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Old 04-03-02, 05:37 PM   #1
Smoketoomuch
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hungary
Posts: 906
Default Danse Macabre of Fasttrack - nominee for longest post competition (sorry)

I thought and thought about Fasttrack and Morpheus, and here is what I came up with. Some points and statements here are open for debate, I would like to see what do you think about these problems.

Ok, here is a very promising statement from CEO.
„Lastly, we want to address some of the misinformation we've seen recently. There have been many comments that we caused these problems intentionally. Let me assure you that we would NEVER treat the Morpheus users in this fashion. Others have said we would re-launch with a paid subscription model, again, not true. Our commitment is to always provide you a free version of the Morpheus software product. Thanks again for making Morpheus the most widely downloaded p2p product in the world. We are hard at work to provide you with the products you have come to expect from our company. From our perspective p2p means people to people.”

Paid subscription model not true, but notice that there will alwayb >a< free version of Morph. No specific detail again on that one, and this can mean various things:
a) there will be a subscritption modell also, which means that must be a lot better then the free version – ergo free version will be a stripped down version or
b) there won’t be subscription, only licence fee that removes adds – it seems to me very unlikely – a small licence fee is agreeable to pay for no ad, but subsciption is not, and is agreeable only if the prog knows a lot more then the free version.

But then, my problems are much older then that. First and foremost, I saw not many posts about this, but the fact is, that connected to 450000 users sharing 642313 files or whatever is simply misleading. You are never connected to that many users. U are connected to a small segment of Fasttrack network, and multiple searches for the same stuff won’t let you out from that segment. As borgdrone1of2 (I hope it was him, if you remember differently, please correct me) said on old forum> there is a good chance you download from someone from another continent (which is true, since most people I download from is from US) but a very small chance that you would be able to see the shared files of the guy living across the street. Which means that from our (the user’s) point of view the “connectedness” (sorry) was never as good as many would like to think (or would like us to think). My estimate is, based on availability (music, soft, vids), and even taking into consideration the leech problem, which is quite serious on fasttrack, the fasttrack network you are actually connected to is no bigger then winmx connected to frontcode and 2-3 high capacity (like 10000 users or above) network – but if you disregard leeches, and base your estimate only on availability, then the size roughly equals winmx connected just to the frontcode server.

Technology

Expectations flew high back in november/december, when morph 2.0 was announced. Didn’t think of it then, but since everything that technologically is considered advanced (file resume, auto search, multiple source download) was already there. I honestly don’t know what we expected of new version back then. Leech control was a priority issue, but that is not a big step forward technologically speaking. The other expectation was gnutella. This still poses a problem for me. If you search back on Zeropaid for old articles, you can see that developers of Gnutella clients are not always on friendly terms, they want to make as much money as they can (exept a few like XoloX) – so the question is: what is their gain. This trails several question, and I hope you can answer some.
First, if Streamcast makes a new client that can use both fasttrack and gnutella network resources than the first problem is:
I didn’t see announcment from current gnutella client developers that promise access to Fasttrack network in there new version. This means, that if this is not a two way street, then those using new morph (if it does what it promises) become virtually leeches of gnutella client users. This means, that one has to be either stupid or fanatically attached to a LimeWire or XoloX to keep using it, but the majority will use new client from MusicCity. This would mean that for Bearshare, Limewire, whatever, its over. But this is hardly believable – aren’t they independent companies that keep their own interests in their sight? IF it would be a two way street, what would motivate one to use MC product, especially if it would be a stripped down free version, where s/he can use Limewire or any other next generation gnutella client? So what will happen to independent (independent from MC) gnutella client developers? If two way street: will they merge in one megacompany with MC or what? If not, how MC paid service would be successful?

Just as a reminder: only such drastic changes would warrant a version change from 1.3.3 to 2.0, that is to say, incorporation of gnutella network or a radically new technology, that would be as great jump as the switch from single source to multiple source download capability. If there is such technology, then what would it be? Some clue might be gained from Napho’s thread about Rebol > http://www.napsterites.net/undergrou...&threadid=9606

But then how would that new techno look like from our point of view. As far as technology goes, the most advanced p2p techno is used by eDonkey. The only addition to multiple source download is the ability to download incomplete parts, which is done by the donkey, and is a huge advantage. 80% of a large mov. I got from people who are still in the process of downloading is. At the end of the post you see an example for that. You see multiple sources for same file, black meaning in the colored bar the parts that a particular user has. For example if there are 3 people having full stuff, all that download that particular file from them is a source for you. It was funny to see once that there was someone with whom we got the file at the same time. Sometimes he (or she) managed to download a part, transfer immediately began from his puter till it was on „no needed parts” then when I got some parts from someone else, he downloaded those, then me again when he got new parts, and so and so. (oh, the pic is a freshly started donkey with few sources, but it should suffice – u can see – ok, ok, with terrible slow speed – but I’m actually downloading from someone who doesn’t have the complete file). You may have noticed that I became a big fan of donkey, but my only point here is to see which is the most advanced p2p prog today – that has something more in addition to multiple source dl, and the donkey is one – and excellent leech control, which, actually can’t be called forced sharing either, since it is a technology (that is the file u are downloading can be downloaded from u) that is simply makes file sharing more effective.

My point is, that except incorporation of another network (that is making it bigger) only technological improvements like adding an ability similar to donkey warrants a new version. I don’t say that only useful technology is improvement, or rather, I don’t mean useful in a narrow sense. That is to say, donkey needs servers – its decentralized, since you can download server version and make a server, but technologically it is more advanced if you don’t need a server at all (btw, Swamp is rumored to working on a new network that needs servers no more, but no one knows how he wants to do it…), since it grants a protection against lawsuits as you can claim there is nothing you can shut down. We just witnessed the collapse of this myth – it is not only possible to shut down fasttrack, but it is also possible to do it selectively, moreover, it is something that can be used by RIAA as well, since it works like a virus (you just need the ability to spread false supernode lists on the network). For further details on this read>http://www.zeropaid.com/news/article.../03012002b.php Its a long article, but I recommend everyone to read it, especially since the newest news on ZP is that it seems to be confirmed…(„On February 28, 2002 an anonymous post on Zeropaid set in motion a HUGE amount of discussion and speculation as to what had exactly happened between Morpheus and KaZaA. The post, seeming to come directly from an episode of the X-files, outlined a "paper" trail to a mysterious company called Sharman Networks. There were good guys and bad guys, back room deals alluded to with a previously UNMENTIONED company called Brilliant Digital, the plot definitely thickened. While some readers scoffed at the perceived paranoia, other followed the trail. Jorge, a regular contributor, continued the framing of the issue and let Zeropaid members see that maybe there was something sneaky going on in the world of P2P.”)

Something sneaky… Well, just think of what I wrote about gnutella/morpheus compatibility…


Huh. At the end of this extremely long winded post, I could continue but I’m tired of it. There are a lot of unanswered questions, please let me know if you have any… (I know Snow Man has a few). I have a few also (ok, I can’t stop this, sorry…). One is about Dat format – those who know more about it (AYB for instance) is there a way to hash those dat files in a way to make parts of it intelligible for the network? If not, and it needs an entirely different technology, then MC can’t implement a feature like that of the donkey except if they shut out every client using the old dat format. Another is concerned with privacy: was I correct (I don’t know, I’m quite a lamer in this respect) when I assumed reading AYBs attachment that it contains the IP addresses of those who had those files? Even if donkey is not that decentralized, still it has no such datas in their incomplete downloads. Ok, before I go „hey old Morpheus comrades, I think its time to move on onto something new and based on our high expectations, donkey is the way”, I shall finish this post, waiting for tons of ideas and questions I am too tired to ask (but this whole issue has the nature of a fractal, an endless vertigo of questions, hence the long post). Ok, I’m finished. For now. Please continue.

Best Wishes

ps. - no spell check, no check at all - terribly sorry - s2m in big hurry and writing like in frenzy.
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Last edited by Smoketoomuch : 04-03-02 at 06:14 PM.
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