Interesting stuff.

so anyway back to the empire thing

Mazer, I dont know if you noticed my postings on the PNAC (project for the new american century) but thier motto is Pax Americana. Pax Romana ring any bells?

Of course. But if Pax Americana is the neocons' actual goal then they're failing miserably. America is more divided than ever, and the only reason we don't break out into civil war is that we still remember what it cost us last time. Despite their motto, PNAC mostly concerns itself with foreign policy. They may think they have a plan for uniting the world under American leadership, but it doesn't look like they have a plan for uniting America.

Domestic peace is desirable, wouldn't you agree floyd?

The problem is there is a lack of consensus on many key issues, and nobody's willing to compromise. Perhpas Nietzsche was correct when he wrote, "Extreme positions are not succeeded by moderate ones but by extreme positions of the opposite kind." If so then PNAC doesn't have the solution to our nation's current identity crisis.

If none of us can agree what shape the world is in then how are we supposed to make peace with it? If America doesn't have the ability to make peace with the rest of the world, then who does? Is it better that we fade away under the onslaught of foreign powers in order to avoid the 'evils' of remaking the world in our own image? Are we so afraid of being labeled fascists that we'll avoid any chance to preserve our way of life?

Sometimes I think our society want's to die.

that sounds a bit too final its never going just die..why can't it start on a new direction with it's foriegn policies.Start shutting down the scumbags that are profiteering in weapons and oil. An attempt at some peacful resolution to the new nuclear arms race
that means not if certain countries get 'nukes' but when..

some integrity and co-operation is needed before things get out of hand :bcow:

I agree. There is no peace without cooperation. But without a common set of goals, the people of this nation will never take it in the new direction it needs to go.

I've said before that the United States is in its adolescent years. Perhaps empire is the adult stage of a nation like ours. We don't necessarily need a monarch to qualify us as an empire, but we do need to be united. We wouldn't be able to send mixed messages to the rest of the world like we're doing now. We would need to give up the twin hyprcrisies, political correctness and multiculturalism, and become one nation with one people. A lot of people don't want that.

I don't think there's much chance of America becoming an empire any time soon. There's too much at stake to challenge the status quo. And yet we can't preserve the status quo either. The world is changing with or without our influence. Whether we choose to keep our republic or evolve it into an empire, we'd better figure out how to agree on who we are and what we want.

you may find this enlightening multi.

The real reason the West is in danger of extinction. (not you Aussies though....oy! oy! oy!)

It's the Demography, Stupid

"What do you leave behind?"


goo ?
goons ?
goo tubes ???
:dunno:

ah.. it would be a beautiful place just no one to appreciate it