Cheney

[JackSpratts]

i haven't heard more bulsh*t since vietnam. typical republican grandstanding while more continue to die.

- js.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

i haven't heard more bulsh*t since vietnam. typical republican grandstanding while more continue to die.

- js.

Really? read Murtha's resolution again then.....The US Congress has learned the Vietnam lesson: We will not abandon our friends and allies to the good wishes of murdering thugs.

Jack Murtha is an American hero, who has learned the other Vietnam lesson: RUN!!

[JackSpratts]

i'm not sure where you get your information concerning vietnam but i suggest you get a refund. vietnam had a civil war. the parties in question were the fascist establishment vs the communist upstarts. what we had was an academic philosophy of "containment" that had nothing to do with the people of vietnam, or as it turns out, reality.

the lesson we learned cost 50,000 american lives and an untold number of asians, but it was simple: we can't stop someone else’s civil war by occupation unless we care to send our young there to die indefinitely - and - we fix the problem politically. even then we have no guarantees. the same lesson applies to iraq. perhaps even more so since the internal hatred reaches back to a time america wasn't even a concept. the shiites and the sunnis will have their civil war, whenever we leave, regardless of how efficient we make their militia killing machines. the sunnis will be crushed, the shiites victorious and all this talk about balance forgotten as some kind of absurdist conservative think tank fairy tale the muddled masses swallowed whole. in the meantime more americans will die in the slow waltz to the inevitable.

- js.

[Mazer]

Please stop comparing Iraq to Vietnam, there's no way 58,000 American soldiers are going to die there. There's no draft. There's no Ho Chi Minh trail. The comparison is not only futile, it's tiresome.

Shiites and Sunnis aren't as despairate to kill each other as you think. A civil war might be inevitable if we left them alone now, but the longer we engage them politically the more they learn and more preventable civil war becomes. Besides, if the Shiites decide to slaughter Sunnis then Saudi Arabia will close its borders to all Shiites, not just Iraqis. Without access to Mecca an international war might begin, and nobody in the middle east wants that to happen. So if a couple thousand soldiers dying will save the lives of millions of Muslims then it's something we must do.

[JackSpratts]

Originally Posted by Mazer

Please stop comparing Iraq to Vietnam, there's no way 58,000 American soldiers are going to die there. There's no draft. There's no Ho Chi Minh trail. The comparison is not only futile, it's tiresome.

Shiites and Sunnis aren't as despairate to kill each other as you think. A civil war might be inevitable if we left them alone now, but the longer we engage them politically the more they learn and more preventable civil war becomes. Besides, if the Shiites decide to slaughter Sunnis then Saudi Arabia will close its borders to all Shiites, not just Iraqis. Without access to Mecca an international war might begin, and nobody in the middle east wants that to happen. So if a couple thousand soldiers dying will save the lives of millions of Muslims then it's something we must do.

i'm not sure if we stayed long enough we wouldn't see those same casualties, but there isn't any way you can dismiss it out of hand, any more than than those who disregarded history and insisted we'd be out in weeks had any standing in truth. i would hope we don’t rack up 58,000, but hell, it could be more. the possibility exists. we won’t see those numbers if we leave beforehand tho. that’s about the only certainty. at this point in the conflicts more americans have died in iraq than in vietnam, so going by reality, instead of say, talk radio mythology, it's worse.

as for your feelings, well now if it's so tiresome for you sitting at home, imagine what it's like for those young americans who have to somehow deal with this neverending mistake on the ground. that they traveled there on intelligence manipulations is bad enough, that they stay to die is untenable. with or without us the ancient middle eastern tribes will do what they've always done, but it's past time our people returned.

- js.

[albed]

If your feeling sorry for those poor, poor, pooooor soldiers just remember they kill at least 10 times as often as they get killed Jack. And the fighting's been going on long enough that many if not most have had time to leave the military or not join if they didn't want to serve in Iraq. So I don't think they need you whining for them. I doubt they've had time to listen to all the liberal comparisions to Vietnam but if they did they'd no doubt find it as tiresome as everyone else.

[floydian slip]

CNN management has launched an internal investigation into how a giant black 'X' mark appeared over Vice President Dick Cheney's face -- as he delivered a speech from Washington on Monday!

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4cnc.htm

scary shit

i wonder what they are trying to say.

im sure they will find some low level scapegoat.