Poll: What should the US do about Iran - P2P-Zone

Mazer · 26-01-07, 05:54 PM

Yes.

They're just doing a bad job of making that fact widely known. Hey, I have no problem if the commander-in-chief is more concerned with doing his job well than making it look like he's doing his job well. Some politicians never stop campaigning, never stop checking the polls, never realize that our nation is a republic and not a democracy. Bush ain't like that, and that's either his greatest strength or his greatest flaw depending on who you ask. For me, it just means he's got guts, and that's what a good president needs most. So he and his people come off looking like bad decision makers. So what?

theknife · 26-01-07, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

Yes.

They're just doing a bad job of making that fact widely known. Hey, I have no problem if the commander-in-chief is more concerned with doing his job well than making it look like he's doing his job well. Some politicians never stop campaigning, never stop checking the polls, never realize that our nation is a republic and not a democracy. Bush ain't like that, and that's either his greatest strength or his greatest flaw depending on who you ask. For me, it just means he's got guts, and that's what a good president needs most. So he and his people come off looking like bad decision makers. So what?

well ok, so they make gutsy bad decisions. not sure what is admirable about this - gutsy and dumb is still dumb.

miss_silver · 26-01-07, 09:53 PM

JackSpratts · 27-01-07, 12:07 AM

at some point pr ends and reality begins. it's a point we've long since met. they come off looking like bad decision makers because their decisions are in fact, bad. bob gates, no panty waist apologist he, acknowledged this in the senate hearing.

are we winning the war?

no sir.

were we led to believe then that the combined might of the us armed forces, along with many of her allies, couldn't beat a country like iraq? hardly. so what's so special about this war? constant bungling from the bad deciders destroyed whatever advantage we may have once had.

that they keep making these decisions doesn't make them noble. it makes them pathological.

- js.

Mazer · 27-01-07, 03:40 AM

So what you're saying, Jack, is that this war was winnable at the outset, but sometime after the invasion the initiative was lost and then the war became unwinnable. And because of this the president should ignore the mandate of the people who reelected him. He shouldn't take the power shift in congress as a hint to improve his strategies, rather he should just give up 'cause that's what a good politician does. Retaking the initiative, making this war winnable again, is far less important than saving face. After all even a bungler gets lucky, and every decision he makes is a chance for him to get it right and turn it all around, and we can't possibly allow that to happen, can we?

No, I'm pretty sure the president's public image has gotten away from him and taken on a life of its own. How else do you explain all the people who would rather see the president impeached than see peace restored to the Middle East? I think deep down everyone wants the war to be won, I think that's what the recent election was all about. There just happens to be a whole lot of people who would hate for the man they voted against to accomplish anything positive. That they keep believing all of Bush's decisions are bad, even the good ones, makes them pathological.

We have to question whether the public thinks the war is being lost based on the testimony of experts like Robert Gates or based on the president's reputation. The latter is probably a greater factor than the former, which means that if we started winning this war only a minority of people would actually believe it. Just because the president is in denial doesn't mean the public isn't suffering from mass delusion.

theknife · 27-01-07, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

How else do you explain all the people who would rather see the president impeached than see peace restored to the Middle East?

i don't know of anybody prefers impeachment over peace - source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

We have to question whether the public thinks the war is being lost based on the testimony of experts like Robert Gates or based on the president's reputation. The latter is probably a greater factor than the former, which means that if we started winning this war only a minority of people would actually believe it. Just because the president is in denial doesn't mean the public isn't suffering from mass delusion.

Bush's reputation didn't make the war go bad; it's the war that made his reputation go bad. 68% of the public doubt Bush's competence - not because they hate him, but because he's incompetent. it's really not that complicated.

Mazer · 27-01-07, 04:55 PM

It's a chicken and egg conundrum then. Might be a good question for an other poll.

View Poll Results: What action should the United States take concerning Iran?
Military action	0	0%
Diplomatic action	8	66.67%
No action, because Iran is not a threat	4	33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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26-01-07, 05:54 PM	#1
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	Yes. They're just doing a bad job of making that fact widely known. Hey, I have no problem if the commander-in-chief is more concerned with doing his job well than making it look like he's doing his job well. Some politicians never stop campaigning, never stop checking the polls, never realize that our nation is a republic and not a democracy. Bush ain't like that, and that's either his greatest strength or his greatest flaw depending on who you ask. For me, it just means he's got guts, and that's what a good president needs most. So he and his people come off looking like bad decision makers. So what?

26-01-07, 09:53 PM	#3
miss_silver Keebeck Canuck Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Close to a border of LUNATICS Posts: 1,771

27-01-07, 12:07 AM	#4
JackSpratts Join Date: May 2001 Location: New England Posts: 10,023	at some point pr ends and reality begins. it's a point we've long since met. they come off looking like bad decision makers because their decisions are in fact, bad. bob gates, no panty waist apologist he, acknowledged this in the senate hearing. are we winning the war? no sir. were we led to believe then that the combined might of the us armed forces, along with many of her allies, couldn't beat a country like iraq? hardly. so what's so special about this war? constant bungling from the bad deciders destroyed whatever advantage we may have once had. that they keep making these decisions doesn't make them noble. it makes them pathological. - js.

27-01-07, 03:40 AM	#5
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	So what you're saying, Jack, is that this war was winnable at the outset, but sometime after the invasion the initiative was lost and then the war became unwinnable. And because of this the president should ignore the mandate of the people who reelected him. He shouldn't take the power shift in congress as a hint to improve his strategies, rather he should just give up 'cause that's what a good politician does. Retaking the initiative, making this war winnable again, is far less important than saving face. After all even a bungler gets lucky, and every decision he makes is a chance for him to get it right and turn it all around, and we can't possibly allow that to happen, can we? No, I'm pretty sure the president's public image has gotten away from him and taken on a life of its own. How else do you explain all the people who would rather see the president impeached than see peace restored to the Middle East? I think deep down everyone wants the war to be won, I think that's what the recent election was all about. There just happens to be a whole lot of people who would hate for the man they voted against to accomplish anything positive. That they keep believing all of Bush's decisions are bad, even the good ones, makes them pathological. We have to question whether the public thinks the war is being lost based on the testimony of experts like Robert Gates or based on the president's reputation. The latter is probably a greater factor than the former, which means that if we started winning this war only a minority of people would actually believe it. Just because the president is in denial doesn't mean the public isn't suffering from mass delusion.

27-01-07, 04:55 PM	#7
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	It's a chicken and egg conundrum then. Might be a good question for an other poll.