It smells like fish (or the $35.8 million government gift to Del Monte)

[vernarial]

Originally Posted by Mazer

It's fair to the extent that it will apply everywhere, but people support the minimum wage law precisely because it unfairly redistributes wealth to people who haven't earned it.

Like you pointed out, Drak, this issue isn't about fairness, it's about making the new Speaker of the House look bad. Considering that dozens of news outlets have covered this story I'd say that it's having the desired effect.

I don't understand how you could think the minimum wage worker hasn't earned a bit of a raise. This country was built on the backs of common minimum wage workers while corporate fat cats get rich milking them for all they're worth. I think the wealth has been unfairly distributed for a long time and this mistake is just now starting to be rectified.

[Mazer]

That's a fine opinion to have, and I understand where you're coming from, Vern. It's just my opinion that in a western democratic/capitalist society the market determines what's fair. I can tell you, working for a small company with a handful of employees, that my boss isn't a fat cat getting rich by paying some of his employees seven dollars an hour. Around here we earn what we're worth, it's only fair.

Face it, some people just aren't worth as much as everyone else.

The minimum wage isn't about making things fair, it's about keeping people from falling so far below the poverty line that they'll never recover. It's the so called safety net you hear about sometimes. People earning minimum wage should be motivated to work harder and earn more to better support themselves and their families. But if you raise the minimum wage too much you take away that motivation. The true measure of any welfare system is the number of people it helps raise above the poverty line. Raising the minimum wage also raises the poverty line, if you think about it, and raising it too much actually puts more people below the line than above it.

In the case of this congress, the Democrats are trying to buy the votes of the poor with someone else's money. In this case, raising the minimum wage is also unethical as well as unfair. That's how I see it.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Mazer

That's a fine opinion to have, and I understand where you're coming from, Vern. It's just my opinion that in a western democratic/capitalist society the market determines what's fair. I can tell you, working for a small company with a handful of employees, that my boss isn't a fat cat getting rich by paying some of his employees seven dollars an hour. Around here we earn what we're worth, it's only fair.

Face it, some people just aren't worth as much as everyone else.

The minimum wage isn't about making things fair, it's about keeping people from falling so far below the poverty line that they'll never recover. It's the so called safety net you hear about sometimes. People earning minimum wage should be motivated to work harder and earn more to better support themselves and their families. But if you raise the minimum wage too much you take away that motivation. The true measure of any welfare system is the number of people it helps raise above the poverty line. Raising the minimum wage also raises the poverty line, if you think about it, and raising it too much actually puts more people below the line than above it.

In the case of this congress, the Democrats are trying to buy the votes of the poor with someone else's money. In this case, raising the minimum wage is also unethical as well as unfair. That's how I see it.

The Republicans in the Senate, 21 of which are up for reelection in 08, don't really give a crap's ass whether the minimum wage is raised or not.
They are just stalling the Iraq war resolution vote which will force them to go on record as either for the war or against it.
And while they are stalling, Bush will be deploying the new troops to the big mistake and then they can go back to the old stand-by, "that's old news".

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, "If they defeat cloture on minimum wage, they think we're going to bring this right back? Oh, no we're not. We're going to move to another subject they don't like to talk about: escalation of the war in Iraq... they know when minimum wage is finished, we're going to Iraq."

Bush and what's left of his rubber stamping congress are still in denial.
To them, the November election either did not happen or the results were much different than what they were in reality.

The minimum wage will be increased, as it should be, and I do not see America going back to the days of company towns and company stores and paying the workers with script that can only be spent at the company store; you know; back when "the capitalists" ie. those with the money, determined what was "fair".

[Mazer]

So basically what you're saying is that the Democrats don't really care whether this bill makes it to Bush's desk or not, they're more worried about Iraq. We're you trying to change my mind? You've only convinced me that the Dems are no less corrupt and self interested than the Republicans and that their one and only concern is playing politics so they can get Clinton back in the White House. They want to get her on record as being in opposition to the war as soon as possible so she can officially announce her candidacy on a Bush Failed™ platform. They couldn't care less about minimum wage, or any other domestic issue, could they?

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Mazer

So basically what you're saying is that the Democrats don't really care whether this bill makes it to Bush's desk or not, they're more worried about Iraq. We're you trying to change my mind? You've only convinced me that the Dems are no less corrupt and self interested than the Republicans and that their one and only concern is playing politics so they can get Clinton back in the White House. They want to get her on record as being in opposition to the war as soon as possible so she can officially announce her candidacy on a Bush Failed™ platform. They couldn't care less about minimum wage, or any other domestic issue, could they?

Who are you and what have you done with Mazer?

[Mazer]

Don't you mean what happened to the stereotypical wing-nut Bush lover named Mazer? I think your prejudice must have created him, because I'm not him and I never was.

[RDixon]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Don't you mean what happened to the stereotypical wing-nut Bush lover named Mazer? I think your prejudice must have created him, because I'm not him and I never was.

No.
I meant that prior post made by you was devoid of even pseudo intellectuality.
Perhaps you were PWI?

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Don't you mean what happened to the stereotypical wing-nut Bush lover named Mazer? I think your prejudice must have created him, because I'm not him and I never was.

no, really?

Originally Posted by MAzer

You've only convinced me that the Dems are no less corrupt and self interested than the Republicans and that their one and only concern is playing politics so they can get Clinton back in the White House.

pathological obsession with a Clinton is usually the wing-nut smoking gun

[albed]

Originally Posted by vernarial

I don't understand how you could think the minimum wage worker hasn't earned a bit of a raise. This country was built on the backs of common minimum wage workers

Another history retard; this country was built long before there was a minimum wage.

Originally Posted by vernarial

I think the wealth has been unfairly distributed for a long time and this mistake is just now starting to be rectified.

Wealth isn't "distributed" it's created. If you're not smart or energetic enough to create wealth for yourself then you'll have to work for people who are. And if those people can get someone who'll work for less than you then they have every right to hire him and kick your bitchy ass out the door as another fine example of a loser who bites the hand that feeds him.

Funny; I've known welfare losers with the same attitude about their government handouts: 'those fuckers should give me more and do more for me'.