[shepdog]

Sorry guys,
I went out white water kayaking this weekend so I've haven't had a chance to respond. Got my ass kicked my a nasty hole, but that's another story.
I'll try to answer everyones questions in the following post.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

Welcome shepdog

Thanks Jack

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· Searches should be wide, deep and scalable. i.e., if you’re looking for Metalica and other common fare “simple search” is OK but for obscurities a more powerful engine must be employed with default to simple so network traffic stays minimal.

The new protocol I am developing will have sophisticated searchs. The ability to search on ID3V1 and V2 tags, some data matching of the actual content of the file. What I mean by this is that I've seen MP3's tagged totally differently but the conent of the file be exactly the same. Same bit rate, same length, same content. A lot of applications fail to recognize these as the same files. I want to. I also want to take this a step further as well. You might have a file that is sampled at a given rate and you want to finish d/l the file. I want to see what I can do about re-encoding on the fly to desired bitrate. What sort of advanced search features are you speaking of? I am wide open to suggestions. I also agree that the protocol must do everything it can to keep network traffic to a minimum. I am doing this. Most of the control packets being sent around the network are well less than 100 bytes. 75% are less than 50 bytes.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· Multi source downloading/swarming.

That is manditory in my current design. I am even trying to build in the ability to d/l peices of the same file from different souces as you see some other clients do. But I also am trying to give the user the ability to listen to these fragments as they are d/l'ed so they can identify if the song is in fact the one they want. I don't know of any other p2p that does that. It will also support manual/autoresuming.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· Decentralized, encrypted social functions, i.e. Chat, Rooms, VOIP etc.

Decentralization:
The network is completely decentralized already. Well not 100% accurate right now but it will be so soon. The only portion that isn't decentralized is when registering with the network. The peer discovery servers as I have them set up now are not housed by a central server instead the functionality is provided by other peers with faster connections and more horsepower on their system. This is going to be replaced by a three pronged discovery system imploying IP Multicasting, UDP, and the already existant Peer Discovery servers. Multicast is a very powerful technology but a lot of people can't use Multicast so it will fall back to UDP. If UDP doesn't work it will fall back to contacting a Peer Discovery server.

Encryption:
The network as I have it designed is a completly anon and secure network. I also want the users to be able to use any encryption scheme they want. It will come with a default encryption algo, probably twofish, but you will have the ability to use anything you want, even custom developed routines. You will also have the ability to say what type of functionality you want encrypted, chats, searches, file listings, d/l's, etc. This will allow you to optimize the speed of the system. If you are finding that you searches are taking a while because of the encryption algo you are using, you will have the choice of changing the algo used or not using one at all. Also with the ability to specify encryption you can set up your own network of only those people that have the encryption engine that you are using. So if you want to specify something other than the standard encryption say a symetric type encryption that doesn't use public/private key pairs but instead uses a single key, you could set the system up to use it and pass that encryption/decryption 'plugin' out to your friends along with the key and have a private network. You would be able to choose if you wanted to process the network packets encrypted with the standard encryption or only those with the custom algo so you could really have a private peer network of only the people you wanted. At least this is one of themany possibilities on how it could be used.

Chat Rooms:
I am looking for suggestions in this area and I am also trying to build a flexible design here so that myself or third party developers can build custom functionality, such as chat, that can run on top of the P2P network protocol.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· Some sort of decentralized plugin BBS for users spending more time on the system. Usually the ones with the most inventory spend the most time on the network. Catering to their needs can have the effect of improving the entire community. A local BBS could end up becoming your P2P killer app. Think of how much time people already spend at their favorite boards. Getting any of that means huge numbers.

See my comment about Chats in the above answer. I definetly agree that regular users need features that will make their experience in such an app more compelling. I am looking at several different BBS/Chat type functionalities. Things such as IRC, MSN-like, as well as the typical forum type functionality. Could you expand on what you were thinking or point me to some examples of what you were thinking? It would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· File back-ups are essential but something no P2P client addresses. Including it would make yours stand out. To that end seeing '1 click' back-ups from inside the download folder, multi-disc roll-over (automatically span the data across multiple discs) auto-name of disc and html generation of disc filenames/folder for archiving would all be plusses. If you’d like details I can show you programs that include some of these features.

Good suggestion. I had not thought about this possibility. Very good idea and I would appreciate you pointing out the apps you were talking about.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

· IP masking: essential atm.

Jack, the way the system is designed it's first driving factor is anonymity. The 'only' way that someone could forsure pin a user down would be to 'surround' it with systems they owned. This would not be possible because the network organizes the way clients are connected without the ability of users to influence that organization. If you want more info on how the network is designed to make the above statement clear, feel free to contact me.

Originally Posted by JackSpratts

As for money - I’d pay for a client but never for a subscription. Perhaps it’s a matter of perception but to me money for a client rewards the client creator and that's fine, whereas a monthly subscription seems to pay for content - ultimately ripping off artists, and that's unacceptable.

I am thinking of several different things here. I am 'NOT' looking to make just another P2P application. I am looking to make something not totally different in functionality than the current crop but with a much broader reach. I would like to avoid someone paying for the application either in a subscription or a one time pay if I could. Looking back at the comments made before I really see a need for something totally outside of the current box of thinking. I would like to figure out a new type of tool that can be used to help independant/underground/unsigned artist to take the control of the distribution and promotion of their music into their own hands and out of the hands of the recording industry. The current state of affairs for both artists and consumers is mainly a result of the recording industies actions. It's time for a change and for the middle man to quit taking the majority of the profit revenue. I also want to see the consumer given the opportunity to make his voice heard when it comes to what type of music they prefer instead of leaving that control in the recording industries hands such as it is today. Today they control this by signing who 'they' think the consumers will like. The consumer's only voice is only heard after the recording industry has given an artist their blessing by a signed contract. I don't want to rip off artist, I want to give them the ability to take their career into their hands. I'd like to hear everyones comments on this.

Originally Posted by Mazer

There's always the possibility of starting an open source project. Let others share the work load while you supervise. The program would still be yours but you wouldn't have to devote all your time doing what others could do for you. Even then there are still advertizing opportunities (as long as you don't use adware or spyware).

Mazer due to the types of license used in OpenSource such as the GPL, MIT and several others it would make basing a company based around it very difficult. I can see several of the configurable modules of the app being open sourced but not the entire thing.

Originally Posted by Headbanger

My understanding is that shepdog is interested in a method of compensating the artists themselfs in a reasonable way. This would certainly be a good idea... but how to impliment it?

You are correct. See the comment above. I would like to hear everyones ideas about this.

Originally Posted by Mazer

Nah it seems more like he's looking for ways to compensate his own work on the program, allowing him to spend less time at his square job and more time coding. In that case Jack's suggestion makes more sense, a one time fee, no limited subscriptions.

Mazer, I am looking for a way in which the artists involved can control their destiny in how they market and distribute and the consumer can have a voice in who is the most deserving of the content creators of their money.

Originally Posted by Mazer

Shep, the price you charge, if you choose to do so, will depend on the program's popularity, and thus the amount of content that's available. To do that you want to keep the price very low to attract the largest number of people. There are some who won't pay anything, and there are some who would pay up to $15 or maybe even $20. I'd suggest keeping the price below $5, perhaps as low as $.99. Ship the program with a shareware licence, a 15 day free trial with full program functionality, at the end of which registration would be required, and hook your users that way. If your network builds a reputation for high quality files, short queues, and a lot of variety then you'll attract every kind of p2p user, even the ones reluctant to pay for it will eventually join in. One dollar may seem kinda low, but imagine if five or ten thousand people joined your network...

I was actually thinking of ways to the users not to have to pay for the application outright or a subscription. I can see the possibility of others developing things that they feel they want to charge for, more power too them if the users or content providers are willing to pay for it, great. But I would like to have it so that if you just wanted to a workable system you would have one provided by the base functionality.

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

1. Keep it simple and bloat free.

Dave, see post above. I want to keep the base protocol and application as simple as possible but provide an architecture in which you can add functionality.

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

2. Very important to me, but if it's binary only and I have to use WINE in order to run it I'm not that interested.

No you will not have to use wine. The UI will be seperated from the networking code so a UI for whatever OS you may want to run it on can be provided. Even several ui's for the same os if someone wants to develop their own.

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

3. Group and community features in a decentralised environment. This includes publishing/broadcasting features as in AudioGalaxy. Permanent identities (public keys) linked to rewards and improved social standing. The ability to use any web browser to browse through verified hash links hosted on the p2p network itself would be nice.

Permanant Identities. I have been thinking on how to do this for a while and I think that I have it figured out.

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

4. I probably wouldn't pay more than $10. I think anything more than that will have a negative psychological effect on almost anyone. $10 is also a reasonable price for foreigners, such as myself, to accept. However, I'm biased so if it's not free, as in libre, I won't pay for it. Asking for donations would work for me but I don't know how others would feel about it.

I totally agree. The pain threshold for payment on such a system is very low. See my comments above about the direction I would like to take. What do you think?

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

5. Don't PM me about it though.

I'm not much on PM'ing. Don't worry, it won't happen. I would like for this discussion to be in an open environment, because you guys will be the users and will benifit from that conversation.

Originally Posted by SA_Dave

{P.S. do a search for TankGirl's posts on this forum, particularly her one on permanent identities and the Ultimate Grid. }

Thanks, I'm looking it up now.