What was Mr. Bush thinking?

[Drakonix]

So now we are trying to blame President Bush and the government for damage caused by a Category 5 hurricane that is historically among the three most powerful hurricanes known? Nice try, but I'll not swallow that spoonful of low grade fertilizer.

Unless President Bush can wave a magic wand and stop hurricanes and/or raise the city of New Orleans above sea level, what happened with Katrina and New Orleans was a situation that could have happened at any time in the past, could (and probably will) happen again.

It could have been a lot worse. If the eye of the hurricane had hit about 40 or 50 miles further to the west, the storm surge would have been much stronger and made the current situation look tame in contrast.

Blaming President Bush or the government for (Category 5) hurricane related flooding in a city that has always been below sea level and is completely surrounded by waterways and wetlands is ridiculous.

There are a lot of folks (who happen to work for the government) who have done, and are continuing to do everything they can prior to and in the wake of this devastating storm.

Everyone has the right to speak as they wish. I choose to not disrespect the efforts of government and emergency services personnel with politically motivated bitching.

[legion]

Not a political post so forgive me for going off topic for a sec.

I think the experts in sinners quote are spot on.

Suhayda said that's possible. But another possibility is that, during the half-day floodwaters built up in Lake Pontchartrain and the canal, water may have percolated through the earthen part of the berm, undermining it.

That effect, combined with the cumulative pressure over time, may have caused a breakthrough.

"There's no question that those kind of conditions might have just reached the limit of what that particular levee could handle," said James "Bob" Bailey, a flood and wind hazard risk expert with ABS consulting in Houston.
It's also possible the levee was older and had degraded as all earthen and concrete structures do, he said.

In Dutch it is called a Kwel there is no English word for it but it is best translated as spring, well, or fountain if you will. It happens here every other fall/autumn and spring or so.

The water pressure on the river, lake or sea side of the levee will force water straight through it and the weight of the water on the “wet” side will push ground water up on the dry side, effectively weaken the levee. Not only the levee itself but also the ground it is build on.
Considering that New Orleans is below sea level ground water levels will be near to the surface so it doesn’t take all that much pressure (relatively speaking) before it will show up behind the levee.

Even if you build levees that are three miles high it will not protect you. Pumps are only effective over x distance and x height, even if you are able to build pumps large enough to handle such an amount of water where are you going to pump all that excess water too? Back into the lake, river or sea won’t do you any good for it won’t reduce the pressure for very obvious reasons. And pumping it all the way to Nevada where it might do some good is next to impossible.

We Dutchies know by now that if water wants to come in, it will, no matter how hard you try to keep it out. The only thing I can think of that might come close to a solution is that the state designate certain areas of (farm) land that can be flooded on purpose by breaking the levees in certain places to reduce the stress on them down stream and in densely populated areas. When it happens the farmers have to be compensated for the loss of his crops but I guess it will be a hell of a lot cheaper than rebuilding half a city.


attached image: small Kwel, the levee looks intact but water is clearly shown on the “dry” side of it. It is a prelude to a breakthrough

[theknife]

just in case you were wondering where your government's priorities lie:

U.S. Won't Relocate Soldiers for Katrina

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - There will be no large-scale shifting of U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with disaster relief in Louisiana and Mississippi, a U.S. Central Command spokesman said Thursday.

[albed]

Awww. What a shame for your terrorist allies knife.

[Drakonix]

It would be stupid and unnecessarily expensive to relocate soldiers on duty in Afghanistan and Iraq to help with Katrina relief efforts (given current needs and availability of aid).

Why? Because there are still plenty troops available still in the Country. Approximately 38,200 Army, Navy, and National Guard personnel have already been sent into the effected areas. Why bring soldiers from Afghanistan and Iraq when they can get them from Louisiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin (to name a few)? About one third of the troops are going to be allocated to help in law enforcement efforts such as help enforce curfew and quell the looting.

http://www.ngb.army.mil/

Further, military personnel are not the only folks aiding in the relief effort. Further personnel will come from other jurisdictions under "mutual aid", State and Federal disaster relief organizations, organizations like the Red Cross, and a heavy dose of disaster relief volunteers.

As I mentioned in a previous post, it takes time for the government to get things going in a disaster relief effort. The end result is that the effected areas will get whatever help they need from the Government and from private sector companies and individuals.

The Federal and State governments are actually doing pretty good so far. They were able to move in some personnel and equipment to outlying areas before the hurricane hit. Remember, this is the aftermath of a historically significant hurricane. It will take 1 - 2 years to undo the damage to the city structures. You can't reasonably expect overnight miracles.

Reading the text with an open mind also helps, bold emphasis added:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - There will be no large-scale shifting of U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with disaster relief in Louisiana and Mississippi, a U.S. Central Command spokesman said Thursday.

This means there could be some shifting of troops if this becomes necessary.

[theknife]

Originally Posted by Drakonix

It would be stupid and unnecessarily expensive to relocate soldiers on duty in Afghanistan and Iraq to help with Katrina relief efforts (given current needs and availability of aid).

Why? Because there are still plenty troops available still in the Country. Approximately 38,200 Army, Navy, and National Guard personnel have already been sent into the effected areas. Why bring soldiers from Afghanistan and Iraq when they can get them from Louisiana, Mississippi, and Wisconsin (to name a few)? About one third of the troops are going to be allocated to help in law enforcement efforts such as help enforce curfew and quell the looting.

http://www.ngb.army.mil/

Further, military personnel are not the only folks aiding in the relief effort. Further personnel will come from other jurisdictions under "mutual aid", State and Federal disaster relief organizations, organizations like the Red Cross, and a heavy dose of disaster relief volunteers.

As I mentioned in a previous post, it takes time for the government to get things going in a disaster relief effort. The end result is that the effected areas will get whatever help they need from the Government and from private sector companies and individuals.

The Federal and State governments are actually doing pretty good so far. They were able to move in some personnel and equipment to outlying areas before the hurricane hit. Remember, this is the aftermath of a historically significant hurricane. It will take 1 - 2 years to undo the damage to the city structures. You can't reasonably expect overnight miracles.

Reading the text with an open mind also helps, bold emphasis added:



This means there could be some shifting of troops if this becomes necessary.

oh yeah, the situation looks well in hand. those darn New Orleans Emergency Management officials just don't seem to be able keep an open mind:

New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes
By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer

Thursday, September 1, 2005
(09-01) 17:11 PDT NEW ORLEANS, (AP) --

New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday, as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. The tired and hungry seethed, saying they had been forsaken.

"I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive," said Canadian tourist Larry Mitzel, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. "I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire."

Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the frustration, fear and anger mounted, despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.

New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.

[theknife]

Katrina Donations Rise as Bush Taps Father, Clinton for Effort

Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Contributions for victims of Hurricane Katrina climbed to at least $82 million as President George W. Bush asked his father and former President Bill Clinton to lead a fund-raising effort.

Corporate giving made up a significant amount of the total, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy, as companies from Abbott Laboratories to Johnson Controls Inc. pledge money and supplies. Jerry Lewis's annual Labor Day telethon will include celebrity appeals for Katrina victims and the Muscular Dystrophy Association plans to give $1 million to help.

``As people focus more on what needs to be done, clearly it's going to be one of the most significant philanthropic efforts that America has put together,'' said Evan Goldstein, a spokesman for the Chronicle of Philanthropy.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...top_world_news

i doubt if i'm the first person to bring this up and i'm sure i won't be the last:

do we keep pumping money into Iraq at the rate of almost a billion dollars per week, while we attempt to fund relief efforts in Louisiana and Mississippi with charitable donations? so the people of Bagdhad can bank on the US taxpayer, but the people of Biloxi and New Orleans have to count on charity?

wtf is wrong with this picture?

[albed]

Originally Posted by theknife

oh yeah, the situation looks well in hand. those darn New Orleans Emergency Management officials just don't seem to be able keep an open mind:

Wow, a Canadian sissy! What's the world coming to?

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center,

OMG 7! THE HORROR!

I hear on the news about people viciously cursing the government for not immediately granting their wishes; fucking parasites have to support themselves for the first time in their lives and all they can do is steal from others and of course it's the government's fault.

But they're no different from the city politicians who also blame the federal government for not being ready to care for them when they get into trouble.

Does anyone actually take responsibility for their own lives in this country any more? Let the worthless, stupid fucks die off and the country will be better for it.

And ffs make it clear to the morons that if they rebuild and continue to live in that ridiculously unsuitable area they'll be left to die when the next disaster occurs.