For those Napsterites in the USA
 

I know I'm an opinionated person, as are most people here. I also know that everyone has opinions whether they express them or not. People should speak up and let themselves be heard without reservation, without the fear of being publicly criticized, with conviction and solidarity. Not everybody feels this way about themselves and that's why we never see them post in this forum. That's quite alright in my book because this forum is not the only outlet for opinions of political nature.

But my fear is that not everyone uses those other outlets, not everyone participates in Democracy. I'm haunted by this quote from John Perry Barlow posted by JackSpratts:
His implication is that those of us who don't share in that hallucination because we spend more time online are also the least likely to vote. And I'm sorry to say that I'm guilty, I didn't register to vote until just recently. I havn't participated in my local community like I should. There are important things going on in the world that people just don't pay attention to, and apathy can be very dangerous.

This is my plea, that every American of voting age who reads this message should register and vote. This is something you have to go out of your way to do, you have to make a consious effort to be a participant. That doesn't mean it's difficult, just that it's an extra step you have to take. Registering is the simplest part, it's a wonder people don't do it more often. But voting actually takes some thought. Do your homework and study the ballot before you fill it out because this is where your opinions matter the most.

I'd like to prove Mr. Barlow worng on just this one point, because I know that those who do post their opinions here are intelligent and passionate people, whether I agree with them or not. I'd rather have Napsterites govern my way of life than a bunch of mindless TV viewers. I'd like to know that people who actually think things through and seek the truth are at the polling places taking a part in Democracy. The discourse that takes place on this forum needs to be brought out into the open.

To those who are active members of the Napsterites Underground I ask that you also become active members of your local communities. And to those who are not active members of NU I ask that you find some place to speak out and do so. To all of us I ask that we register as a community and vote as individual citizens.

*nm*
 

:AP:

yea
 

thanx for giving me a kick in the arse......queen of procrastination here.

just finished printing out registration forms for me and hubby.....got the stamps and envelope ready.

:tu:

The problem with this Mr. Mazar is that people like you vote for Fascists who are just cynically using the people and resources of the USA to personally enrich themselves. And all they have to do to secure your vote is to wave their hideous Christianity and their faux patriotism in your face while they wink at you and utter the codewords so you will know they're really in it to keep the women and niggers down. Do us all a favor and sit your ass at home Nov. 2nd. Dipshit.

he is just telling everyone to go out and and get registered..no need to get so heavy handed..
personaly i think everyone should register to vote because people who vote more right ..always vote because its the 'right' thing to do..
people that vote left or would vote left if they bothered..but most think(and probably quite rightly..um ..leftly ;)) all parties are a bunch of crooks..and never ever do..

Alright I will, since I've already requested an absentee ballot I can do my civic duty from my own home (actually a large percentage of Colorado voters do it that way). Think about this, Heathcliff: if you vote for one candidate and I vote for the other then we cancel each other out. What do you say, are you going to vote or are you going to let me have my way with the election?

Not that it matters anyway, you won't be voting on the same ballot as me since you don't live in my area. Local and state governments are more important in my daily life and have a more direct effect on my community, and these are my primary concerns in this election year. You should be as concerned about your own community, Heathcliff. In a democracy, voters and non-voters alike get exactly the government they deserve, so stop your whining and do something about it.

:eek: Wow that word could cost you 90 days in jail here

after what you guys pulled in the congo i can see why.

- js.

HEHEHEHE that was Belgium Jack we were never in congo ..... nice try anyways. And now that you mention congo, I don't think the United States has a clean sheet when it comes to foreign policies

thinking of your west africa/indies/new amsterdam slave trade. pick your empire, lol.

- js.

What a load of crap. All the voters get is a very limited choice of people to run portions of the government; and those people invariably lie about their intentions to get elected so most voters get exactly what they don't want.

Non-voters are probably the smarter ones.

LOL again nice try ... but we ( the dutch ) are responisble for only 6% of all the slave trading that went on in those days :p


But you are right Jack we behaved horrible in Indonesia :o

Ever heard of the two-lips trade.

The whole futures market is on u're arse.

I bet u bank on it..........



hahahahahahahaah

yep, but don’t be so modest about the rest. in the 17th & 18th centuries your ancestors were right smack in the middle of the slave trade. overall it’s estimated the wic (dutch West Indische Compagnie) was responsible for the buying, selling and trafficking of over half a million humans.

- js.

Uhm .... touche nic. We are guilty of that :ND:

If that's how it is where you live then maybe you should consider moving away. Get out of the city and find a nice town where normal everyday people run for public office; find people that won't lie to you and join their community. Or if that seems too drastic then there's always the possibility of running for office yourself. Hell, I'd vote for you. That or get someone you already know and trust to do it. Broaden the field a little bit if you think the selection is too narrow.

There are options available to you, albed, besides giving up and just letting things happen. This is the cycle I'm hoping to convince you to break. If the non-voters really are smarter then they're exactly the people we need to participate. In my opinion, a smart and yet apathetic person is not a wise person. A little wisdom would go a long way if people just applied it to matters of government. You can rant all you like on our little forum here in the backwoods of the internet, but you're not doing anyone any favors by witholding your opinions in the only place where people actually ask for them.

this would be a near impossible task...
not saying theres not people that dont lie
but to find a community of them?

i remember when i didnt vote for nearly 10 years..i was quite proud of the fact...
it was my right not to vote..if i chose

i am sure there are still plenty of people like that
i am also pretty sure you would find practicaly no right wingers amongst them..

i agree mazer ,you can say all you like about your political views..but the only time your views really affect the system is when you cast your vote

Don't know what this is about, I voted in every election for 12 years and I've seen many candidates do the opposite of what they promised once in office. That's the cycle you should try to break and getting more voters out doesn't address it.

Alright, albed, I'll try.

voting anarchists ??
:AP:
had to laugh at this one...:)

ok, so here we are three and a half years after mazer's post.

whatcha think - are netizens becoming a voting force in the us? certainly obama has fired up waves of non-voters recently, many of whom may be net users, but getting people out to the polls for a singular event does not necessarily a movement make.

i see politicians taking a bit more care before trampling technology, that the days of indiscriminately creating bills that favor old line business at the expense of online enterprise are passing, and that's good, but i'm not sure it's a reflection of the political power of net users as a block as much as it recognises the now-overwhelming movement of capital to the internet.

as the net itself becomes mainstream and more and more civilians find themselves routinely utilizing it as part of their daily lives the question becomes somewhat academic, but i nevertheless think it is relevant to those who formed the original core of modern users, and i consider everyone here in that group.

where then are we as napsterites, i.e. are we nappies who may not have previously participated politically now registered, voting and locally active, or are we about the same as before all this internet stuff took off, and more generally, have long time net users gained genuine political influence & are we using it to any meaningful effect?

- js.

i think, as Americans grow up online, the net political community is getting absorbed by the country as a whole and will continue to do so. since netizens represent so many diverse political viewpoints, their impact as a voting force is diluted by their diversity.

as for myself, i was always an active voter so the net hasn't really impacted that...but i have a 17 y/o son who is far more engaged than i was at that age and is just itching to vote (tho unfortunately his 18th bday is a few days after the 2008 Prez Elections). this is a direct result of the net - not just by getting more info, but by interacting with other politically active people and stoking his interests. at his age, i could listen to the political discussion but not much more. the net allows my son to start and participate in political discussions and therefore become much more part of the process. i think this ultimately creates voters - we'll see in November.

Does anyone really think getting more idiots to the polls will make democratic countries any better. Most of the political rallying cries amount to little more than shallow commercial slogans; "vote for change", "blah blah cheaper gasoline blah blah", etc. aimed at the large segment of low IQ voters who can't or won't put forth the effort to understand complex issues. Why the fuck do we need more of them voting?


I don't think the internet has made dumb voters any smarter; it's just given empty propaganda a wider audience and provided bandwagon appeal to get even apolitical people to support a candidate just because others are and it's the cool thing to do.


And no matter how the presidential election turns out, the vast majority of voters would have preferred someone else in that position. Think about that.

so only people as smart as you should be able to vote? quite the elitist, aren't we? perhaps we should just roll back the process a couple hundred years and only allow white male landowners to vote...

more information is inherently a good thing - whether people are using it well is impossible to quantify and therefore inarguable. the internet simply expands on what radio, tv, and the printing press has done before it and takes it to the next level.

furthermore, the internet decentralizes the political process in a fundamentally profound way: a candidate now has the ability to go outside of the established party structure to organize and fund-raise at an unprecedented grass-roots level. a national constituent base , a war chest, and a campaign can be created online literally in a matter of hours. in this way, the internet has weakened the top-down nature of party politics - also a good thing, imo.

Behold, the internet.

My God! It's full of ads and albeds.

A couple centuries ago "the process" allowed black male landowners to vote too, and own slaves even. You liberals just can't hide how wrong you are about even the simplest things.

More disinformation is what the internet typically brings over traditional mass media. You'll seldom find anything original on it, just multitudes of people echoing the same things like 'Obama's a muslim'.

Wtf's "profound" about a grassroots campaign. Once again you betray your ignorance of history. But at least on the internet you have lots of company.

i'd forgotten how simple you are:

blah blah blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah blah blah you're ignorant blah blah blah etc etc etc

repeat ad nauseum.

Now that kind of reply suits you much better than your preprogrammed kneejerk cry of elitist/racist/sexist to respond to any points you can't understand or debate.


It shows that you really can think for yourself.

Boy does that hit the mark, with those weirdo Hillary supporters bawling and freaking out in front of the news cameras after that DNC decision.



The lying and cheating are just so blatant now it's hard to understand. Why have any pretense at all about rules and fairness?

Worried a different type of politician is going to be alpha dog, Albed?

Maybe you'll get 'lucky' and Bush will bomb Iran before McBush gets sat.


Ð :S:

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

i'm watching McCain's speech right now...pretty limp crowd - he reminds me of my old economics professor and just about as inspiring . looking forward to seeing him on stage with Obama, tho - the contrast should be pretty stark.

just watched Hillary's speech.... no concession, can't give up the spotlight, ever the drama queen.

Being 5 hours ahead of EST, I record Faux 'Fairly Unbalanced' News (I like to know what the (I'm always) Right is saying and I can't get any other cable news online) and watch it the next morning. I'm looking forward to seeing the speeches. I hear McBush used a lime green backdrop and that his speech turned people's stomaches too.


Ð 8)

Being cool will always trump being knowledgeable for way too many voters.






Hillary's still trying to extort the VP position from Obama. Big suprise?




Love the way that piece of shit Jimmy Carter endorsed Obama right after he locked in the nomination. Gutsy move Rambutt.

McBush spoke before dozens, Hillary before hundreds, Obama before thousands: the future is charted this night.

Obama offers hope, McBush offers despair, Hillary offers nothing at all.


Ð :S:

Wow, your grasp of the finer details of the candidates' positions is nothing short of amazing! :RE:

I know. I'm thinking of starting a blog.....


Ð :S:

kudos to the GOP media wiz that scheduled McCain to speak at 8:40, therebye guaranteeing he would be pre-empted and cut off in mid-speech at 9 pm when the SD polls closed :AP: :BL:

Like the liberal media needs an excuse. I doubt McCain has gotten one tenth the coverage of Hillary and Obama lately and even now with Hillary out he's still back page news.

McBush couldn't get on the front page if he offered to never ever smile again..

Hmm, well maybe.. :D


Ð :S:

Is it really just the liberals in the media or is it the fact that one is drab and uninteresting spouting the same old rhetoric and the other 2 are fighting it out to become either the first woman or African American President?

Actually, they're not fighting it out any more. Obama has secured the Democratic nomination. :)


Ð :S:

I tend to focus on just what a candidate intends to do as president, drab and uninteresting as it may be, but with the level of intelligence of most liberals watching the news I suppose skin color and genitalia must fascinate them.

And with the lack of intelligence of most Conservatives I suppose they like paying $10,000,000,000 a month to get their children killed, raise global pricing indexes, make the world less secure and destroy the hopes of generations to come while lining the pockets of industrialists.


Ð :S:

That would be about right
um..
:rofl4:

Last time I took any notice ,skin color and genitalia fascinates most human beings regardless of political persuasion hence the media interest . Maybe this is the big problem righties have ... once they had religion , now they are just blowin' hard in the wind ;)

I'm really not interested in your elaborate fantasies. Why don't you and multi exchange pics of genitalia, have long discussions about skin color and pretend you're both normal.

I'll sure do that, the day your God fearing, bible thumping Republicans stop hanging out in the mens room and stop snorting crystal meth off male prostitute's backsides.


Ð :S:

that's not change we can believe in:D

:BL:





Ð :S:

Well that sums up your interest in politics; Hillary-vagina, Obama-dark skin, Republicans-gay sex. The problem as I see it is with people like you voting.


My political interest is in how much money and freedom candidates intend to take away from me and my fellow citizens, whether they'll uphold the principles that support a free and fair society and in their basic character.

Obama has strong leftest ideals which means he thinks government should compel people to do what the rulers want instead of respecting what individuals want and that it should confiscate wealth and property for its own use instead of leaving it to those who fairly acquire it.

McCain is basically the opposite.

But what motivates a lot of voters is that Obama is young, cool and hip while McCain is old and stodgy. They lack the interest or intelligence to learn more and that's how they'll decide who to vote for.

no president has ever siphoned more money and freedom out of this country than George Bush and John McCain shows every indication of following in his footsteps.

10 billion dollars a month on a war we should never have started, 'Patriot' Act 1 and 2, electronic and cyber-surveillance of the American population. These are all things Bush instigated and McBush supports. These are what are being taken from you now and will continue to be taken from you should McBush reach the White House.


Appointing judges with increasingly right-wing ideals who will overturn Roe and remove a woman's choice on reproductive rights including further limiting sex education and contraception availability (funny how the Republicans mock the under-classes for having too many kids then limit their access to programs which would stop the same, all in the name of 'God' and 'morals which they don't themselves adhere to). Bailing out banks while leaving the homeowners those same banks fleeced to fend for themselves. Giving tax cuts to the rich and to corporations which already have record breaking profits. Limiting the rights and freedoms of the American people while saying it's in their best interest. You know who else limits the rights and freedoms of their people? China, Russia, Cuba and every government in the Middle-east. But are those not our 'enemies'??


Which character? The character who attempted to break from the Republican ideal and forge ahead, or the character who is swiftly moving to the right because he's worried about his 'base'? What's character in someone who changes what they do and say based on the wind of the moment? Pandering should never be confused with character, though maybe caricature.


Oh aye? I hear he's Muslim too and that he will be sworn in on the Qur'an! Really, how do you see Obama 'confiscating wealth and property'. This has to be one of the stupidest statements I've ever seen. Next you'll be calling him a Communist. If you don't support a candidate then fair enough, but why bother making up crap to slander him with? If he has actual policies which you disagree with then state them and show me how your candidate would do things better. When you make up crap you're just showing that you don't have legitimate concerns and are supporting your party, not what your party is doing or has done in the past.


Not all all. How about Obama talks of change while McBush talks of more of the same. That Obama sees that the American public doesn't want more of the same and needs someone to lead them in a new direction. You say the people lack interest, and yet they are coming out and supporting Obama in record numbers and in new and meaningful ways. You say they lack intelligence, then you spout the lies and innuendo the GOP serves you without checking if it has even the slightest basis in fact.


Without a doubt that is a problem for you and those you so adore and will follow blindly to any bitter end. people like me who study the facts and ignore the innuendo. People like me who see past the derisiveness to the issues and know those issues will effect not just me and mine, but the entire world. People like me who don't like that those who run McBush's campaign are also lobbyists for those who's interests are not my interests, who fortunes are at my expense, and who's laws are based in self-interest and not what is best for the nation.

You have no idea what interests me in politics and you'd like to label me a 'leftist crazy' without ever asking me my opinions and views. Without knowing who and what I have supported in the past and look for in a future.

Well, you're right: we are your worst nightmare and the GOP is finished in congress and in the White House. Changes are coming and I only hope YOU have the intelligence to see when it benefits you and your family and friends.

Face it, the Bush administration has moved the nation closer to a theology and made it more like those who we say are fighting against our 'way of life'.


Ð :S:

And "every indication" would be what? That your favorite blogger always calls him McBush? And I haven't heard of any straw men losing money or freedom, but me and my fellow citizens are taxed less by the federal government and have our gun rights back vs. the Clinton years. You should try to use your own life to judge your freedom and well being instead of regurgitating all the bullshit you swallow from the liberal propaganda machine.









And for "Mr.We";
I didn't start any war and you didn't start any war so how did "we" start a war? As usual you can't think for yourself and just parrot the propaganda you read and hear so let me give it to you without the bullshit filling you liberals savor: Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
The U.S. government and the temporarily courageous U.K. government among others invaded and occupied Iraq without yours or my help so put your big fat ego on a diet and accept that you aren't involved in all the events you've been taught to whine about. And especially stop thinking you know more about my money and freedom than I do you ridiculously warped egotist.



Your opinions are as devoid of content as your skull.

this coming from the wingnut talk-radio echo machine:BL:

btw, regarding the Clinton years: which part didn't you like, the peace or the prosperity?

I never listen to talk radio and only hear clips when the major media outlets repeat them; If there's even a station around here with it...

You forgot to tell how horrible your life has become again. Always whining about how terrible Bush has made things but not able to tell us how miserable your existence is because of him.


Too traumatized I suppose.

Aww, lashing out with an insulting tongue because you have no issues to get behind with your cadidate? No issues to nay say on ours? Do you even follow the issues or just read the crap through your mailbox and feel you're informed?

Last time I read it the Constitution said 'we' the people, but I hardly expect you to remember what your party says is 'just a goddamned piece of paper'. What my government does 'we' all do. My government started a lame ass bullshit filled war in Iraq to line the pockets of assholes like Cheney and his buddies. It's costing you in ways you can't figure and you can't see it. Better yet, they have you thinking it's a brillaint idea.

What has Bush & Co done for you? Given you back your gun rights? Which did you lose to get back? And taxed you less? Unless you're in the upper 5% of the wealthiest people in the nation, or own a major corporation, you can kiss that notion in the ass because it's not looking you in the face. Made the country more secure? Wrong again. Provided you with affordable healthcare? Hope you never get a major illness.

You say I spout 'opinion' but you spout retoric. I weigh the issues and make an informed decision on who I support while you support whomever is willing to give you a reacharound. McBush would be a puppet of the GOP if he had the slightest chance of getting into the White House. Luckily enough, we're done with the Greedy Old Pals.

Next time you're at a cross burning make sure to ask Hannity what Bush has done for you and catch up on the great things McCain has planned. I'm sure he can tell you. Mind you, watch your wallet when he pats you on the ass, because he's a diehard.

Ð :S:

and btw, how come the wingnuts never want to actually pay for the endless war they crave?

Your government now? I tend to let your stupidity slide because you can't help it but calling the U.S. government "yours" is just blatant lying. You don't live under its jurisdiction, pay taxes to it or even vote for its officials so give the lying a rest and stick to just being stupid.

With such superior intellect you really can hardly be surprised at people in other places of the world who have an interest in these US presidential races and US policies in general, still with all this brilliance you can't seem to work out how an US citizen who was born there can still consider themselves one of your fellow countrymen ,just because they are not living there. Maybe you should watch calling people stupid then making brainless remarks.

Maybe he doesn't vote there any more, (you of course seem to know this for sure) but that shouldn't stop him from having some interest in the political situation and what he wrote is a 98.5% more accurate assessment of the situation than the utter garbage I see you repeatedly come out with. You are like an unhappy sports fan who's team is at the bottom of the ladder so you must call the supporter of every other team names.. grow the fuck up.