican grandstanding while more continue to die.
- js. |
21-11-05, 03:58 PM | #24 | |
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Really? read Murtha's resolution again then.....The US Congress has learned the Vietnam lesson: We will not abandon our friends and allies to the good wishes of murdering thugs. Jack Murtha is an American hero, who has learned the other Vietnam lesson: RUN!!
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21-11-05, 07:35 PM | #25 |
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i'm not sure where you get your information concerning vietnam but i suggest you get a refund. vietnam had a civil war. the parties in question were the fascist establishment vs the communist upstarts. what we had was an academic philosophy of "containment" that had nothing to do with the people of vietnam, or as it turns out, reality.
the lesson we learned cost 50,000 american lives and an untold number of asians, but it was simple: we can't stop someone else’s civil war by occupation unless we care to send our young there to die indefinitely - and - we fix the problem politically. even then we have no guarantees. the same lesson applies to iraq. perhaps even more so since the internal hatred reaches back to a time america wasn't even a concept. the shiites and the sunnis will have their civil war, whenever we leave, regardless of how efficient we make their militia killing machines. the sunnis will be crushed, the shiites victorious and all this talk about balance forgotten as some kind of absurdist conservative think tank fairy tale the muddled masses swallowed whole. in the meantime more americans will die in the slow waltz to the inevitable. - js. |
21-11-05, 11:47 PM | #26 |
Earthbound misfit
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Please stop comparing Iraq to Vietnam, there's no way 58,000 American soldiers are going to die there. There's no draft. There's no Ho Chi Minh trail. The comparison is not only futile, it's tiresome.
Shiites and Sunnis aren't as despairate to kill each other as you think. A civil war might be inevitable if we left them alone now, but the longer we engage them politically the more they learn and more preventable civil war becomes. Besides, if the Shiites decide to slaughter Sunnis then Saudi Arabia will close its borders to all Shiites, not just Iraqis. Without access to Mecca an international war might begin, and nobody in the middle east wants that to happen. So if a couple thousand soldiers dying will save the lives of millions of Muslims then it's something we must do. |
22-11-05, 08:30 AM | #27 | |
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as for your feelings, well now if it's so tiresome for you sitting at home, imagine what it's like for those young americans who have to somehow deal with this neverending mistake on the ground. that they traveled there on intelligence manipulations is bad enough, that they stay to die is untenable. with or without us the ancient middle eastern tribes will do what they've always done, but it's past time our people returned. - js. |
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22-11-05, 09:08 AM | #28 |
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If your feeling sorry for those poor, poor, pooooor soldiers just remember they kill at least 10 times as often as they get killed Jack. And the fighting's been going on long enough that many if not most have had time to leave the military or not join if they didn't want to serve in Iraq. So I don't think they need you whining for them. I doubt they've had time to listen to all the liberal comparisions to Vietnam but if they did they'd no doubt find it as tiresome as everyone else.
Last edited by albed : 22-11-05 at 10:00 AM. |
22-11-05, 11:57 AM | #29 |
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CNN management has launched an internal investigation into how a giant black 'X' mark appeared over Vice President Dick Cheney's face -- as he delivered a speech from Washington on Monday!
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4cnc.htm scary shit i wonder what they are trying to say. im sure they will find some low level scapegoat. |
22-11-05, 12:40 PM | #30 | |
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Jack, AMERICA MUST PREVAIL, You can not Run this time;
Murtha whined on the floor of the house about the dead and injured soldiers as a lot of the liberal left do, your enemies would rightly conclude that Americans are weak and will run when they shed blood, Rome Fell, The USA was not put in this position, 911 happened, and yes I bring 9/11 into this. Was Saddam connected to the terrorist attacks? No he most likely was not, but Did Saddam hate America? With Afghanistan no longer a safe haven for terrorist, would Saddam open his country to them? BTW, don’t even try to say Iraq is now a safe haven for terrorist, there are more terrorist in Iraq now, but they are far far from safe, remove American troops from Iraq right now – well then they are safe. Saddam needed to be removed and removed when he was, why wait until he builds his army up, get WMD, or helps the terrorist attack America again, the world is safer with out Saddam controlling Iraq. What are your opinions on this article? Quote:
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22-11-05, 07:28 PM | #31 | ||
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forget democracy, no dancing in the streets, farewell to all that - Iraq was a neocon fantasy that was dead on arrival. the only remaining question is how many more get killed before we write it off and call it a day. as well we should. we got Saddam, no wmd's, mission accomplished - bring 'em home, end of story. btw, the government of iraq wants us out, too: Quote:
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22-11-05, 10:01 PM | #32 |
flippin 'em off
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The Iraqi legislature needs to pass a law then. Do you understand legality? Fuck you don't even understand grammar and punctuation. Get a clue you straw grasping liberal.
An education and a sense of ethics wouldn't hurt you either. Both sorely lacking. |
23-11-05, 12:53 AM | #33 |
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Knife, the only person to suggest that anyone wants our troops to say there indefinitely is you, but it simply isn't true. While the Cheney spokesperson who you continually quote was obviously way off the mark when he suggested the invasion would take weeks, not months (and what authority does such a person have to make such a prediction anyway?), I think that phrase demonstrates this administration's strong desire to bring this war to a quick end. Iraq's government understands this, which is why they're working on this timetable. The word timetable implies that they want our troops to leave gradually over a period of time, otherwise they would simply have made an ultimatum. The simple fact is that there is a lot of work yet to be done, millions of man hours need to be invested, and the old saying 'many hands make light work' still applies. Decreasing our presence there too sharply will ensure that the work will never be done so I'm afraid we can't just cut and run.
I am of course writing from the presumption that peace is attainable in the middle east. Anybody who thinks civil war is a foregone conslusion is arguing from ignorance. Tribalism in the middle east gave way to federalism many generations ago, and since then Arabs and Iranians have learned to settle disputes diplomatically. Maybe they need more practice, but like I've said, nobody in the middle east wants open war among Muslims, with a few exceptions. Hell, maybe we should send Bono in to help the Shiites and Sunnis learn to get along. At any rate, the defeatist attitude I've seen here and among Democrats in congress is ludacris. For the politicians, the call to remove our troops from Iraq is a calculated move, but for the rest of us regular folk it's just a symptom of the media's selective reporting. In truth progress towards peace continues and will continue, and frankly, the fact that any American thinks that this war or any war is unwinnable deeply saddens me. If that attitude had previaled during the early stages of the American revolution then there would be no United States to speak of because for more than a year we were on the loosing side of that war. Beating the odds has always been the American way and I hope it always will be. |
23-11-05, 10:46 PM | #34 | ||
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24-11-05, 01:53 AM | #35 |
Earthbound misfit
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Thanks for checking my spelling, albed, er I mean theknife.
But back to your point, an insurgent who attacks military targets and avoids civilians is clearly not a terrorist, and I can say that without endorsing their actions. So can Iraq. They don't support the insurgency, officially anyway, but like you they worry too much about symantics. While they don't actually recognize the insurgent's right to resist, they do recognize the insurgent's right not to be mislabeled. Americans have the right to kill insurgents, and so far Iraq has acknowledged that right and supported us in that effort with their police and military forces. They're clearly on our side. |
24-11-05, 06:17 AM | #36 | ||
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in Vietmam or the American revolution the difference in military technology wasnt as uneven..but the insurgencies were much better organised and had much greater numbers than the one in iraq...the insurgencies beat the odds..sure and there was fairly positive outcomes after although one did slip into a long and bloody civil war but most countries the british have invaded and then left have they dont look like pulling out of iraq anytime soon...either http://news.scotsman.com/internation...?id=2285782005 |
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24-11-05, 09:44 AM | #37 |
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btw, anyone hear the rumor bush is drinking again? it's going around the press corps along w/the ones he's not speaking to his dad & he's furious at cheney/rumsfeld for talking him into this fiasco...one rumor goes he was so stupid he really believed their fairly tale versions of "weeks not months" and "greeted as liberators w/flowers" etc, and now after bringing in al-qaeda from the harsh desert and giving them thier own comfy state and he's stuck with the problem he's "really mad about it! big fat liars" etc.
could be true, could be baloney or maybe he's getting crafty - he believed none of the fairy tales but he's resetting history so he doesn't come off as the worst us prez ever, just your atypical woolly-headed ex-doper, misled by evul trolls he was sure were pals. - js. |
24-11-05, 12:24 PM | #38 | |
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Something to chew on..............
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24-11-05, 01:30 PM | #39 | |
my name is Ranking Fullstop
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25-11-05, 08:58 AM | #40 |
flippin 'em off
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Someone with a propensity for the word "thier" shouldn't even mention someone else's mispelling of a much larger word.
I'm really a vocabulary nazi though and don't bother much with spelling. |
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