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Peer to Peer The 3rd millenium technology! |
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16-07-04, 12:57 PM | #1 |
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I don't know if this is the correct place to ask this...
I have been a WinMX user for a couple of years now. True WinMX is flying under the radar right now but with the RIAA systematic attack on file sharing it is only a matter of time before it becomes one of their targets.
Having said that I would like to ask your opinions as P2P users about features you would like to see in a P2P application. My reasoning behind this is because I am a developer and I am in the process of creating a new P2P application that is fully decentralized, scalable, anonymous, and secure. I am about 50% of the way to creating a usable client and it's time to start thinking about feature sets. Questions: 1.) What is important to you in a P2P application? This could be any feature that you are currently using or have used. Such concrete things as chat, built in media organizers, built in media players, multi-source downloading, autoresume downloading, but can also include more subjective things such as better search results, d/l speed etc. Could you please prioritize your responses. I am a sole developer and I am trying to prioritize my development efforts. The reason why I worded this question this way will become clear in #3. 2.) How important is cross platform capabilities to you? 3.) What are the dream features that you would like to see. Let your mind run here. If you could build the perfect P2P client, what features not included in question #1 would it have? 4.) I think that this question will receive the most push back since I am asking this on a forum whos users use a free P2P application. I have a full time job that pays my bills and keeps a roof over my head but because of that I can't spend the amount of time in the development of this application as I would like or it deserves. I would love to work on it full time. What, do you feel, people could stomach paying for such and application? And what do you feel it would take for you to pay for such and application? 5.) Considering question #4 response, would there be any developers that would be interested in helping in the endeavor or creating the next generation P2P file sharing app? Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my questions. John |
16-07-04, 01:26 PM | #2 | |
Semiblind
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Search Results, Speed, Resumable downloads...auto or not, to hell with organizers and built in players...they just bloat the prog and everyone knows winamp is the best anyway. Multi Source is ok, as long as you have a way to check the files...when you have lots of sources, 1 bad file will screw up your download. 2. Cross platform...you mean for mac, linux, or for the different windows platforms? All windows platforms are a must!! Mac and linux should come as the prog gets more popular. 3. Something streamlined and simple. There is no need for all kinds of extras, if its simple and works, it will likely become very popular. A folder browser would be nice, and easy to do...just make a tab or whatever and have it point to the location on the drive so you can see your files. Being a musician, i feel that there should be a way for unsigned artists to promote their music with the prog...even if it is just a pic, a tracklist, a description, and a link to the bands webpage. Underground / Unsigned bands in general are ALWAYS looking for new ways to promote themselves...i feel this would be a big step in the right direction. 4. Free...if you want to charge for it, people will still use the free progs no matter what hassels there are....you cant compete with free....If i was going to pay for a program (which is more rare than a blue moom) it would have to have anything and everything...old, new...country to hip hop...no missing tracks, no missing albums, catolouged, tagged, album covers, track lists, descriptions, high quality rips...along with lower quality rips for slower connections, multiple formats, (mp3, FLAC, ogg, etc) , codecs for the different formats, and most importantly...the downloads would have to NEVER bottom out...if i have a 3Mbit connection, and its all available to use, i expect to get blazing speed. Basicly, it should be your 1 stop shop for all your music needs... 5. Im not a developer, so i cant help you there. |
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16-07-04, 02:29 PM | #3 | |||||
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GutrGuy,
Thanks for responding. I agreee with the points you made but wanted to clarify a few things. Quote:
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Be good or be good at it, John |
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16-07-04, 03:07 PM | #4 |
Semiblind
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,857
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ill get back with ya...gotta go to band practice, then to work...so likely sometime tomorrow....
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16-07-04, 03:52 PM | #5 | |
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I know that recording equipment and studio time are very costly. So is touring. Many bands take a loss on tours, but do it anyway to promote CD sales. Imagine if Led Zeppelin had stopped after their first album because they had no revenue comming in, and no way to afford further recording? No Whole Lotta love. No Stairway to Heaven. These classics were inspired by, and recorded because of money. If they weren't getting paid, they wouldn't have done it. I think people are willing to pay a reasonable price for reasonable quality. It's just the exorbitant price the RIAA charges for mostly crap that has people up in arms. But when people spend their time and money creating something, they deserve something for it. And if people enjoy and appreciate the work of others, they should be willing to show them by helping them out. |
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16-07-04, 06:36 PM | #6 |
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 10,024
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Welcome shepdog
Top of my head... · Searches should be wide, deep and scalable. i.e., if you’re looking for Metalica and other common fare “simple search” is OK but for obscurities a more powerful engine must be employed with default to simple so network traffic stays minimal. · Multi source downloading/swarming. · Decentralized, encrypted social functions, i.e. Chat, Rooms, VOIP etc. · Some sort of decentralized plugin BBS for users spending more time on the system. Usually the ones with the most inventory spend the most time on the network. Catering to their needs can have the effect of improving the entire community. A local BBS could end up becoming your P2P killer app. Think of how much time people already spend at their favorite boards. Getting any of that means huge numbers. · File back-ups are essential but something no P2P client addresses. Including it would make yours stand out. To that end seeing “1 click” back-ups from inside the download folder, multi-disc roll-over (automatically span the data across multiple discs) auto-name of disc and html generation of disc filenames/folder for archiving would all be plusses. If you’d like details I can show you programs that include some of these features. · IP masking: essential atm. As for money – I’d pay for a client but never for a subscription. Perhaps it’s a matter of perception but to me money for a client rewards the client creator and that's fine, whereas a monthly subscription seems to pay for content - ultimately ripping off artists, and that's unacceptable. - js. |
16-07-04, 07:26 PM | #7 |
Earthbound misfit
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Moses Lake, Washington
Posts: 2,563
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There's always the possibility of starting an open source project. Let others share the work load while you supervise. The program would still be yours but you wouldn't have to devote all your time doing what others could do for you. Even then there are still advertizing opportunities (as long as you don't use adware or spyware).
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16-07-04, 11:23 PM | #8 | |
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"Paying for content" suggests royalties. But who gets the royalties? Well, that depends on who owns the rights to the music. Any artist who is signed to a major label - the label most likely owns the rights, and therefore would receive the lion's share of the royalties. The artist in this case is being ripped off, but they are being ripped off by the label for whom they signed a contract... not the purchasers of the content. Many bands are either independant or own their own rights even though they are signed to a major label. Some big name artists own their own label. In these cases, the artists would receive all the royalties due from the purchase of their music. This would hardly be "ripping off the artist." |
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17-07-04, 05:02 PM | #9 | |
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getting something for free is just that, an insignificance, and with all the studies done so far no correlation has been established that conclusively proves free content reduces sales, studies they’ve had plenty of time to make. file sharing’s been going on for the better part of a decade. generations if you include home taping. several well respected studies go so far as to show a benefit to sales, with increases noted in certain circumstances. while where you stand on the issue has a lot to do with where your bread is buttered it's hard for anyone to tie an effect to sales one way or the other in a purely objective fashion. purchasing content is an entirely different matter. with each entertainment dollar spent one is removed from the general pool, leaving less for creators and producers. so if the pay model is the same one we’ve been seeing for years yeah it’s a rip-off of the creative community. if we’re looking at a new model that's great - but it’s news to me and to hollywood. for as long as p2ps've existed file sharing companies have tried to broker an arrangement but the riaa/mpaa has not allowed anything like revenue sharing to date and they have indicated no intention of allowing it anytime soon. besides competition if there’s anything they fear more than p2p i haven’t heard of it so i don’t see them doing anything except continuing their attempts to kill it. stupid yes and counterproductive definitely but there you go. it’s their loss. - js. |
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17-07-04, 07:10 PM | #10 |
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My understanding is that shepdog is interested in a method of compensating the artists themselfs in a reasonable way. This would certainly be a good idea... but how to impliment it?
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17-07-04, 08:30 PM | #11 | |
Earthbound misfit
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Moses Lake, Washington
Posts: 2,563
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Nah it seems more like he's looking for ways to compensate his own work on the program, allowing him to spend less time at his square job and more time coding. In that case Jack's suggestion makes more sense, a one time fee, no limited subscriptions.
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18-07-04, 11:44 AM | #12 |
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Unimatrix Zero, Area 25
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Suggestions...
1. Keep it simple and bloat free.
2. Very important to me, but if it's binary only and I have to use WINE in order to run it I'm not that interested. 3. Group and community features in a decentralised environment. This includes publishing/broadcasting features as in AudioGalaxy. Permanent identities (public keys) linked to rewards and improved social standing. The ability to use any web browser to browse through verified hash links hosted on the p2p network itself would be nice. 4. I probably wouldn't pay more than $10. I think anything more than that will have a negative psychological effect on almost anyone. $10 is also a reasonable price for foreigners, such as myself, to accept. However, I'm biased so if it's not free, as in libre, I won't pay for it. Asking for donations would work for me but I don't know how others would feel about it. 5. Don't PM me about it though. {P.S. do a search for TankGirl's posts on this forum, particularly her one on permanent identities and the Ultimate Grid. } |
18-07-04, 04:08 PM | #13 | ||||||||||||||||||
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Okay, where to start
Sorry guys,
I went out white water kayaking this weekend so I've haven't had a chance to respond. Got my ass kicked my a nasty hole, but that's another story. I'll try to answer everyones questions in the following post. Quote:
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The network is completely decentralized already. Well not 100% accurate right now but it will be so soon. The only portion that isn't decentralized is when registering with the network. The peer discovery servers as I have them set up now are not housed by a central server instead the functionality is provided by other peers with faster connections and more horsepower on their system. This is going to be replaced by a three pronged discovery system imploying IP Multicasting, UDP, and the already existant Peer Discovery servers. Multicast is a very powerful technology but a lot of people can't use Multicast so it will fall back to UDP. If UDP doesn't work it will fall back to contacting a Peer Discovery server. Encryption: The network as I have it designed is a completly anon and secure network. I also want the users to be able to use any encryption scheme they want. It will come with a default encryption algo, probably twofish, but you will have the ability to use anything you want, even custom developed routines. You will also have the ability to say what type of functionality you want encrypted, chats, searches, file listings, d/l's, etc. This will allow you to optimize the speed of the system. If you are finding that you searches are taking a while because of the encryption algo you are using, you will have the choice of changing the algo used or not using one at all. Also with the ability to specify encryption you can set up your own network of only those people that have the encryption engine that you are using. So if you want to specify something other than the standard encryption say a symetric type encryption that doesn't use public/private key pairs but instead uses a single key, you could set the system up to use it and pass that encryption/decryption 'plugin' out to your friends along with the key and have a private network. You would be able to choose if you wanted to process the network packets encrypted with the standard encryption or only those with the custom algo so you could really have a private peer network of only the people you wanted. At least this is one of themany possibilities on how it could be used. Chat Rooms: I am looking for suggestions in this area and I am also trying to build a flexible design here so that myself or third party developers can build custom functionality, such as chat, that can run on top of the P2P network protocol. Quote:
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Last edited by shepdog : 18-07-04 at 08:08 PM. |
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18-07-04, 11:33 PM | #14 |
Earthbound misfit
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Moses Lake, Washington
Posts: 2,563
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Hey, I like your attitude and I'm excited about the project. Does it have a name yet?
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19-07-04, 07:50 AM | #15 |
Rebel With A Cause
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: VA-USA
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Oh come on Mazer ...can't you do better than that? lol ...I always depend on your deep intelligence to make me look good. ...cause you know damn well they confuse us sometime. We make a good team ...you be Eienstein ...and I'll be Marilyn ....ps: if you noticed any spelling errors in the above...go fuck yourself.
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19-07-04, 07:55 AM | #16 |
Rebel With A Cause
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: VA-USA
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That was kinda crass ...I apologise.
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19-07-04, 11:47 AM | #17 |
Earthbound misfit
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Moses Lake, Washington
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Pfft, spelling errors? Who cares?
Not everyone here is familiar with you yet, we've had some new people join since you've been gone. Try not to make me look bad. JK |
19-07-04, 12:18 PM | #18 | ||||
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and no i wont .....no fun by yourself....well it is but not as much fun
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I am living my life in such a way that when my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh Shit, She's Awake!!" |
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19-07-04, 01:46 PM | #19 | |
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Mazer, uhmm, Maze.....
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As for the name, right now my wife is calling it my white whale ( Hey don't even go there. lol). I haven't picked a name for it yet but the networking concepts used by the app is based upon the thesis of Sean Blanchfield from Dublin University in which he called the concept 'Lattice'. As a matter of fact there is an open source project named 'The Lattice' that hasn't went anywhere that is also based upon the thesis. I don't like that name and wouldn't want to step on Sean's toes so I am looking for another name. The reason why the name is 'Lattice' is because that is how the network is organized. In a lattice like fashion. I am always open to suggestions for the name, but I will have something before it is released. As for the Maze -> Mazer convertation I don't know what to say except, okay. Thanks to everyone for all their input. The ball is rolling and we are going to have new P2P application by the end of the year, at least a first cut of one. John |
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19-07-04, 02:22 PM | #20 |
R.I.P napho 1-31-16
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Actually it could be either way.
And welcome to the forum Edit: Ooops.... didn't see it was Helly pointing out the spelling; I thought it was the thread starter and I was being sarcastic to the newbie. Sorry Helly, didn't mean to welcome you to the forum again.
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I love you napho and I will weep forever.......... Last edited by Dawn : 19-07-04 at 03:16 PM. |
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