P2P-Zone - IMO, Israel is totally justified.....

P2P-Zone (http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/index.php)

- Political Asylum (http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/forumdisplay.php?f=34)

- - IMO, Israel is totally justified..... (http://www.p2p-zone.com/underground/showthread.php?t=22919)

IMO, Israel is totally justified.....

in destroying Hezbolla, after all, Hezbolla invades, attacks and promotes Israels total destruction and obiliteration. You know we wouldn't stand for that here in the U.S., but the rest of the world (read Europe) condemns Israel without hardly any condemnation against the blatantly terrorist group Hezbolla.

Israel deserves to live in peace and tranquility.

Terrorists deserve no mercy, I salute Israel for finally taking the initative, but I just wonder what took them so long.........?????

P.S. war is Hell, children will always die, so get over it already. Most likely those children would grow up to become the next-gen terrorists anyways.......

Hezbolla has long used children as human shields anyway and it's necessary to kill them to kill the terrorists; just like those UN observers.

Once the nukes start flying this will all seem like the good old days.

what nukes?

btw pisser, the two israeli soldiers were in lebanon when they got taken prisoner.

Quote:

On a table facing his desk, Ehud Olmert keeps photographs of three Israeli soldiers whose capture by Islamic militants in Gaza and Lebanon sparked the latest Mideast crisis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...989817,00.html

to find out what the real prolem is

try googling ' balfour declaration ' ' rothschild '

and ' ben gurion ' the original terrorist

its all about the money

Quote:

Originally Posted by floydian slip

btw pisser, the two israeli soldiers were in lebanon when they got taken prisoner.

This makes little difference since it was Hezbollah that detained them, not the government of Lebanon. Maps may still show the reigion just north of Israel as being part of Lebanon, but in reality that reigion is ruled by anarchy, not the government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

in destroying Hezbolla, after all, Hezbolla invades, attacks and promotes Israels total destruction and obiliteration.

Ok, but how is this destroying them? Hezbolla was a response to Isaeli forces in Lebenon back in the what, early 80s?

How is another invasion and occupation by UN forces going to be any different this time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

There is a major difference between Kidnapped and Captured. The media played the card kidnapped since it sent sympathy toward Israel when they could have been truthful, objective about the situation. By using the word Kidnap, it led the population to believe it was Hezbollah that crossed the border to make them prisonners, if the media would have used the word Capture, the message would have been very different, meaning those 2 birds shouldn't have crossed Lebanon border in the first place, they did it and got Captured.

What puzzles me most is the silence of Israel about this whole situation. How come those 2 soldiers decided to cross the Lebanon border? Who sent them there in the first place? Soldiers follow orders, someone must have told them to cross the border but for what purpuse since Israel knows very well the southern border is Hizbollah & PLO country.

Beside, it's not like Israel never had terrorists organisations. Irgun, Lehi and Haganah are good examples of it and they did do a lot of dammage but strangely enough, we never hear or heard of them unless one google for informations.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/haganah.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tory/lehi.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ory/irgun.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ry/resist.html

Quote:

The Jewish Resistance Movement

At the end of World War II, when it became clear that the British government had no intention of altering its anti-Zionist policy, the yishuv organized the Jewish Resistance Movement, which was run by the Haganah in cooperation with Etzel and Lehi.

The movement carried out its first operation on October 1945, when a Palmach unit attacked the Atlit internment camp and liberated the 208 “illegal” immigrants held there. In November 1945, the Movement showed its strength by launching a major attack on railroads all over the country and sinking several coastal patrol launches. In the following months, the Movement carried out attacks upon British police posts, coast guard stations, radar installations and air-fields.

In June 1946, the Jewish Resistance Movement blew up the bridges linking Palestine with neighboring states. The British authorities reacted to this attack on June 29, 1946 (“Black Saturday”), by arresting the members of the Jewish Agency Executive. Military forces conducted searches for arms caches in the settlements and thousands of people were arrested. The Jewish Agency ordered a halt in the armed operations against the British, but Etzel and Lehi refused to comply. In July 1946, Etzel blew up the central government offices at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. 80 people were killed — government officials and civilians, Britons, Jews and Arabs. After this operation, condemned outright by the Jewish Agency and by the Haganah, the Jewish Resistance Movement ceased to exist.

What is mind blowing is what next became of these 3 terrorists group, the quotes comes from the first 3 links

Quote:

...When the Hebrew Resistance Movement was founded in November 1945, Lehi joined it, along with the Haganah and Etzel. Lehi carried out several operations as part of the movement, the largest of which was the bombing of the Haifa railroad workshops in June 1946, in which 11 Lehi members were killed. After the Hebrew Resistance Movement broke up following Etzel's bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on July 22, 1946, Lehi continued with its harassment and attrition policy.

In 1947, Lehi decided to concentrate its activities in Jerusalem so as to prevent implementation of the partition plan and internationalization of Jerusalem.

When the IDF was established on May 31, 1948, Lehi was disbanded and its members enlisted in the IDF. Only in Jerusalem did Lehi remain an independent organization, arguing that at the time of the proclamation of independence the city's fate had not yet been determined. On September 17, 1948, Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, a UN mediator, was assassinated in Jerusalem, and Lehi members were suspected. The government outlawed the organization's branch in Jerusalem and shut down its publication, Hamivrak. The leaders of Lehi, Natan Yellin-Mor and Mattityahu Shmuelevitz, were sentenced to long jail terms by a military court, but were released in a general amnesty.

Quote:

...At the same time, the Haganah further strengthened its independent basis during the war. A systematic program of training was instituted for the youth of the country. In 1941, the Haganah's first mobilized regiment, the Palmach came into being. At the end of the war, when it became clear that the British government had no intention of altering its anti-Zionist policy, the Haganah began an open, organized struggle against British Mandatory rule in the framework of a unified Jewish Resistance Movement, consisting of Haganah, Irgun Zevai Le'umi - Etzel, and Lohamei Herut Yisrael—Lehi.

Haganah branches were established at Jewish D.P. [displaced person] camps in Europe and Haganah members accompanied the “illegal” immigrant boats. In the spring of 1947, David Ben-Gurion took it upon himself to direct the general policy of the Haganah, especially in preparation for impending Arab attack. On May 26 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel decided to transform the Haganah into the regular army of the State, to be called “Zeva Haganah Le-Yisrael”—The Israel Defense Forces.

Quote:

The Altalena, purchased by Irgun members abroad, was originally intended to reach Israel on May 15, 1948, loaded with fighters and military equipment. Weapons purchase and organizational matters took longer than expected, however, and the sailing was postponed for several weeks. Meanwhile, on June 1st, an agreement had been signed for the absorption of the Irgun into the IDF and one of the clauses stated that the Irgun had to cease all independent arms acquisition activities. Consequently, representatives of the Israel Government were informed about the ship and its sailing schedule.

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/

By studying history can we learn form our mistake but the IDF soldiers first came from those 3 terrorists groups, their tactic never changed, they are still terrorists more than ever but now we refer to them as the IDF, nifty little trick no, change the name and become honorable but deep down inside, the same terrorist idealogy still remains some 60 years after it's creation.

Does the Hezbollah seems so bad now for wanting to defend itself and their country from the oppressing Isralies like the Irgun, Lehi and Haganah did agains't the british policies & occupation at the time?

I just hate fucking double standards, It's ok for the Jews to have done it in the past but not ok for the Hammas and Hizbollah to do it now?

They are walking a fine line and those 2 IDF soldiers crossed it or are there Israel sacrificial lambs sent for the slaughter to give them an EXCUSE to bomb the shit out of Lebanon?

Pisser, FYI, that first family of 6 that were killed at the beginning of the conflict are from my city. If you would do a bit more reading instead of being spoonfed by the mainstream tv media, you would know that the river Jordan is almost dried up. It is predicted that in 2 years it will be unusable and where will Israel will get their water supply then? They were warned 10 years ago of this imminent water problem but did nothing to solve it. Strangely enough, Lebanon has plenty of fresh drinkable water, do the math.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

Ok, but how is this destroying them?

You apparently think the Israeli army is in Lebanon hugging and kissing them but in reality they're bombing and shelling and shooting them, which is fairly destructive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

How is another invasion and occupation by UN forces going to be any different this time?

This is an Israeli operation. Have you been smoking something weird?? You seem as confused as floyd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

Note the Title: Israel is totally justified....

Hopefully, destroying their ability to be an effective terrorist orgainization is what I meant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Pisser, FYI, that first family of 6 that were killed at the beginning of the conflict are from my city. If you would do a bit more reading instead of being spoonfed by the mainstream tv media, you would know that the river Jordan is almost dried up. It is predicted that in 2 years it will be unusable and where will Israel will get their water supply then? They were warned 10 years ago of this imminent water problem but did nothing to solve it. Strangely enough, Lebanon has plenty of fresh drinkable water, do the math.

I have no idea where you are from, looks like canada, based on your Canuck thing next to your picture.

Rivers don't concern me, and they don't seem to concern Israel either.

So teach...where would you suggest I read???? Public Library????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

it won't destroy them and it's not any different then last time. what we are seeing now is yet another futile knee-jerk military response. regardless of intent, the primary impact will be civilian deaths...and every Arab that loses somebody then becomes another potential recruit for the cause of radical Islam. and on and on it goes.

Hezbollah is intertwined with the fabric of Lebanese society - unless you plan to kill them all, this latest incurion will solve nothing. as with every other military incursion in the Middle East for the last 60 years, this will simply perpetuate the cycle of violence.

it should be obvious by now that terrorism in the Middle East this cannot be eliminated militarily. if we had leadership with vision in this country, we might look toward the long-term goal of developing alternate fuel technology, which will ultimately render the Arab states (and Israel too) geopolitically irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

You apparently think the Israeli army is in Lebanon hugging and kissing them but in reality they're bombing and shelling and shooting them, which is fairly destructive.

Which is the same thing that they did last time... so if it's so effective why are they doing it again?

Quote:

This is an Israeli operation. Have you been smoking something weird?? You seem as confused as floyd.

Poorly constructed sentence on my part, invasion by Israel with the assumption of a UN lead peacekeeping force to enforce a buffer zone between the two at some point in the near future.

Better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknife

it should be obvious by now that terrorism in the Middle East this cannot be eliminated militarily. if we had leadership with vision in this country, we might look toward the long-term goal of developing alternate fuel technology, which will ultimately render the Arab states (and Israel too) geopolitically irrelevant.

Irrelevant for who? The US, Britian, China?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

Pisser, i'm from Montreal if you must know.

And yes, it is a big deal that river does concern Israel. It is their MAIN water supply, as much as it is for Jordan and Syria for that matter. Your public library will not help you since they mostly carry the mainstream media papers. Here some reading about the matter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4337341.stm

http://www.palestine-pmc.com/details.asp?cat=3&id=506

http://www.d-n-i.net/al_aqsa_intifada/collins_water.htm

Water is life, especially in a desertic region. Israel will stop at nothing for the survival of the state, even if this means invading neighbors to get what they need. They were warned and did nothing, they are brigning their own undoing by their inaction and are looking for an easyer solution, the Invasion of Lebanon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

Irrelevant for who? The US, Britian, China?

my point is that the real reason, way deep down, that we care about israel and the rest of the Middle East is oil - that is why the region is important. take oil out of the equation and, right or wrong, the Middle East, like Africa, ceases to be of geoplotical importance to the US. since we cannot solve thier problems, and they are not willing to make the concessions necessary to solve thier problems, let's figure out a way to not need the Middle East.

"You can't fix stupid." Ron White

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

Have you been smoking something weird?? You seem as confused as floyd.

you picked a bad week to start huffing glue again

what nukes?

ahhh the good old days, having fun with albed :)

A very interesting point of view from a Rabbi

Quote:

Neil Cavuto conducts what is perhaps the most important interview on earth today because it unequivocally trashes in no uncertain terms the diabolical HOAX that has tricked people of good will around the world into supporting the un-Godly abomination that calls itself a “Jewish state.”

FOX's Neil Cavuto asks whether Israel should exist and Rabbi Yisroel Weiss from Jews United Against Zionism tells Cavuto, and the world, how badly the state of Israel has f*cked things up for EVERYONE - both Jews and non-Jews.

Rabbi Weiss: This is the view that was shared throughout the past hundred years, when the whole movement of Zionism was created, the concept – the ideology – of transforming Judaism from spirituality, a religion, into materialism a nationalistic goal to have a piece of land, all the rabbinical authorities said this is antithetical with what Judaism is all about – expressly forbidden by the Torah because we are in exile by God.

Cavuto: So, you shouldn’t have a state? You shouldn’t have a country? You shouldn’t have a government?

We shouldn’t have a state. We should be living amongst all the nations as the Jews were doing for two thousand years as loyal citizens, people who are serving God, emulating God with compassion . . .

Contrary to what people believe, that it’s a religious conflict, we have been living for hundreds of years among Muslims and Arab communities without any UN human rights groups to watch…

Cavuto: Let me ask you this, Rabbi, was life better for the Jews prior to the creation of the Jewish state of Israel?

Weiss: 100%. In Palestine, we have the testimony of the Jewish community living there and other lands that they were living in harmony and they pleaded with the United Nations, in the documents we have, the chief Rabbi of Jerusalem said we do not want a Jewish state. The Muslim, Christian and Jewish inhabitants were ignored with the creation of the State . . .

Cavuto: Neverthless, you might not have had a country per se, but you were not a stranger to being abused or slaughtered over the millennia, particularly as recently as fifty sixty years ago?

Weiss: There is an issue of being killed because of anti-semitism, and then there’s another issue where you antagonize and you create your anti-semitism through Zionism . . . in other words, it’s not a free for all – you knock out your neighbors windows and yell anti-semitism.

Cavuto: I know you are an orthodox Jew, what do traditional Jews think of that position?

Weiss: [The mainstream Jewish view] is that, true, we shouldn’t be having a state, but once it’s created the Zionist propaganda that the Arabs want to throw every Jew into the ocean and there’s a ingrained hate against the Jews, which they’ve convinced many Jews to believe, this is why they’re fearful of returning the land . . .

Cavuto: Well you can’t blame them, right, I mean you have the president of Iran who says the Holocaust never existed and if he had his druthers he’d destroy Israel and all the Jews.

Weiss: That’s also patently false. He has a Jewish community in Iran and they haven’t murdered them when they had the opportunity to . . .

Cavuto: So, you don’t take him at his word that he would try to kill Jews?

Weiss: He would [want] the dismantling of the political state of Israel. In fact, we went, a whole group of Rabbis this last year to visit Iran, and we were taken up by the leaders, we met with the vice president, he [Ahmedinejad] was in Venezuela at the time, we met with religious leaders, all of them stated unequivocally that don’t have a conflict with [Jews]

Cavuto: So as long as Israel exists, Rabbi, you think – just itching for trouble

Weiss: Jews are suffering, Palestinians and Lea are suffering . . . we pray for the speedy and peaceful dismantlment of the Jewish state.

Cavuto: It’s interesting Rabbi, you don’t hear that view often.

No, we don’t. This clip needs to get around the world as fast as humanly possible.

It’s in your hands.

You can find the original interview here

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launch...0Launch%20Page

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

Which is the same thing that they did last time... so if it's so effective why are they doing it again?

Because it was so effective. It was the withdrawal that caused the present problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk-a-mite

Poorly constructed sentence on my part, invasion by Israel with the assumption of a UN lead peacekeeping force to enforce a buffer zone between the two at some point in the near future.

Better?

Better than the former situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

So this is about water? Pull your head out of your arse woman! It's bout terrorists. Period.

Funny how you say 'mainstream media' when you just put those links up from 'mainstream media'. If BBC isn't 'mainstream' I don't know what is.

Are you telling me 6 canadians were killed? IF so, they should have staying in Canada hugging trees with you.

Please don't send me crap form what environmentalists 'Warn' MIGHT happen.

It's just greenpeace propaganda!

Fuck Lebanon, they can all burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, and hopefully they can take Syria and Iran bastards with them!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

Fuck Lebanon, they can all burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, and hopefully they can take Syria and Iran bastards with them!!!

I just love a good debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

water might be an issue, i don't know...but is this all just another skirmish in the "War On Terra"? unlikely. Prof. Juan Cole sees the big picture:

Quote:

Sunday, August 06, 2006

One Ring to Rule Them

The wholesale destruction of all of Lebanon by Israel and the US Pentagon does not make any sense. Why bomb roads, bridges, ports, fuel depots in Sunni and Christian areas that have nothing to do with Shiite Hizbullah in the deep south? And, why was Hizbullah's rocket capability so crucial that it provoked Israel to this orgy of destruction? Most of the rockets were small katyushas with limited range and were highly inaccurate. They were an annoyance in the Occupied Golan Heights, especially the Lebanese-owned Shebaa Farms area. Hizbullah had killed 6 Israeli civilians since 2000. For this you would destroy a whole country?

It doesn't make any sense.

Moreover, the Lebanese government elected last year was pro-American! Why risk causing it to fall by hitting the whole country so hard?

And, why was Condi Rice's reaction to the capture of two Israeli soldiers and Israel's wholesale destruction of little Lebanon that these were the "birth pangs" of the "New Middle East"? How did she know so early on that this war would be so wideranging? And, how could a little border dispute in the Levant signal such an elephantine baby's advent? Isn't it because she had, like Tony Blair, been briefed about the likelihood of a war by the Israelis, or maybe collaborated with them in the plans, and also conceived of it in much larger strategic terms?

a larger picture indeed...and why keep do our leaders keep dragging Iran into it?

Quote:

Iran is astride the Oil Gulf, which has the majority of the world's proven gas and petroleum reserves. Iran has a silkworm missile capability that could interfere with oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. It also has emerged as the most influential country in oil-rich South Iraq, which is, like Iran, Shiite Muslim.

Iran is no credible military threat to the United States, though US warmongers are always depicting it as such, rather as they manufactured ramshackle 4th-world Iraq into a dire military menace to the US, allowing for a war of choice to be fought against it.

The regime in Iran has not gone away despite decades of hostility toward it by Washington, and despite the latter's policy of "containment." As a result, US petroleum corporations are denied significant opportunities for investment in the Iranian petroleum sector. Worse, Iran has made a big energy deal with China and is negotiating with India. As those two countries emerge as the superpowers of the 21st century, they will attempt to lock up Gulf petroleum and gas in proprietary contracts.

the neocon solution?

Quote:

It may be that that hawks are thinking this way: Destroy Lebanon, and destroy Hizbullah, and you reduce Iran's strategic depth. Destroy the Iranian nuclear program and you leave it helpless and vulnerable to having done to it what the Israelis did to Lebanon. You leave it vulnerable to regime change, and a dragooning of Iran back into the US sphere of influence, denying it to China and assuring its 500 tcf of natural gas to US corporations. You also politically reorient the entire Gulf, with both Saddam and Khamenei gone, toward the United States. Voila, you avoid peak oil problems in the US until a technological fix can be found, and you avoid a situation where China and India have special access to Iran and the Gulf.

The second American Century ensues. The "New Middle East" means the "American Middle East."

And it all starts with the destruction of Lebanon.

More wars to come, in this scenario, since hitting Lebanon was like hitting a politician's bodyguard. You don't kill a bodyguard just to kill the bodyguard. It is phase I of a bigger operation.

it is naive to think this is just about a couple of missing israeli soldiers - and no one is under the illusion the Hezbollah is going to be destroyed here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknife

big pile of bs.

FFS knife can't you just read all your own crap and summarize it?

I have a minute, here: liberal crackpot says Israel is invading Lebanon so the U.S. can conquer the whole middle east.

Now even you can understand it. Maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

FFS knife can't you just read all your own crap and summarize it?

I have a minute, here: liberal crackpot says Israel is invading Lebanon so the U.S. can conquer the whole middle east.

yeah, what a crackpot :

Quote:

Juan R. I. Cole is Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History at the History Department of the University of Michigan. A bibliography of his writings may be found here. He has written extensively about modern Islamic movements in Egypt, the Persian Gulf, and South Asia. He has given numerous media and press interviews on the War on Terrorism since September 11, 2001, as well as concerning the Iraq War in 2003. His current research focuses on two contemporary phenomena: 1) Shiite Islam in Iraq and Iran and 2) the "jihadi" or "sacred-war" strain of Muslim radicalism, including al-Qaeda and the Taliban among other groups. Cole commands Arabic, Persian and Urdu and reads some Turkish, knows both Middle Eastern and South Asian Islam, and lived in a number of places in the Muslim world for extended periods of time. His most recent book is Sacred Space and Holy War (IB Tauris 2002). This volume collects some of his work on the history of the Shiite branch of Islam in modern Iraq, Iran and the Gulf. He treated Shi`ism in his co-edited book, Shi`ism and Social Protest (Yale, 1986), of his first monograph, Roots of North Indian Shi`ism in Iran and Iraq (California, 1989). His interest in Iranian religion is further evident in his work on Baha'i studies, which eventuated in his 1998 book, Modernity and the Millennium: The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth Century Middle East (Columbia University Press). He has also written a good deal about modern Egypt, including a book, Colonialism and Revolution in the Middle East: Social and Cultural Origins of Egypt's `Urabi Movement (Princeton, 1993). His concern with comparative history and Islamics is evident in his edited Comparing Muslim Societies (Michigan, 1992).

Professional History

1975 B.A. History and Literature of Religions, Northwestern University

1978 M.A. Arabic Studies/History, American University in Cairo

1984 Ph.D. Islamic Studies, University of California Los Angeles

1984-1990 Assistant Professor of History, University of Michigan

1990-1995 Associate Professor of History, University of Michigan

1992-1995 Director, Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies, University of Michigan

1995- Professor of History, University of Michigan

Scholastic Awards and Grants ; Hudson Research Professorship, Winter, 2003 ; Award for Research in Turkey, May, 1999, International Institute, U-M ; Research Excellence Award, College of LSA, U-M, August, 1997 ; OVPR and LSA Faculty Assistance Fund Grants, June, 1995 ; LSA Faculty Assistance Fund Grant, March 1994 ; Rackham Research Partnership, 1992-93 ; National Endowment for the Humanities, Jan.-June, 1991 ; Office of the Vice-President for Research, U-M (Pakistan), Summer 1990 ; Horace H. Rackham Faculty Grant, Egypt, Summer 1988 ; SSRC/ACLS Post-Doctoral Award, England, Summer 1986 ; Fulbright-Hays Islamic Civilization Postdoctoral Award, Egypt, 1985-86 ; SSRC/ACLS Doctoral Fellowship, Pakistan, India, UK, 1981-83 ; Fulbright-Hays Doctoral Fellowship, India, 1982

Recent National Service

Middle East Studies Association of North America:

1999-2004. Editor, The International Journal of Middle East Studies (Published by Cambridge University Press for the Middle East Studies Association of North America).
1998 Program Committee chair, MESA annual conference
1996, 1989 Officer Nominating Committee

1991, Book Award Committee, Middle East Studies Association

1988-1992 Book Review Editor, International Journal of Middle East Studies

1987-1989 Society for Iranian Studies: Council

Other

2003- Editor, H-Mideast-Politics Electronic Forum.

1997- Editor, H-Bahai Electronic Forum and Journal

1995-2000 Editorial Board, Critique
1993-1996 Social Science Research Council: Joint Committee on the Near and Middle East

1993 Columbia University, Middle East Institute: Outside Reviewer.

1992-1994 Eastern Consortium of Middle East Centers: Chairman, Persian-Turkish Summer Programs

1992-1995 American Institute of Iranian Studies: Board of Directors

1992 American Council of Learned Societies: Fellowship Selection Committee

1991- Editorial Board, Iranian Studies

Academic Publications

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Books

Sacred Space and Holy War: The Politics, Culture and History of Shi`ite Islam (London: I.B. Tauris, 2002)
Nationalism and the Colonial Legacy in the Middle East and Central Asia. Co-edited with Deniz Kandiyoti. Special Issue of The International Journal of Middle East Studies Vol. 34, no. 2 (May 2002), pp. 187-424.

Religion in Iran: From Zoroaster to Baha'u'llah by Alessandro Bausani. [Editor of this English translation of Persia Religiosa, Milan, 1958, and contributor of afterwords and bibliographical updates]. New York: Bibliotheca Persica Press, 2000.

Broken Wings: A Novel by Kahlil Gibran. [Translation of the Arabic novel, al-Ajnihah al-Mutakassirah.] Ashland, Or.: White Cloud Press, 1998.

Modernity and the Millennium:The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East. New York:Columbia University Press. May, 1998.
The Vision [ar-Ru'ya] of Kahlil Gibran [prose poems translated from the Arabic]. Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1998. [ Hardcover Edn.: Ashland, Or.: White Cloud Press, 1994.]

Spirit Brides [`Ara'is al-muruj] of Kahlil Gibran [short stories translated from the Arabic]. Santa Cruz: White Cloud Press, 1993.

Colonialism and Revolution in the Middle East: Social and Cultural Origins of Egypt's `Urabi Movement.Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1993. Paperback edn., Cairo: American University in Cairo Press, 1999.

Comparing Muslim Societies. [Edited.] (Comparative Studies in Society and History series.) Ann Arbor:University of Michigan Press, 1992. Review

Roots of North Indian Shi`ism in Iran and Iraq: Religion and State in Awadh, 1722-1859. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1988; New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1991.

Shi`ism and Social Protest. [Edited, with Nikki Keddie]. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1986.

Letters and Essays 1886-1913 [Rasa'il va Raqa'im] of Mirza Abu'l-Fadl Gulpaygani [tr. from Arabic and Persian]. Los Angeles: Kalimat Press, 1985.

From Iran East and West: Studies in Babi and Baha'i History, vol. 2 [Edited, with Moojan Momen, and contributor.] "Baha'u'llah and the Naqshbandi Sufis in Iraq, 1854-1856." Los Angeles:Kalimat Press, 1984.

Miracles and Metaphors [Ad-Durar al-bahiyyah] of Mirza Abu'l-Fadl Gulpaygani [tr. from the Arabic and annotated]. Los Angeles: Kalimat Press, 1982.

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Book Chapters and Articles
"Of Crowds and Empires: Afro-Asian Riots and European Expansion, 1857-1882." [Extensively revised.] In Fernando Coronil and Julie Skurski, eds.
States of Violence. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 2006, pp. 269-305.

"Empires of Liberty? Democracy and Conquest in French Egypt, British Egypt and American Iraq." In Lessons of Empire: Imperial Histories and
American Power. Ed. Calhoun, Craig, Frederick Cooper and Kevin W. Moore, eds. New York: The New Press, 2006. Pp. 94-115. .

“A ‘Shiite Crescent’? The Regional Impact of the Iraq War.” Current History. (January 2006): 20-26.

"Globalisation and Religion in the Thought of Abdu'l-Baha ." In Margit Warburg, Annika Hvithamar and Morten Warmind, eds., Baha'i and
Globalisation. Aarhus: Aarhus University Press, 2005, pp. 55-75.

Juan Cole et al., “A Shia Crescent: What Fallout for the U.S.?” Middle East Policy Volume XII, Winter 2005, Number 4, pp. . (Joint oral round table).

“The Baha’i Minority and Nationalism in Contemporary Iran.” In Maya Shatzmiller, ed., Nationalism and Minority Identities in Islamic Societies.
Montreal: McGill-Queen’s University Press, 2005. Pp. 127-163.

“The Reelection of Bush and the Fate of Iraq,” Constellations, Volume 12, no. 2 (June 2005): 164-172.
“Blogger Hits the Hundredth Monkey Phase. “ In Kristina Borjesson, Feet to the Fire: The Media After 9/11, Top Journalists Speak Out (New York:
Prometheus Books, 2005), pp. 395-426. (Transcribed interview.)

“The Evolution of Charismatic Authority in the Baha’i Faith (1863-1921," in Robert Gleave, ed. Religion and Society in Qajar Iran. London and New
York: Routledge Curzon, 2005. Pp. 311- 345.

“The Azali-Baha’i Crisis of September 1867.” In Moshe Sharon, ed. Studies in Modern Religions, Religious Movements, and the Babi-Baha’i
Faiths. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 2004. Pp. 227-251.

“World Theology and the Baha’i Faith,” in Thomas Ryba, George D. Bond and Herman Tull, eds. The Comity and Grace of Method: Eassays in Honor
of Edmund F. Perry. Evanston, Ill.: Northwestern University Press, 2004. Pp. 391-414.

"The United States and Shi‘ite Religious Factions in Post-Ba‘thist Iraq," The Middle East Journal, Volume 57, Number 4, Autumn 2003, pp. 543-566.
Available in PDF format at the Middle East Institute site. .
"The Taliban, Women, and the Hegelian Private Sphere," Social Research, Volume 70 No. 2 (Fall 2003).

"The Iraqi Shiites: On the history of America’s would-be allies," Boston Review, Fall, 2003.

"The Imagined Embrace: Gender, Identity and Iranian Ethnicity in Jahangiri Paintings." In Michel Mazzaoui, ed. Safavid Iran and her Neighbors (Salt Lake City: Utah University Press, 2003), pp. 49-62.

"Mad Sufis and Civic Courtesans: The French Republican Construction of Eighteenth-Century Egypt." In Irene Bierman, ed. Napoleon in Egypt. (London: Ithaca Press, 2003), pp. 47-62.

"Al-Tahtawi on Poverty and Welfare," in Michael Bonner, Mine Ener and Amy Singer, eds. Poverty and Charity in Middle Eastern Contexts (Albany, NY: State University of New York Press, 2003), pp. 223-238.

"The Provincial Politics of Heresy and Reform in Qajar Iran: Shaykh al-Rais in Shiraz, 1895-1902." Comparative Studies of South Asia, Africa and the Middle East Vol. 22, nos. 1-2 (2002 [2003]), pp. 119-126.

"Iranian Culture and South Asia, 1500-1900," in N. Keddie and R. Matthee, eds., Iran and the Surrounding World: Interactions in Culture and Cultural Politics (Seattle: University of Washington Press, 2002).

"Printing and Urban Islam in the Mediterannean World, 1890-1920," in Leila Tarazi Fawaz and C. A. Bayly, eds., Modernity and Culture from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean (New York: Columbia University Press, 2002), pp. 344-364.

"Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community." Review of Religious Research, Vol. 43, no. 3 (March, 2002):195-217.

"Shaikh al-Ra'is and Sultan Abdülhamid II: The Iranian Dimension of Pan-Islam," in Israel Gershoni, Hakan Erdem, Ursula Wokoeck, Histories of the Modern Middle East: New Directions (Boulder, CO: Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2002), pp. 167-185.

"Millennialism in Modern Iranian History," in Abbas Amanat and Magnus Bernhardsson, eds. Imagining the End: Visions of Apocalypse from the Ancient Middle East to Modern America (London: I.B. Tauris, 2002), pp. 282-311.

“Individualism and the Spiritual Path in Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa’i,” in Lynda Clarke, ed., Shi`ite Heritage: Essays on Classical and Modern Traditions (Binghamton, N.Y.: Global Publications/SUNY Binghamton, 2001):345-358.

“Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i on the Sources of Religious Authority,” in Linda Walbridge, ed., The Source for Emulation in Shi`ite Islam, (New York: Oxford University Press, 2001): 82-93.

“Comment” [on chapter of Lucette Valensi], in André Burguière and Raymond Grew, eds., The Construction of Minorities (Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 2001), pp. 121-125.

“Casting Away the Self: The Mysticism of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa’i,” in Rainer Brunner and Werner Ende, eds., The Twelver Shi`a in Modern Times (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 2001), pp. 25-37.

“New Perspectives on Sayyid Jamal al-Din al-Afghani in Egypt,” in Rudi Matthee and Beth Baron, eds., Iran and Beyond: Essays in Middle Eastern History in Honor of Nikki R. Keddie (Costa Mesa, Ca.: Mazda Publishers Inc., 2000), pp. 13-34.

“Race, Immorality and Money in the American Baha'i Community: Impeaching the Los Angeles Spiritual Assembly.” Religion 30, no. 2 (2000):109-125, 141-147.

“The Indian Subcontinent,” Iranian Studies, vol. 31, numbers 3-4 (Summer/Fall 1998 [1999]), 583-593.

"Religious Dissidence and Urban Leadership: Baha'is in Qajar Shiraz and Tehran." Iran: Journal of the British Institute for Persian Studies 37 (1999): 123-142.

“Autobiography and Silence: The Early Career of Shaykh al-Ra’is Qajar,” in Johann Christoph Bürgel and Isabel Schayani, eds., Iran im 19. Jarhundert und die Entstehung der Baha’i-Religion (Zürich: Georg Olms Verlag, 1998), pp. 91-126.

“The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997.” Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, vol. 37, no. 2 (June 1998): 234-248.

"Shi`ite Noblewomen and Religious Innovation in Awadh," in Violette Graf, ed., Lucknow through the Ages (New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1997), pp. 83-90.

"Behold the Man: Baha’u’llah on the Life of Jesus." Journal of the American Academy of Religion vol. 65, no. 1 (1997): 47-71.

"Baha'u'llah and Liberation Theology," in Jack McLean, ed. Revisioning Theology. (Los Angeles: Kalimat Press, 1997), 79-98.

"Sacred Space and Holy War in India," in Khalid Masud, Brinkley Messick and David Powers, eds., Fatwa: Muftis and Interpretation in Muslim Societies (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1996), pp. 173-183.

"Marking Boundaries, Marking Time: The Iranian Past and the Construction of the Self by Qajar Thinkers," Iranian Studies 29, nos. 1-2 (Winter/Spring 1996 [1997]):35-56.

"Mirror of the World: Iranian `Orientalism' and Early 19th-Century India." Critique: Journal of Critical Studies of Iran and the Middle East (Spring 1996) pp. 41-60.

"Power, Knowledge and Orientalism," [Feature Review Article], Diplomatic History 19, no. 3 (Summer 1995):507-513.

"Colonialism and Censorship," in Roger Long, ed., The Man on the Spot: Essays on British Empire History (Westport, CT: Greenwood Publishing, 1995), pp. 45-62.

"Gender, Tradition and History," in Fatma Müge Gocek et al., eds., Reconstructing Gender in the Middle East (New York: Columbia University Press, 1995), pp. 26-31.

"The World as Text: Cosmologies of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i," Studia Islamica 80 (1994):145-163.

"`I am All the Prophets': The Poetics of Pluralism in Baha'i Texts," Poetics Today 14, no. 3 (Fall 1993): 447-476.

"Invisible Occidentalism: 18th-Century Indo-Persian Constructions of the West," Iranian Studies, 25, nos. 3-4 (1992 [1993]): 3-16. Persian trans. Darius Shayegan, “Gharb-Shinasi-yi Avvaliyyih,” Guftigu (Summer 1373):23-37.

"Iranian Millenarianism and Democratic Thought in the Nineteenth Century." International Journal of Middle East Studies 24, no. 1 (February 1992):1-26.

"Ideology, Ethics and Philosophical Discourse in Eighteenth Century Iran." Iranian Studies 22, no. 1 (1989 [1990]):7-34.

"The Baha'is of Iran." History Today 40 (March 1990):24-29.

"Of Crowds and Empires: Afro-Asian Riots and European Expansion, 1857-1882." Comparative Studies in Society and History 31, 1 (1989):106-133.

"Rival Empires of Trade and Imami Shi`ism in Eastern Arabia 1300-1800." International Journal of Middle East Studies 19, 2 (1987):177-204.

"Mafia, Mob and Shi`ism in Iraq: The Rebellion of Ottoman Karbala 1824-1843." [w/ Moojan Momen.] Past and Present 112 (August 1986):112-43.

"`Indian Money' and the Shi`i Shrine Cities of Iraq 1786-1850," Middle Eastern Studies 22, 4 (1986):461-80. Persian tr. as "Pul-i Hindi va `atabat," Chishmandaz (Paris) no. 5 & 6 (Autumn 1988 and Winter 1989).

"Shi'i Clerics in Iraq and Iran 1722-1780: The Akhbari-Usuli Controversy Reconsidered." Iranian Studies 18, 1 (1985):3-34.

"Rashid Rida on the Baha'i Faith: A Utilitarian Theory of the Spread of Religions." Arab Studies Quarterly 5 (1983):276-91.

"Imami Jurisprudence and the Role of the Ulama." Religion and Politics in Iran. N. Keddie, ed. (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1983), 33-46.

"Feminism, Class and Islam in Turn-of-the-Century Egypt." International Journal of Middle East Studies 13 (1981):387-407.

"Rifa`a al-Tahtawi and the Revival of Practical Philosophy." The Muslim World 70 (1980):29-46.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recent Refereed Paper Presentations and Invited Lectures

2003
"The Shiites and the War in Iraq."
March 26, 2003.
University of Utah Center for Middle East Studies

"Muhammad Atta's Doomsday Document and the Mind of the Perpetrator."
Conference on "The Mind of the Perpetrator."
April 12, 2003.
Yale Center for Genocide Studies

2002
Security Studies Program, MIT, May 1
"The End of Islamization? Pakistan's Foreign and Domestic Policy in the Wake of the War on Terror"
Bogazici University, May 22-25
Conference on the 20th Century Historiography of the Middle East
"The Historiography of Muslim Fundamentalism"

University of Hawaii, Honolulu
Conference on the International Social Sciences
"Muslim Crowd Politics in Pakistan after September 11"

Flint Institute of Art, Nov. 7, Series: "The Arabic Influence"
"Kahlil Gibran: Between Symbolism and Modernism"

Middle East Studies Association, Washington D.C., Nov. 23-26
"Pakistan's Foreign Policy Toward Afghanistan, 2001-2002"

Conference on Privacies, New School for Social Research, Dec. 6-8
"The Taliban and Hegelian Privacy"

2001
St. Anthony's College Middle East Center, Oxford
Annual Enayat Lecture, May, 2001
"Modernity and its Discontents in Qajar Iran"
Department of Sociology, University of Copenhagen, August 21-24
Globalisation and the Baha'i Faith
"`Abdu'l-Baha on Globalization"

Islamic Area Studies Project, Tokyo, October 5-8
"The Dynamism of Muslim Societies"
"The Crowd in Muslim Politics: Contemporary Pakistan as a Case Study"

University of Western Ontario
Nationalism and Minorities in the Middle East, December 8-9.
"Iranian Nationalism and the Baha'is"

2000
American Oriental Society, Portland, Oregon, March 12-15
Plenary Address, "Millenarianism in Iran, 1500-2000"
European Colloquium, UCLA, April 13
"Veiled Enlightenment: Male Desire and the Colonized Woman in the French Republic of Egypt"

Conference on "Iran and the Surrounding World since 1500: Cultural
Influences and Interactions"," G.E. von Grunebaum Center for
Near Eastern Studies, UCLA, April 14-15
"The Influence of Iranian Shi`ism in Global History, 1500-1900"

Conference on "Poverty and Charity in Middle Eastern Contexts,"
National Endowment for the Humanities and the Center for
North African and Middle Eastern Studies,
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, May 4-7
"Rifa`ah al-Tahtawi on Poverty"

Conference, "Beyond Appearances: Visual Practices and Ideologies
in Modern India," Center for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan,
Ann Arbor, May 12-13
"Gender and the Subaltern in Early Modern Mughal Painting"

Conference, "Religion in Qajar Iran," University of Bristol, Sept. 2002
"Shaykh Al-Ra'is in Shiraz, 1895-1902"

Middle East Studies Association, Orlando, November 16-19
"The Life of Yahya"

1999
Joint Center for International Studies, University of Wisconsin, Madison
and Milwaukee, "Islam and Politics," April 9-12
"Religious Minorities under Islamist Regimes."
Bosphorus University Istanbul (with Tel Aviv, Beersheva and
Hebrew University support),
New Approaches to Middle Eastern Studies, May 25-29
"Shaykh al-Ra'is and Sultan Abdülhamid II: The Iranian Dimension of Pan-Islam"

University of Freiburg Orientalisches Seminar, "Twelver Shi`ism in the
Modern World," October 4-7
"Knowing the Self, Casting Away the Self: The Mysticism of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i."

Middle East Studies Association, Washington D.C., November 19-22
"Islam and Enlightenment" ( Bicentennial Panel on French Expedition to Egypt)

1998
Middle East Center, University of Utah, Conference on Safavid Iran and its Neighbors, May, 1998
"The Imagined Embrace: Ethnicity and Eroticism in Jahangiri Miniatures"
Society for Iranian Studies, Biennial Conference, Bethesda, Md., May 22-24
"Dissidents, Inquisitions, and Academic Scholarship: Cyberspace and Culture Wars in the 1990s"

Social Science Research Council and the University of Provence, Conference on
Mediterranean Port Cities, September, 1998
"The Print Revolution and Urban Muslim Reformism"

University of Michigan International Institute/Ford Foundation Privacies Seminar
"Miniature Painting and Private Life at the 17th and 18th Century Mughal Courts"

Yale University, Advanced Studies Seminar on Millenarianism, November 17, 1998
"Millennialism in Modern Iranian History"

1997
Social Science Research Council Conference on Nationalism and Postcolonialism, Berkeley, Ca., Nov. 24-25: "The Construction of Nationalism in the Middle East and South Asia"
Middle East Studies Association, 31st Meeting, Nov. 21-24, San Francisco
"Area Studies, Postcolonialism and the Transnational Problematic"

UCLA, Conference on Napoleon in Egypt, May 9-10
"Mad Sufis and Civic Courtesans: The French Republican Construction of 18th Century Egypt."

Morocco: Various University and Writers Association Venues, April 21-24
"Kahlil Gibran between Spirituality, Multiculturalism and Hybridity"

University of Chicago, April 4
"Peace Thought and Globalism in the Middle East: Baha’is and Saint-Simonians"

1996
Middle East Studies Association, 30th Meeting, Nov. 21-24, Providence, R.I.
"Poetry and Rebellion: The Early Career of Shaykhu’r-Ra’is Qajar"
1996 Carson Lecture in History, Oregon State University, Nov. 11
"A Clash of Civilizations: The French Invasion of Egypt, 1798"

SSRC Conference on "Nation-Building After Independence," University of World
Economy and Diplomacy, Tashkent, Uzbekistan, Oct. 26-29
"Western Perspectives on Nationalism in the Middle East."

1995
Middle East Studies Association, 29th Meeting, Dec. 6-11, Washington, D.C. "Marking Boundaries, Marking Time: Uses of the Past by Qajar Reformers"
Critique: Journal of Critical Studies of Iran and the Middle East: Annual Conference Hamline University, Minneapolis, MN, Feb. 17-18
"Representations of the Body in the Colonial Middle East"

So he's worse than a crackpot, he's an elitist member of academia whose crackpot ideas are well respected and, as you've demonstrated, unquestioned by many people. His field of expertiese seems to be Middle East cultures and politics. Does this qualify him to comment on American foreign policy? No, but when has that ever stopped anybody?

And even if he's right and he isn't a crackpot, he is a leftist and that colors all of his opinions. So don't be surprised if some people choose not to believe everything they read just because the writer has a huge bibliography. And try to remember that credentialism is a poor substitute for real argument.

actually, i just saw his credentials for the first time today, when i posted them. i started reading Juan Cole's Informed Comment blog back in 2003, when he was outlining, in great detail, what a monumentally stupid idea the invasion of Iraq was going to turn out to be. turns out we were both right about that one :W:

Be as smug as you like, you and Cole are two peas in a pod. I'm all the less inclined to believe a word you write.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknife

That guy who showed us what one can do with Coke and a Menthos is at it again ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-...t_b_26301.html

dum dum dum dum dum...

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

Pisser, that family was Lebanese with canadian citizenship. They went back for a holiday feast as many lebanese canadians did FYI. Israel knew that and it didn't stop bombing the shit of canadian/USA/France... who were granted citizenship by those countries.

As for your last comment, do you realise that more soldiers will be needed to accomplish that insane task you are wishing for? If you seriously believe that it should be so, please go to your closest recruiting center since they really need ppl/canon fodder/brainwashed ones like you. Since Bush decided to grant himself the ultimate power if push comes to shove(l) shit, be sure he will not hesitate to bring back the draft. On behalf of this montreal lebanese family that suffered a great loss, I hope you will be on the first round so you can tell personnally the Lebanese, Iranians and Syrians exactly how you feel.

If you really want those country to be wiped off the map, atleast stop barking and jump in the action, Uncle Sam really need you on this mission!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

Be as smug as you like, you and Cole are two peas in a pod. I'm all the less inclined to believe a word you write.

If you cannot discredit the message, discredit the messenger, old age tactic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

liberal crackpot says Israel is invading Lebanon so the U.S. can conquer the whole middle east.

do you not understand what PNAC is?

They do exist, and their plan is coming to fruition.

Fuckin barely literate frybrain telling me I don't understand something...LMAO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

If you cannot discredit the message, discredit the messenger, old age tactic.

The message discredits itself when it claims that a few mistakes on our leaders' behalf means they're totally wrong about everything. The message is pure rhetorical polemic with no application in the real world. I can't help it if the messenger thinks that garbage is solid gold, but I can relate my distaste for such narrow minded parroting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by albed

Fuckin barely literate frybrain telling me I don't understand something...LMAO.

yep, and when that happens, you lash out with name calling, because you have nothing better to respond with, you are sooooo smart lol

your in denile dude, do you think the PNAC is make believe?

they have an agenda and they are making it happen

The Mess They Made

not doing a great job at it even...

still they have made sure the US will be locked into this foriegn policy disaster for generations to come

Quote:

Originally Posted by malvachat

I just love a good debate.

As I kick back and eat my puddin' with blueberries....

Hahahahahahahaha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicobie

As I kick back and eat my puddin' with blueberries....

Hahahahahahahaha

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, californian blueberries :drool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

If you really want those country to be wiped off the map, atleast stop barking and jump in the action, Uncle Sam really need you on this mission!

Just like I don't know much about you, you don't know much about me.

I have already served Uncle Sam in the US Army. So, even if they brought back the draft, they couldn't take me as I have fulfilled my commitment.

Believe me, In my current job, I AM on the mission, it is a mission of supplying weapons to our allies.

What do you think about that???

P.S. I guess that 'family' you keep blabbering about picked the wrong time for a vacation, if you think Israel would have stopped for them, your smoking the wrong stuff.

If Hezbolla knew that that family hypothetically supported the western world, I bet they would have beaten Israel to the punch.

Bush pre-planned Lebanon War

Today on CNN, Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker, the one who mainstreamed the Abu Gahrib story, has confirmed with insiders that Bush and the Israeli Government planned months in advance that any incident, no matter how small, would ignite a broad and punishing response by Israel in a preemptive move to start a war with Iran. Bush’s Neocon advanced plan actually included Israel destroying Hezbollah’s missles as pre-cursor to an attack on Iran. The war with Iran is on the assembly line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eBrfrWoTk

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisser

Just like I don't know much about you, you don't know much about me.

True enough.

Quote:

I have already served Uncle Sam in the US Army. So, even if they brought back the draft, they couldn't take me as I have fulfilled my commitment.

By your pic on Maze site, if you served uncle sam it was back in the 1990 unless you were deceitful on that pic. If you served, good for you but don't think you are immune to a next calling/draft unless you're a crippled war veteran. If Bush needs you and BTW, who needs congress now, you just will find yourself back in that hellhole.

Quote:

Believe me, In my current job, I AM on the mission, it is a mission of supplying weapons to our allies.

Good for you!

Quote:

What do you think about that???

Not much beside War Mongering? Got a point? Can I serve you some freedom fries with that?

Quote:

P.S. I guess that 'family' you keep blabbering about picked the wrong time for a vacation, if you think Israel would have stopped for them, your smoking the wrong stuff.

Hell, another Albed, can't see the horror of it so the next reply is that I must be smoking, figures :rolleye: Seems i'm not the only one that was moved by the MURDER of this family, some others were and tried to protest with a simple march of peace to make their feelings known to the state, unfortunately, Israel are hard on censorship these days...

Quote:

IDF Causes Serious Head Injury to Israeli Lawyer
Saturday, 12 August 2006, 8:57 am
Press Release: International Solidarity Movement
Israeli Army Cause Serious Head Injury to Israeli Lawyer at Demonstration

Earlier today, August 11, the Israeli Army and Border Police shot an Israeli demonstrator with rubber bullets from close range in the head and neck, causing serious injuries. The man, who is a lawyer, was taken by the army to Tel Hasomer hospital from where he is reported to have suffered brain damage.

In total 9 people were shot with rubber bullets in a non-violent demonstration in Bil'in. Those shot included 2 villagers of as well as citizens of Denmark, France, USA, Japan and Israel. Other people from United Kingdom, Sweden, Denmark were beaten, struck with rifle butt or injured by sound grenade fragments.

About 200 demonstrators joined the peaceful march from the Bil'in mosque to the Apartheid Wall about 1 km away. The purpose of the march was to demonstrate against the 'New Style of Killing' where even children are targetted by Israeli military forces. The marchers carried 5 mock bodies symbolising an entire family killed by Israeli military action.

Before the marchers were able to leave the village soldiers blocked their route, announced the demonstration illegal and then immediately fired sound grenades and rubber bullets from close range. The solders' commander claimed the demonstration was illegal although an Israeli court has previously confirmed the right of Bil'in villagers to hold demonstrations.

http://www.palsolidarity.org/main

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) is a Palestinian-led non-violent resistance movement committed to ending Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land. We call for full compliance with all relevant UN resolutions and international law.

Yes, you can feel the greater exchange and understanding here.

Quote:

If Hezbolla knew that that family hypothetically supported the western world, I bet they would have beaten Israel to the punch.

Now I have to ask you, what are you on to make such a post? Israel was the first one to fire and i'm sadden to say that history did repeat itself, google that 6 days war. Israel went Pre emptive on a lot of ppl without proofs of any threats to them beside paranioa. It didn't stop them.

As you woke up to that Bush was a fucktard, you should also realise that this fucktard is after those countries and that what multi posted was only tha first step to invading Iran since they prefer the Euro to your Fiat currency, they are not that dumb, unlike you my ewwwwww friend?

Hell, why bother, you are a Zionist, no more arguing with the Devil minions.

I did my Best to read the whole damn thing,

but all I can say is:

It should be obvious by now that terrorism in the Middle East cannot be eliminated militarily. if we had leadership with vision in this country, we might look toward the long-term goal of developing alternate fuel technology, which will ultimately render the Arab states (and Israel too) geopolitically irrelevant.

[cut and pasted from TK's post]

If we can cut back our purchases, it would cut back their power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicobie

And if we do manage to make all the countries in the middles east totally irrelvant then we can look foreward to headlines like this one from The Onion.

15,000 Brown People Dead Somewhere

OOGA-BOOGA LAND OR WHEREVER–Relief efforts are pouring into some country someplace, where 15,000 brown people have died over the past few weeks from flooding or a hurricane or something like that. "Never have our people endured such a terrible catastrophe," said this one dark-skinned guy who lost his entire family in the disaster of some sort. "Our God has forsaken us." The affected nation may possibly be the same one where about 90,000 brown people died two or three years ago in that one earthquake.

We can simply forget that once upon a time the people there had a chance to govern themselves with the help of the international community led by the USA. We can ignore all the civil wars, the terrorist attacks, and the nuclear proliferation that's sure to take place in the wake of our neglect. Wouldn't it be great if fundamentalists and fascists could run amok without affecting our economy? Wouldn't life in America be so much better if we didn't have to worry about world hunger and human rights violations and ecological disasters on the other side of the world? We could just bring all our soldiers, our ambassadors, and our businessmen home, seal the borders, and wallow in the blissful knowledge that the world's only superpower already has all the resources it will ever need. Now that we don't use petroleum anymore, who cares what happens beyond our borders?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

Yeah, like you feel like you feel like your country should be the watch dog of the world :rolleyes:

Quote:

Wouldn't it be great if fundamentalists and fascists could run amok without affecting our economy?

Might be a change for the best

Quote:

Wouldn't life in America be so much better if we didn't have to worry about world hunger and human rights violations and ecological disasters on the other side of the world?

By your withdrawal of Kioto accords, you made your point heard high and clear.

Quote:

We could just bring all our soldiers, our ambassadors, and our businessmen home, seal the borders, and wallow in the blissful knowledge that the world's only superpower already has all the resources it will ever need. Now that we don't use petroleum anymore, who cares what happens beyond our borders?

IMO, like Pisser, a lot don't aslong as they have the fuel to drive them forth and back from work, they are good little drones, do not resist us, it is futile, you will be assimilated!

No biggie there, only history reapeting itself :shf: :shf: :shf:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

We can simply forget that once upon a time the people there had a chance to govern themselves with the help of the international community led by the USA. We can ignore all the civil wars, the terrorist attacks, and the nuclear proliferation that's sure to take place in the wake of our neglect. Wouldn't it be great if fundamentalists and fascists could run amok without affecting our economy? Wouldn't life in America be so much better if we didn't have to worry about world hunger and human rights violations and ecological disasters on the other side of the world?

the concept is pretty simple: fostering economic independence from a highly volatile, unstable part of the world. implementation of this concept precludes none of the above.

edit: yet another of my crazy far-left positions :W:

My point, miss silver, is that we cannot possibly isolate ourselves from the world, now matter how much some people want us to. It is not our desire nor our responsibility to solve all the world's problems, but since we have some capability then we should at least try, even if we have to get our hands dirty to do it.

To paraphrase Kennedy: "We choose to go to Iraq. We choose to go to Iraq in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

knife, I'm all for economic independance as an end, not as a means to an end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazer

Besides the seal the border part of your post, I would say you are talking about Africa.

Esp. the ---We can ignore all the civil wars, the terrorist attacks, and the nuclear proliferation that's sure to take place in the wake of our neglect. Wouldn't it be great if fundamentalists and fascists could run amok without affecting our economy? --- part.

Good point Sinner. Maybe knife's right, if we didn't have to get most of our oil from the middle east we could concentrate our efforts on Africa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Hell, why bother, you are a Zionist, no more arguing with the Devil minions.

Your one fucked up bitch! Fuckin' get some meds already!

P.S. FYI, All of Israels so called neighbors want to DESTROY them. What fucking more right do they NEED????

Fuck those slimy cocksucking terrorists. PERIOD.

I'd nuke um all and make a parking lot out of the current middle east! :uzi:

Hey Silver,

Why you hate the US so much????

Jealous of US? Obviously in your sad pathetic little world,

or maybe your just a slimy terrorist sympathizer, that would be my observation. :bdance:

What Silver, no snappy comeback? pissin in the wind, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Since you insist...

That the best you got???, I expected better.... :AP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Miss Silver is expecting??!!

Floyd you dog you.

(edit: the "I'm With Stupid" smilie's gone, so this did at one time make sense.)

Mizz Silver . . .

Da qu becqie Canucck and 1st class anglophobic (that be U) has never had a nice thing to say about the United States of America and probably never will.

As they say on the 'straight dope' BB, I pit you on that.

I think you are a rude bitch that is used to getting whatever you want. I figure either you are a daddy's girl or you didn't have a daddy and want to make us all suffer because of it.

Maybe if you read newspapers other than your quebeccian trash you might have a better idea of what the hell goes on in this wackie world.

There are two sides to everything and I've never ever yet heard you say anything other than pro Quebec, and anti US.

I can't understand why Canada hasn't split you off from the rest of the proveniences. At least they are not all on welfare and sucking up to the govmn't teat like quebec has for the last 30 years.

cuest q say, poop poo?

Hahahahahahahaahaa

I guess what I'm trying to say is...

You like to dish it out, let's see if you can take it.

I get a kick out of when my Gov (Arnie) says," I've got more money than Canada" :sarc:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicobie

I figure either you are a daddy's girl or you didn't have a daddy and want to make us all suffer because of it.

Hummmm, quite an oximoron ain't it? If I have a daddy i'm a bitch and if I don't have one, i'm still a bitch, make up your mind dillweed.

Quote:

I get a kick out of when my Gov (Arnie) says," I've got more money than Canada" :sarc:

Good for him, feel better now?

OK...

Now i'm starting to understand some things here. If you came up with that same attitude as you have used tonight here, of course ppl would have told you to fuck off, it's a no brainer really.

PS : Notice that this rude bitch never got banned from anyboard and if she ever did, wouldn't whine about it on another board like a "Misunderstood" dillweed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Hummmm, quite an oximoron ain't it? If I have a daddy i'm a bitch and if I don't have one, i'm still a bitch, make up your mind dillweed.

I'll do it for him.

Your a five star bitch with or wqithout a daddy! PERIOD. :AP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by miss_silver

Hummmm, quite an oximoron ain't it? If I have a daddy i'm a bitch and if I don't have one, i'm still a bitch, make up your mind dillweed.

PS : Notice that this rude bitch never got banned from anyboard and if she ever did, wouldn't whine about it on another board like a "Misunderstood" dillweed.

At least U acknowledge that U are, indeed, a rude bitch.

Now let's work on the low IQ/typing ratio.

:ghug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicobie

At least U acknowledge that U are, indeed, a rude bitch.

Now let's work on the low IQ/typing ratio.

:ghug:

Talk about closeted denial Nic, ok, want to talk about the low IQ/typing ratio, start with your roots and work your way from there, come on, be honnest :ghug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicobie

Mizz Silver . . .

cuest q say, poop poo?

Hahahahahahahaahaa

I guess what I'm trying to say is...

You like to dish it out, let's see if you can take it.

Seems you avoided the dish I cooked you yesterday about roots, no? Come on Nic, let's dish it out :ghug: I'd love to!

:bdance: :bdance: :bdance: :bdance: :bdance: :bdance: :bdance: :bdance:

Et bien quoi? trop poulet?