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09-09-04, 03:09 AM | #1 | |||
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Russian School Massacre
Good idea Toy Boy
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/...ghlight=russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap1532994.html Quote:
----------------------------------------------- more interestingness http://oag.ru/views/ivashov_who.html Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- more with the NATO thing The attackers - described by the authorities as including Chechens, Ingush, ethnic Russians and some still-unidentified foreigners - seemed to follow a plan after they seized the school with precision and alacrity, forcing their hostages to help place explosives and build barricades that limited the options of Russian forces outside. The attackers wore NATO-issued camouflage. They carried gas masks, compasses and first-aid kits. They communicated with hand-held radios, and brought along two sentry dogs, as expertly trained as the attackers themselves, the officials said. All suggested detailed planning, including surveillance and possibly rehearsals, the officials said. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/in...pe/06plot.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- make sure you have pop up blocker for this site http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...cgi?read=55172 CHECHENS HELPED BY BRITAIN & UNITED STATES Chechen Aslan Maskhadov & Akhmed Zakayv Helped By Britain & United States NewsNight Hosted by Aaron Brown on CNN NewsNight 09/07/04, spokesperson Richard Boucher from the U.S. State Department admitted that the U.S. Government has been in contact with Chechen terrorists. When the State Department Boucher of the Bush Administration was saying this, he bowed his head (probably in shame). (pic below) A police officer stands in front of a slogan with a portrait of Akhmed Zakayev and reading 'Want to help? Extradite Zakayev!' during a mass rally against terrorism at the Kremlin in Moscow, Tuesday, Sept. 7, 2004. Akhmed Zakayev, an envoy for former separatist Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov, has been granted asylum in Britain and the Foreign Ministry said Russia will take new steps seeking the extradition of people it says are linked with terrorism. Tens of thousands of Russians massed outside the Kremlin for a rally against terrorism Tuesday. |
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09-09-04, 07:45 AM | #2 |
even the losers
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Putin knew.
Bush knew before Putin. Cheney was first to know. (he planned it) Kerry knew before he didn't know. (subject to change) |
09-09-04, 03:28 PM | #3 |
I took both pills.
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words kinda fail me when young kids, who have no part in the ordeal in the chechen republic, are being held hostage. terrorist taking potshots at them while they are trying to flee from the scene. I heard ( i can't verify it ) that one of them was shot in the back 46 times
I wonder what drives people to such an act without a doubt on my mind they had to be exposed to serious violence themselves. Still FFS the are/were kids. I am not a supporter for the death penalty but boy this comes bloody close Antoher sad day for humanity entire
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09-09-04, 07:25 PM | #4 | |
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- js. |
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09-09-04, 07:49 PM | #5 | ||
Keebeck Canuck
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ever think of those poor saps in the third world, they die everyday and need no terrorist of to do so, they only need big power corp to do the job |
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10-09-04, 04:54 AM | #6 | |
I took both pills.
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miss silver, wouldn't you agree with me that it is hard to justify any war? The war in vietnam was in a different time, when the cold war was at a peak (hardly justifiable i know) but the world political situation was a different one than the one we are having right now. yes i have thought about those poor saps in the third world and i was under the impression that those kids in dafour are not only killed for the colour of their skin but that the religious militia responsible for those attacks are backed by the army of the current regime. To invade the country in question would be nothing more than another vietnam, yugoslavia or iraq for it is still an internal/civil '''''war''''' within a souvereign state I agree jack, however i don't think you would say the same thing when a group of iraqis would hijack a U.S. high school, blowing more than 100 American kids to smithereens because they had to suffer MORE than 10 years of sanctions against their fellow country men while being bombed from time to time throughout those years. i think if we take a hard and long look at the situation during those years i think we come to see a death toll higher than the amount of victims that have fallen in this war so far. In our name by the way coz those sanctions were implemented (<-- did i spell that right?) by the united nations
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10-09-04, 07:36 AM | #7 |
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I wish I knew the truth.
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10-09-04, 08:17 AM | #8 |
even the losers
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interested in the truth mal?
imho you'll find many truths in the book Why Terrorism Works by Alan Dershowitz.
Book Description The greatest danger facing the world today, says Alan M. Dershowitz, comes from religiously inspired, state sponsored terrorist groups that seek to develop weapons of mass destruction for use against civilian targets. In his newest book, Dershowitz argues passionately and persuasively that global terrorism is a phenomenon largely of our own making and that we must and can take steps to reduce the frequency and severity of terrorist acts. Analyzing recent acts of terrorism and our reaction to them, Dershowitz explains that terrorism is successful when the international community gives in to the demands of terrorists—or even tries to understand and eliminate the "root causes" of terrorism. He discusses extreme approaches to wiping out international terrorism that would work if we were not constrained by legal, moral, and humanitarian considerations. And then, given that we do operate under such constraints, he offers a series of proposals that would effectively reduce the frequency and severity of international terrorism by striking a balance between security and liberty. |
10-09-04, 08:50 AM | #9 |
flippin 'em off
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You can probably get the same info by searching "fourth generation warfare".
It's been discussed for some years now and it's suprising the U.S. isn't applying the methods required more often, mostly intense propaganda warfare. They're doing better at accepting civilian deaths to get at the enemy though, and you don't hear as much squealing that "were becoming terrorists ourselves". Anyone who thinks a bleeding heart liberal can win this kind of war is an enemy asset. |
10-09-04, 08:53 AM | #10 | |||
Keebeck Canuck
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DD Just did a research on the peep you mentionned above. forgot to mentionned a few things Quote:
Hey, wasn't it this peep who defended O.J. Simpson? Wouldn't touch his stuff with a 20 feet pole, more about this sadistic puppy below... Quote:
hummm |
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10-09-04, 11:39 AM | #11 |
even the losers
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miss silver, when i recommended this book to malvachat, i did so with the hope that he will take the time and effort to actually read the book, learn something new perhaps, and when finished, decide for himself whether or not he agrees or disagrees with some or all of the premises set forth in the book.
i don't know about you, but before reading any serious book i try to keep an open mind, putting aside any predjudices i may have formed beforehand about the author or the opinions of someone reviewing and critiquing it. if going to a web site and reading what someone else thinks is good enough for you, then i believe 'you can do better'. (paraphrasing my current favorite politician) as for alan dershowitz, if all you know about him is that he defended o.j. simpson, perhaps you could go here , where you might be surprised to find you have a lot more in common with him than you think. btw, i believe a criminal defense attorney is obligated to do his best to get the defendant acquitted, what he personally believes about his client's guilt or innocence is irrelevant. |
10-09-04, 01:59 PM | #12 |
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Just wanted to post a link here.....
This is a non-commercial Web site that provides a list of terrorist attacks committed by determined Muslims since 9/11/01, the day that planes were hijacked and flown into buildings killing thousands of innocent people. We do not believe in stereotyping individuals of any religion, particularly one as diverse as Islam, but the next time you hear someone refer to this ideology as "The Religion of Peace", direct them to this site and explain that every person on this list lost their life or was maimed by individuals vocally inspired by this religion. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/default.htm
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10-09-04, 11:51 PM | #13 | ||
Keebeck Canuck
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DD
I stay by my word, wouldn't touch the book with a 20 foot pole. Not because of my convictions but because of what the book represent, deal with the terrorists more violently than we do right now. The point is, how can one understand terrorisim or even understand it's roots if one cannot see what is behind it or causing it, it's all cause and effects. The first article i posted is by Alan Dershowitz, a bit of his book was about. I always try to keep an open mind but also not to be swindle by such talks about how to deal with those terrorists. Saw a doco tonight called "Death in Gaza", and i've never seen the palestinian side this closely before, it was done through 3 kids eyes, about what they thought and felt and their entourage, how they influenced them. They are about 10 to 12 years old and they already know how to make hand grenades and know how to make them blow to sharpnels, that was some heavy shit. They are already, ready do die for their country, by blowing themselves up as last recourse to strike back. If you ever see it on HBO, it's one of their production, it's really worth the watch to even begin to understand terrorisim. In that doco, we follow the lives of 3 distinct boy who have the same thing in common, a deep rooted hatred toward the jewish state. So imo, it doesn't help that those kids harbour such a deep loathing and hatred toward them since they are young + the propaganda written on walls on how to be a martyr will send you directly to heaven with the blessings of celestials virgins promissed by jhiad activists... each of them have lost close family and relatives to armed jewish settlers which help to fuel their hatrid even more. They just bloody hate them and even at the age of five, some palestinian kids wish they'd blow up their first... Just to say, it really got me scared and heartbroken to see this type of fanatic fervor in such youg eyes. So where to even begin not to understand why there is terrorisim. I also found that one cannot classify terrorisim in a whole, one type of terrorisim is for demands, like we've recently seen with those 2 french journalists, they wanted too make a polititcal statement about girls not being able to wear the veil at school. The second type is just plain and total disreguard for life, like we've seen in russia. What i've also notice about the second type is that, it's mostly done to have independence. It's a damn wrong way to achive it, violence always generate more violence. Dealing with the terrorists more violently will only generate more terrorists. In the doco, we also see armed masked palestinians militant which one of the boy already work for and aspire to become like them. One of the militant said that if they were to send him with a bomb to blow up himself in the jewish state, there would be another 1000 boys ready to replace him. Also discovered an interesting fact, which I didn't know of Quote:
So why shoot at them, to me, it looks like a bunch of armed terrorists. Also read the web page you referred me to, to keep an open mind. It didn't help much. from the page Quote:
BTW, even didn't remember his name or that he defended O.J. but finding that out today, it doesn't surprise me. |
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11-09-04, 12:26 AM | #14 | |
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that could influence 100's of young followers to imitate locking them up for the rest of their lives and subjecting them to the occasional torture(getting escorted to a starbucks for coffee ..ect j/k) would probably have the same effect in the long run.. i agree that when you see people maliciously kill kids like that,the first thing you think is.. death is the best thing for them... its safe to say that soft targets killed for political reasons and ones killed by your average nutcase screwed up by western society are equaly deserving of some sort of justice..but no justice ever adresses the root causes of the extreme actions of these a55holes..it only ever serves to pluck them out of the system .... its very similar to how we deal with disease |
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11-09-04, 05:00 AM | #15 |
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Well,Well,Well.
A bit of a serious debate.
Oh goody goody. I myself don't know what to believe anymore. As reading for up on a subject,yes I'll read anything. It won't matter to me what a person has done I'll still listen to what he/she has to say. Unfortunately in the real world. If a guy/gal is a Pratt, I can't give much credence to what they say. I do know one thing. Giving in to terrorism in any way doesn't work. Just like blackmail. Or as I like to think the school bully. I was always taught never give in to bully's. (Take note America) My politics are confusing. I like to think of myself as a bit of a socialist. Trade union man all my life. But as far as anti social behaviour goes, and things like terrorism. (Anybody who knows me understands my next statement) KILL THE BASTARDS.
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11-09-04, 09:06 PM | #16 |
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Well I ain't shit at debates but I do know a few things:
If Regan hadn't funded the Afghan rebels just to spite the hell out of our supposed enemies the Soviets we wouldn't have had the Taliban. That was the first mistake. And if that dumbassed weepy Christian Carter had've acted like he had some balls it would have ended with him. But NO! He had to play the great warrior for Jesus and stir the pot some more. We need more good God-fearing Christians to lead us back to the Dark Ages. That was the second mistake. Then along comes the mindless figurehead Regan with the diabolical Bush family behind him pulling the strings, who are all congenitally sociopathic criminals who'll jump into bed with anybody for a buck. This world-class disgrace cook up a plan to steal by proxy the oil of Iraq by slant drilling Iraq's oil fields by their lackeys in Kuwait. That was the third mistake. And just to show their total disregard for humanity they con bought-and-paided-for lackey Hussein into giving them a pretext to attack him, to steal his oil too of course. Now Shrub has a real job so daddy won't have to fly his coke in special and take up space on the planes that could be better used for WMD's for our new lackeys in central and south America to murder anybody with even a whiff of leftism in their heart. That was mistakes 4, 5, and six. And still the "Chosen people" slumber. And now we have another self-proclaimed True Believer Child of God, washed in the blood and gore of Jesus, trying to con the same Afghans with a massive pipeline deal which, low and behold, was basically an outright theft of Caspian natural gas. Was it hard to get the stinch out of the ol' ranch after your boyz left Shrub? Hey, just pay off a few more right-wing dictators, what difference does it make? Hell they'll sell out their own people and the World Bank will handle all the zeros. We might even make good christians out of them. Amen! Let Capitalism rule! And as if to add irony upon irony your basic pickup truck worshipping shit faced American scratches his head and wonders why a billion people steeped in the philosophy of blood feud and revenge is after his ass. This country needs an enema. Unfortunately it's hooked on political junk food so it'll just fill up with shit till it explodes. What has all this got to do with the Russian's? As usual, they're just victims of our psychopathic greed and brinksmanship. It could come any day.
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12-09-04, 05:13 AM | #17 |
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to me the russian terror attacks are a symptom of their confilct
like israel like the US in iraq its people fighting back with the only means left to them.. (not condoning these disgusting acts wich is a waste of human life..but just trying look at the root causes) yet another case of poor misplaced people fighting well funded and equiped armies... what the war on terror really tries to do is tie all these different conflicts together..and make a nice sellable package and to lock in certain international policies 3years into it ..and nothing but attempts to escalate it and deceptivly combine 3(or more) different conflicts into one wich effects everyone in the west killing kids and innocent civilians is wrong i dont want to make light of that.. but there is an alarming pattern to all this.. not to mention oil and pipeline routes almost figures into all of this.. |
12-09-04, 10:14 AM | #18 | |
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12-09-04, 10:22 AM | #19 | |
my name is Ranking Fullstop
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12-09-04, 10:49 AM | #20 | |
I took both pills.
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I know you don't represent all Americans .... but for some reason you ( the american people) seem to think your dead are more important or at least that is how we see it. hence the several threads about Comlubine and just one (so far) about Beslan second and please allow me to state the obvious, i think it is easeir to relate to your fellow country men than to some poor slob thousands of miles away
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