[vernarial]

Originally Posted by albed

Again with the "we". I feel safe in assuming that "you" are not in Iraq and know for certain that I am not and can't help but think that you are a complete imbecile for not comprehending even that simple fact. And there's no sense in telling a complete imbecile anything.

No but my brother and 2 of my close cousins are in Iraq. I'm sorry if I over generalised. I mean military personel of the USA and of course citizens of Iraq. Military personel to be specific. I mean we as in Everyone in the USA because we can only blame it on ourselves for allowing it to happen. I am included. I was all for the war when it began, but I can admit my mistakes. I trusted my leaders and they lied to me.

Whether you think I am an imbecile or not is up to you. And yet you continue to answer with only smart assed(well maybe dumb assed) comments to my inquiries. At least Necrodancer takes the time to refute my argument and maybe change my opinion.
These are in response to Necrodancers answer to my questions.

On question 1 I don't believe Bush or anything he says, but I will look into it more.

On question 2 I would have to disagree. Are you telling me that they didn't lie?

On question 3 I have heard of several instances where the "sneak and peek" tactics have been used against regular american citizens. Here is an old, but pertinent article about the subject. http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030...0549-8745r.htm
Pretty much they can come into your house and take any info without letting anyone know. They can also get info from others concerning you(or I) and if they tell you(or I) that the government is looking up on you(or I) they can be charged and imprisoned. That is the truth. Read the Patriot Act.

#4. Look at the FBI screwing with Martin Luther King. Yeah, that was a long time ago, but do you really think they have changed all that much? PETA is on the list of domestic terrorists. That is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/dom...ism/index.html

#5

Sure. Barking dogs and loud music are not torture and should never be classified as such. A guy in NY can be picked up for selling a dime bag, the police can yell in his face and tell him he's going to jail, and they are perfectly within the law in doing so. If that was done to an enemy combatant that would be termed torture. Something is obviously wrong there and needed to be fixed.

I agree. But we don't need to rule out the Geneva Convention. We should still treat other humans in a humane way. How we would like our brothers in arms to be treated in a war.

#6

Because foreign nations (read: EUROPE) are pussified appeasement specialists and deem harsh words yelled at a detainee to be cruel and unusual torture.

Well that is your point of view. I personally think that pre-emptive war is tantamount to a war crime. It is attacking someone without provocation. Now I admit that before the war with Iraq I was a proponent. I thought of it as seeing a bully coming at you with a knife. You don't wait for the bully to stab you. You defend yourself. Now I see the error of my ways(or the lies of the politicians). It could be like telling your kid on the playground to kick a smaller kids butt because you think that kid might grow up to be a bigger kid and a bigger bully.
I see the lies I was told by my government to excuse the war. I wasn't told the truth. I will give any yahoo off the street a chance, but if he lies to me(and gets a bunch of my compatriots killed) I have a hard time believing anything they say. Especially when it seems they are trying to cover their tracks. I can see why the Europeans or any others would want to try Bush or his cronies in a court of law. You don't seriously think they added the new Torture immunity because they were worried about Europe do you? I'm sure Bush could live comfortably in Crawford for the rest of his days.

OK I'm done for now.