The Illegal Immigration thing - P2P-Zone

vernarial · 14-06-07, 05:32 PM

Here is a funny little e-mail I got a few years ago. It was done in jest, but also makes some good points.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love America

I come for visit, get treated regal,
So I stay, who care I illegal?
I cross border, poor and broke,
Take bus, see employment folk.

Nice man treat me good in there,
Say I need to see welfare.
Welfare say "you come no more,
We send cash right to your door."

Welfare checks, they make you wealthy,
Medical, it keep you healthy!
By and by, I got plenty money,
Thanks to you---American dummy.

Write to friends in motherland,
Tell them come as fast as you can.
They come in rags and Chevy trucks,
I buy big house with welfare bucks.

They come, we live together,
More welfare cash, it gets better!
Fourteen families now move in,
But neighbors patience growing thin.

Finally, white guy moves away,
Now I buy his house and then I say.
Find more aliens for house to rent,
And in the yard I put a tent.

Send for family (they just trash),
But they too draw welfare cash!
Everything is mucho good,
Soon we own the neighborhood.

We have hobby---its called breeding,
Welfare pay for baby feeding.
Kids need dentist? Wife needs pills?
We get free! We got no bills!

America is crazy, he pay all year
To keep welfare running here.
We think America damn good place!
Too damn good for the white-man race.

If they no like us, they can go,
Got lots of room in Cuba, Haiti & Mexico

"Boy, I love America."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seriously this is what I think....

One point that upsets me is the fact that these illegal aliens are just that. Illegal. If I (or any reasonable person in my opinion) wished to immigrate to another country, I could guarantee that my first act when coming to the new country would not be to break the law. It seems to me like everyone is just talking about letting them off. OK, I agree that the laws need to be changed. But it is still the law.

I kinda like the guest worker visa idea. Maybe we could set up special border crossing points and have people there giving half hour orientations called "Welcome to the USA, land of opportunity.(if you are among the wealthy 5%)
Seriously, just give 'em a quick "Hi, how are ya? I'm Vern, who are you? Staying long?" Give them a guest worker visa and let 'em have at it. At least then they aren't here illegally. Have the visa be for X number of years and then the gotta apply for citizenship if they wanna stay.

They are gonna keep coming. We need to adjust our current laws so it is more like we are welcoming them and trying to help them intigrate rather than criminalise them. Those of the illegal ones that are already here should have to pay some small fine for breaking the law and then we can help them get back in good standing.

My conspiracy theory is that eventually our domestic and multi national corporations will keep sending jobs to Mexico and Latin America and Asia because us lazy overpaid USA workers want too much and eventaully all the jobs will be in other countries and our government will become a military dictatorship and we will be crossing the borders trying to find a better life for our families. I just hope they treat us better than we have treated immigrants throughout the history of the USA.
I don't differentiate a human by the place they were born. They all have equal value in my eyes. Living in this new global world I don't believe borders mean that much and we should treat people from other countries as we would people living in our own.

Mazer · 14-06-07, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vernarial

They are gonna keep coming. We need to adjust our current laws so it is more like we are welcoming them and trying to help them intigrate rather than criminalise them.

See, I think it should be just the opposite. For those immigrants who want to come here legally and contribute to society, America should be open and welcoming. But for those who don't care to do things our way, they should be made to feel like they're breaking into prison when they hop the border, they ought to feel stupid for even trying. Legal immigration should be so appealing and illegal immigration so unappealing that nobody would even think about breaking our immigration laws.

vernarial · 14-06-07, 10:02 PM

Thats what I'm talking about in that quote. Making it so easy and appealing to be a legal immigrant. Sure, illegals need to pay a price for their crime. But it needs to be reasonable. The punishment needs to fit the crime, and if the laws are made so that it would be easier to come here and be a citizen and pay the same and serve the same as everyone else, then why would anyone want to be here illegally. Help them learn english and help intigrate them into useful productive citizens.
I don't know. If I had the perfect answer, maybe I would be head of Homeland Security. I'm just not usually for taking the hard line with people. Wanna be friends with everyone.

theknife · 15-06-07, 06:33 AM

stop the illegal wave and the rest will sort it self out. American culture is robust and elastic and will absorb those who are already here. bilingual services are no threat to my culture, nor are legal non-citizen residents any threat to sovereignty - the US admits between 600,000 and 1,000,000 of them every year. they pay taxes, they work, they come, they go, some become citizens, some do not - so what?

the La Raza thing is a nice touch of hysteria, btw - represents, at best, a infinitesimal percentage of the Latin community...about as much a threat as, say, La Cosa Nostra or the Asian Tongs.

Mazer · 15-06-07, 09:53 AM

You're inferring things I never implied, knife. Resident aliens are just fine with me as long as they remain in good standing with the law. They aren't the subject of dispute right now; nobody is suggesting we change the status of current visa and green card holders. I have been careful to keep my comments focused on illegal aliens only, so please stop trying to change the subject.

So you're comparing the concept of La Raza to criminal organizations? It's a cultural mindset, not a group of people. Unlike other strains of multiculturalism this one has no respect for our borders nor our electoral process, and now it's beginning to take form as a political movement. If, by allowing foreign nationals to stay here illegally, we allow foreign interests to influence our government then, yes, it is a threat to our sovereignty.

albed · 16-06-07, 06:21 AM

To theknife you're actually not making a single point about illegal immigration - you're making a lot of noise about welfare and people for whom English is a second language and legal immigrants.

It's a mark on how determined some people are to cling to their beliefs that they refuse to even acknowledge any facts that might counter them no matter how obvious they are.

theknife · 16-06-07, 06:51 AM

you're just not paying attention, but i'll try once more - stop the wave of illegals by sealing the borders. the country will absorb the ones who are here, into the economy (immediately), and the culture (ultimately). in the end, thier grandkids will look like yours, only thier's will probably be a lot nicer.

14-06-07, 05:32 PM	#1
vernarial The Fungus Among Us Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 152	Here is a funny little e-mail I got a few years ago. It was done in jest, but also makes some good points. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ I love America I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care I illegal? I cross border, poor and broke, Take bus, see employment folk. Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare. Welfare say "you come no more, We send cash right to your door." Welfare checks, they make you wealthy, Medical, it keep you healthy! By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks to you---American dummy. Write to friends in motherland, Tell them come as fast as you can. They come in rags and Chevy trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks. They come, we live together, More welfare cash, it gets better! Fourteen families now move in, But neighbors patience growing thin. Finally, white guy moves away, Now I buy his house and then I say. Find more aliens for house to rent, And in the yard I put a tent. Send for family (they just trash), But they too draw welfare cash! Everything is mucho good, Soon we own the neighborhood. We have hobby---its called breeding, Welfare pay for baby feeding. Kids need dentist? Wife needs pills? We get free! We got no bills! America is crazy, he pay all year To keep welfare running here. We think America damn good place! Too damn good for the white-man race. If they no like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Cuba, Haiti & Mexico "Boy, I love America." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seriously this is what I think.... One point that upsets me is the fact that these illegal aliens are just that. Illegal. If I (or any reasonable person in my opinion) wished to immigrate to another country, I could guarantee that my first act when coming to the new country would not be to break the law. It seems to me like everyone is just talking about letting them off. OK, I agree that the laws need to be changed. But it is still the law. I kinda like the guest worker visa idea. Maybe we could set up special border crossing points and have people there giving half hour orientations called "Welcome to the USA, land of opportunity.(if you are among the wealthy 5%) Seriously, just give 'em a quick "Hi, how are ya? I'm Vern, who are you? Staying long?" Give them a guest worker visa and let 'em have at it. At least then they aren't here illegally. Have the visa be for X number of years and then the gotta apply for citizenship if they wanna stay. They are gonna keep coming. We need to adjust our current laws so it is more like we are welcoming them and trying to help them intigrate rather than criminalise them. Those of the illegal ones that are already here should have to pay some small fine for breaking the law and then we can help them get back in good standing. My conspiracy theory is that eventually our domestic and multi national corporations will keep sending jobs to Mexico and Latin America and Asia because us lazy overpaid USA workers want too much and eventaully all the jobs will be in other countries and our government will become a military dictatorship and we will be crossing the borders trying to find a better life for our families. I just hope they treat us better than we have treated immigrants throughout the history of the USA. I don't differentiate a human by the place they were born. They all have equal value in my eyes. Living in this new global world I don't believe borders mean that much and we should treat people from other countries as we would people living in our own. __________________ Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. – P.J. O'Rourke None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. – Goethe A truth that's told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent. - William Blake P2P Consortium

14-06-07, 10:02 PM	#3
vernarial The Fungus Among Us Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 152	Thats what I'm talking about in that quote. Making it so easy and appealing to be a legal immigrant. Sure, illegals need to pay a price for their crime. But it needs to be reasonable. The punishment needs to fit the crime, and if the laws are made so that it would be easier to come here and be a citizen and pay the same and serve the same as everyone else, then why would anyone want to be here illegally. Help them learn english and help intigrate them into useful productive citizens. I don't know. If I had the perfect answer, maybe I would be head of Homeland Security. I'm just not usually for taking the hard line with people. Wanna be friends with everyone. __________________ Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. – P.J. O'Rourke None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. – Goethe A truth that's told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent. - William Blake P2P Consortium

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15-06-07, 06:33 AM	#4
theknife my name is Ranking Fullstop Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Promontorium Tremendum Posts: 4,391	stop the illegal wave and the rest will sort it self out. American culture is robust and elastic and will absorb those who are already here. bilingual services are no threat to my culture, nor are legal non-citizen residents any threat to sovereignty - the US admits between 600,000 and 1,000,000 of them every year. they pay taxes, they work, they come, they go, some become citizens, some do not - so what? the La Raza thing is a nice touch of hysteria, btw - represents, at best, a infinitesimal percentage of the Latin community...about as much a threat as, say, La Cosa Nostra or the Asian Tongs.

15-06-07, 09:53 AM	#5
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	You're inferring things I never implied, knife. Resident aliens are just fine with me as long as they remain in good standing with the law. They aren't the subject of dispute right now; nobody is suggesting we change the status of current visa and green card holders. I have been careful to keep my comments focused on illegal aliens only, so please stop trying to change the subject. So you're comparing the concept of La Raza to criminal organizations? It's a cultural mindset, not a group of people. Unlike other strains of multiculturalism this one has no respect for our borders nor our electoral process, and now it's beginning to take form as a political movement. If, by allowing foreign nationals to stay here illegally, we allow foreign interests to influence our government then, yes, it is a threat to our sovereignty.

16-06-07, 06:21 AM	#6
albed flippin 'em off Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the real world Posts: 3,232	To theknife you're actually not making a single point about illegal immigration - you're making a lot of noise about welfare and people for whom English is a second language and legal immigrants. It's a mark on how determined some people are to cling to their beliefs that they refuse to even acknowledge any facts that might counter them no matter how obvious they are.

16-06-07, 06:51 AM	#7
theknife my name is Ranking Fullstop Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Promontorium Tremendum Posts: 4,391	you're just not paying attention, but i'll try once more - stop the wave of illegals by sealing the borders. the country will absorb the ones who are here, into the economy (immediately), and the culture (ultimately). in the end, thier grandkids will look like yours, only thier's will probably be a lot nicer.