The Illegal Immigration thing - P2P-Zone

albed · 29-04-06, 02:26 PM

The system isn't "broken" like all the worthless politicians say, the government is. It won't enforce its own laws because of its corruption.

The illegals wouldn't come to the U.S. if it weren't for employers eager to hire them for substandard wages and unsafe working conditions that the government agencies turn a blind eye to. Or for the free(to them) health care, education, welfare benefits, and automatic citizenship to U.S. born children.

My libertarian views are that anyone should be free to go where they want and do what they want within reason, but taking from others should be forbidden.

A century ago immigrants paid their own way and worked their way up the income ladder and made the country better but now illegal immigrants take, with the help of the corrupt government, many things that american citizens have paid for; medical care, education, housing, food, the justice system, etc.

They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

dumwaldo · 29-04-06, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

Or they are a blessing that the United States would not have existed without.

The examples offered are an exageration of a very minute minority. I am confident in saying there are more american born people defrauding public agencies than there are illegal aliens.

A century ago imigrants came to this country and found citizenship in a matter of days. Currently a potential citizen has a minimum wait time of at least 7 years. A century ago imigrants came to america with nothing but a desire to be american and they were granted citizenship. Currently an individual needs a purpose greater than personal enrichment as well as someone who will offer 'sponsorship'.

Please do not take this as any type of personal attack or insult but comparing immigration of a century ago with the current disgracefull state of immigration is simply ignorant.

I still maintain the immigrants are not the problem, the hostility displayed by american people and politicians is the problem. Maybe we should just give the reins back to the native americans and they can kick us all out of THEIR country.

albed · 29-04-06, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

A century ago imigrants came to this country and found citizenship in a matter of days. Currently a potential citizen has a minimum wait time of at least 7 years. A century ago imigrants came to america with nothing but a desire to be american and they were granted citizenship. Currently an individual needs a purpose greater than personal enrichment as well as someone who will offer 'sponsorship'.

Please do not take this as any type of personal attack or insult but comparing immigration of a century ago with the current disgracefull state of immigration is simply ignorant.

So you're comparing the immigration of a century ago with the current to prove you're ignorant? That makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

Maybe we should just give the reins back to the native americans and they can kick us all out of THEIR country.

I think your hippie history class has misinformed you. Native americans never built a country and they were fighting, stealing, enslaving and killing each other long before europeans came over to join the fray.

theknife · 29-04-06, 06:44 PM

illegal immigrants are an essential component of the economy and deporting 12 million people is physically and politically impossible. call it a guest worker program or amnesty or whatever - might as well do it and get it over with.

29-04-06, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknife

illegal immigrants are an essential component of the economy and deporting 12 million people is physically and politically impossible. call it a guest worker program or amnesty or whatever - might as well do it and get it over with.

Is this just a straw man or has someone actually advocated the deportation of 12 million illegal immigrants?

albed · 29-04-06, 07:30 PM

It sounds just as phony as the claim that it's somehow impossible to deport 12 million criminals. I'm not sure how many are put into prison each year but it must be in the millions so people saying removing 12 million is impossible without any explanation why just reeks of bullshit.

Anyway if the U.S. government just starts imprisoning the criminals who employ illegal immigrants then the illegals would start packing and leaving on their own.

The "essential component of the economy" for theknife is probably his weed supply.

Mazer · 29-04-06, 06:52 PM

The mention of the seven year wait period and sponsorship reminds me very much of the endentured servitude most Americans' ancestors endured to earn their place in this land. It used to be that wealthy land owners would 'invest' in human capital by paying immigrants' way to the colonies and enslaving them for seven years before rewarding them with a little land and a little money. Endentured servants did this willingly. The result was a nation of staunch individualists who were able to liberate themselves from the rule of England despite their economic depression, their occupation by British troops, and their under supplied armies. They won because the United States is not just a nation of immigrants, it's a nation of the best and brighest immigrants the world had to offer; the product of a cultural eugenics movement, though nobody really understood that at the time it was going on.

I ask this question: if a seven year sponsorship for resident aliens allowed the thirteen American colonies to defeat and eventually replace Britain as the world's superpower, wouldn't it be wise to follow the same practices today?

dumwaldo · 30-04-06, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

So you're comparing the immigration of a century ago with the current to prove you're ignorant? That makes sense.

I think your hippie history class has misinformed you. Native americans never built a country and they were fighting, stealing, enslaving and killing each other long before europeans came over to join the fray.

So it would be OK for the goverment to come along and take away your home and property because your family fights inside the house?

Double standards are great to justify antisocial behaviour but it doesn't change the fact that it is hypocritical.

Just one question for you guys. How many illegal immigrants have you known in your life?

I have tyo ask because you people talk like they are a commodity. These are PEOPLE, with hopes and dreams the same as us. These are PEOPLE that are often caught up in a system that does not want to grant them citizenship.

BTW
Indentured servitude (see also slavery) ended a LONG time ago. As it should have.

Mazer · 30-04-06, 08:33 AM

I wasn't advocating voluntary slavery, I was illustrating its positive effect on the gene pool. But I don't see anything wrong with making immigrants work to earn the right to become Americans. It needs to be proved on a case-by-case basis whether immigrants belong here. A lot of them do deserve the chance to make it here, but you know what, a lot of them don't. Hopes and dreams alone are not enough to qualify any immigrant for citizenship.

30-04-06, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

I have tyo ask because you people talk like they are a commodity. These are PEOPLE, with hopes and dreams the same as us. These are PEOPLE that are often caught up in a system that does not want to grant them citizenship.

Imagine that, not wanting to reward PEOPLE that break our laws! What is this country coming to!??!?!

albed · 30-04-06, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

Just one question for you guys. How many illegal immigrants have you known in your life?

I have tyo ask because you people talk like they are a commodity. These are PEOPLE, with hopes and dreams the same as us. These are PEOPLE that are often caught up in a system that does not want to grant them citizenship.

I've known a number of criminals and of course they are P-E-O-P-L-E trying to support themselves and make a better life through car theft, burglery, drug dealing, etc. but they get caught up in a system that does not want to grant them the freedom to break the laws our society is based on.

And that's the way it should be.

dumwaldo · 01-05-06, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

I've known a number of criminals and of course they are P-E-O-P-L-E trying to support themselves and make a better life through car theft, burglery, drug dealing, etc. but they get caught up in a system that does not want to grant them the freedom to break the laws our society is based on.

And that's the way it should be.

Are you really that stupid or are you just being obstinant and sarcastic?

theknife · 01-05-06, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumwaldo

Are you really that stupid or are you just being obstinant and sarcastic?

bingo

Nicobie · 08-06-07, 05:28 PM

silly peeps.........

Nicobie · 08-06-07, 05:29 PM

cabbage us good.

08-06-07, 05:28 PM	#14
Nicobie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 5,522	silly peeps......... __________________ May your tote always stay tight and your edge eversharp :wink:

08-06-07, 05:29 PM	#15
Nicobie Registered User Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 5,522	cabbage us good. __________________ May your tote always stay tight and your edge eversharp :wink:

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29-04-06, 02:26 PM	#1
albed flippin 'em off Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the real world Posts: 3,232	The system isn't "broken" like all the worthless politicians say, the government is. It won't enforce its own laws because of its corruption. The illegals wouldn't come to the U.S. if it weren't for employers eager to hire them for substandard wages and unsafe working conditions that the government agencies turn a blind eye to. Or for the free(to them) health care, education, welfare benefits, and automatic citizenship to U.S. born children. My libertarian views are that anyone should be free to go where they want and do what they want within reason, but taking from others should be forbidden. A century ago immigrants paid their own way and worked their way up the income ladder and made the country better but now illegal immigrants take, with the help of the corrupt government, many things that american citizens have paid for; medical care, education, housing, food, the justice system, etc. They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

29-04-06, 06:44 PM	#4
theknife my name is Ranking Fullstop Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Promontorium Tremendum Posts: 4,391	illegal immigrants are an essential component of the economy and deporting 12 million people is physically and politically impossible. call it a guest worker program or amnesty or whatever - might as well do it and get it over with.

29-04-06, 07:30 PM	#6
albed flippin 'em off Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the real world Posts: 3,232	It sounds just as phony as the claim that it's somehow impossible to deport 12 million criminals. I'm not sure how many are put into prison each year but it must be in the millions so people saying removing 12 million is impossible without any explanation why just reeks of bullshit. Anyway if the U.S. government just starts imprisoning the criminals who employ illegal immigrants then the illegals would start packing and leaving on their own. The "essential component of the economy" for theknife is probably his weed supply.

29-04-06, 06:52 PM	#7
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	The mention of the seven year wait period and sponsorship reminds me very much of the endentured servitude most Americans' ancestors endured to earn their place in this land. It used to be that wealthy land owners would 'invest' in human capital by paying immigrants' way to the colonies and enslaving them for seven years before rewarding them with a little land and a little money. Endentured servants did this willingly. The result was a nation of staunch individualists who were able to liberate themselves from the rule of England despite their economic depression, their occupation by British troops, and their under supplied armies. They won because the United States is not just a nation of immigrants, it's a nation of the best and brighest immigrants the world had to offer; the product of a cultural eugenics movement, though nobody really understood that at the time it was going on. I ask this question: if a seven year sponsorship for resident aliens allowed the thirteen American colonies to defeat and eventually replace Britain as the world's superpower, wouldn't it be wise to follow the same practices today?

30-04-06, 08:33 AM	#9
Mazer Earthbound misfit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Washington Posts: 2,563	I wasn't advocating voluntary slavery, I was illustrating its positive effect on the gene pool. But I don't see anything wrong with making immigrants work to earn the right to become Americans. It needs to be proved on a case-by-case basis whether immigrants belong here. A lot of them do deserve the chance to make it here, but you know what, a lot of them don't. Hopes and dreams alone are not enough to qualify any immigrant for citizenship.