The Illegal Immigration thing
 

I dont mind mexican people. I also understand why most want to be here. But there are always some agitators like the Aztlan movement, they want to take over the SW U.S.

When I see the people protesting for rights and waving a Mexican flag it is kind of Oxy-moronic eh? If your here and want to have the rights of a US citizen then why are they flying the flag of the country they just left?

The border can be patroled and or closed very easily if they wanted it to be. The Minuteman Project prooved that. Yet our govt does nothing to stop it, and the people that try to stop it are called vigilantes by our President. WTF?

What makes you think the government wants to stop the border crossings?

GENIUS.






It's cheap labor for the businesspeople who contribute the money that gets both Republicans and Democrats elected.

Now that elections are coming you see some pretensions of stopping illegal immigration but it's practically guaranteed to be worthless gestures.

I've thought before of brushing up on my spanish and dying my hair black to get one of those jobs without all the fucking taxes and deductions for everyone and everything. It's become a major pain for employees as well as employers; all the fucking lawyers and bureaucrats involved in everything.

Those peeps have read too much Gary Jennings IMO

Aztlan is as mythical as Atlantis or the island of Mû. We've heard about them but never found them. According to their Aztec legend, before Spain invaded, it was said that the Aztec population came from the Island? of Aztlan but left to find new territory. It was said that they would know where to stop when they would see an eagle perched on a cactus holding in it's claw a serpent, Tenochtitlan (Mexico City). They then settled on the island and started to flurish as a civilisation by conquerring neighboring tribes. Deal was, you will be protected and be part of the Aztec nation as long as you pay a yearly tribute to them, fail to comply, it's off to the slave market. No wonder Cortez had little trouble conquerring them, he promised the surrounding tribes freedom if they helped him and his conquistador to subdo the hated Aztecs.

Those students are deluding themselves if they think they can lay claim on Aztlan, First, it would need to be found and second, I'm sure that the Comanche, Hopi, Apache, Shoshone would beg to differ that it's not Aztec/Mexican land and never was.

I think Tom Friedman said it best - We need a very tall wall with a very wide gate.

it's pretty amazing, actually - the birth of a political movement virtually overnight. from the NYT:
the GOP was hoping to create a wedge issue with immigration...instead they succeeded in mobilizing and unifying millions of voters against them.

obviously the illegals are a critical part of the economy - i can see that in my own neighborhood. i think they should apply the Cuba rule - seal the borders, but if you're already here or can make it in, you can stay.

Just because you haven't noticed it before doesn't mean it's just been born knife.


Note how they're so open about their intentions to fraudulently vote. I guess the unwillingness of the government to enforce immigration law has bred complete contempt for any law. What wonderful citizens they'll make.

Illegals can vote?

they'll make great citizens - just like the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese and every other immigrant group before them. their kids will assimilate and help lead the next generation, like every group before them. and the arguments raised against them will prove to be unfounded, as has been the case with every immigrant group before them.

the first US soldier to be killed in Iraq was a Mexican citizen, brought into the country by illegal immigrant parents. U.S. Marine Jose Angel Garibay didn't have the right to vote but the government had no problem sending him off to die in Iraq for no apparent reason. ironic, huh?

edit: my mistake - Jose was the first Orange County CA soldier killed. another Jose was the first soldier killed in Iraq:
http://www.news-journalonline.com/

Anyone can vote if they have the right counterfeited documents. All the illegal immigrants have created a booming counterfeiting industry that terrorists have tapped into to help them accomplish their murders.


As usual, seditious factions of the government have prevented a solution.

And? He volunteered. He wasn't illegal, he just wasn't a citizen as of yet. It's not out of the ordinary.

apart from 911 what murders ?

the first WTC bombing perhaps..
Washington sniper ?

Mayhaps it's time for a little quid pro quo?

Oh no, theknife's "great citizens" are being rounded up and deported!

1,187 illegal immigrant workers and 7 of their exploiters arrested.

They love the U.S. so much they break its laws as they please and won't even pay its taxes. Great citizens alright.

The 7 Houston-based IFCO Systems North America Inc. supervisors could face a maximum 10-year prison sentence and a fine of up to $250,000 for each alien for conspiring to transport and harbor illegal aliens for commercial and financial gain.
Robert Belvin, 43, Clifton Park, N.Y.
Abelino "Lino" Chicas, 40, Houston
James Rice, 36, Houston
William "Billy" Hoskins, 29, Cincinnati
Michael Ames, 44, Shrewsbury, Mass
Dario Salzano, 36, Amsterdam, N.Y.
Scott Dodge, 43, of Amsterdam

I wonder if the illegal immigrant community will rally to support their benefactors with generous contributions to a defense fund?

Not likely. They're in the U.S. to take, not to give.

The United States of America was founded by immigrants. That being the case, one could argue that the foundation of the USA is immigration. At the very least, immigration is a profoundly important part of our society.

The problem is not with the people that are coming to america, the problem is with a system that has broken down to the point that it has failed them. I do not see the solutions to America's immigration woe's in attacking the immigrants. I believe the solution is in stricter and stronger laws against the people that profit from the opression of immigrants.

Slumlords that 'turn a blind eye' to 15 and 20 people sharing a single bedroom living space need to be held accountable. Companies that employ immigrant labor for unreported cash wages need to be held accounatble. 'People smuggling' orginazations that dump unprepared and ill informed people on american shores need to be held accountable.

More than any of the above, the United States Department of Immigration and Naturalization needs to be held accountable for a system that has convoluted itself so much that legal immigration is an impossibility for some despite years or even decades of vigilante attempts.

The borders are not the problem. What happens to millions of immigrants once they cross the border is the problem. If these willing spirits were embraced rather than greeted with hostility and bureaucracy, there would be far fewer people working for sub standard wages only to send the money out of the country to support a family they can not bring here.

Peace out,
dumwaldo

What about the illegal immigrants who use faked-up documents to register to vote, or who recieve food stamps and welfare? What about illegal immigrants who break laws then flee to Mexico for asylum? Are these people not also part of the problem?

The system isn't "broken" like all the worthless politicians say, the government is. It won't enforce its own laws because of its corruption.

The illegals wouldn't come to the U.S. if it weren't for employers eager to hire them for substandard wages and unsafe working conditions that the government agencies turn a blind eye to. Or for the free(to them) health care, education, welfare benefits, and automatic citizenship to U.S. born children.


My libertarian views are that anyone should be free to go where they want and do what they want within reason, but taking from others should be forbidden.

A century ago immigrants paid their own way and worked their way up the income ladder and made the country better but now illegal immigrants take, with the help of the corrupt government, many things that american citizens have paid for; medical care, education, housing, food, the justice system, etc.

They're a burden that the U.S. would be better without.

Or they are a blessing that the United States would not have existed without.

The examples offered are an exageration of a very minute minority. I am confident in saying there are more american born people defrauding public agencies than there are illegal aliens.

A century ago imigrants came to this country and found citizenship in a matter of days. Currently a potential citizen has a minimum wait time of at least 7 years. A century ago imigrants came to america with nothing but a desire to be american and they were granted citizenship. Currently an individual needs a purpose greater than personal enrichment as well as someone who will offer 'sponsorship'.

Please do not take this as any type of personal attack or insult but comparing immigration of a century ago with the current disgracefull state of immigration is simply ignorant.

I still maintain the immigrants are not the problem, the hostility displayed by american people and politicians is the problem. Maybe we should just give the reins back to the native americans and they can kick us all out of THEIR country.

I can't help but notice you didn't use the word "illegal" once in your screed, wonder why that is?

No one is "attacking immigrants", but people are rightfully attacking illegal lawbreakers that flaunt their ability to circumvent our borders.

So lets break it down since you seem to be confused:

immigrant = good

illegal immigrant = bad

Also your "solution" is a joke.

"Hey Juan we can't hop the border, the man that will hire us will get in trouble!"

Yeah, that will surely solve the illegal immigration problem! :RE: American laws haven't stopped them yet, why do you think cracking down on Americans will somehow stop Mexicans from coming here illegally?

So you're comparing the immigration of a century ago with the current to prove you're ignorant? That makes sense.



I think your hippie history class has misinformed you. Native americans never built a country and they were fighting, stealing, enslaving and killing each other long before europeans came over to join the fray.

illegal immigrants are an essential component of the economy and deporting 12 million people is physically and politically impossible. call it a guest worker program or amnesty or whatever - might as well do it and get it over with.

The mention of the seven year wait period and sponsorship reminds me very much of the endentured servitude most Americans' ancestors endured to earn their place in this land. It used to be that wealthy land owners would 'invest' in human capital by paying immigrants' way to the colonies and enslaving them for seven years before rewarding them with a little land and a little money. Endentured servants did this willingly. The result was a nation of staunch individualists who were able to liberate themselves from the rule of England despite their economic depression, their occupation by British troops, and their under supplied armies. They won because the United States is not just a nation of immigrants, it's a nation of the best and brighest immigrants the world had to offer; the product of a cultural eugenics movement, though nobody really understood that at the time it was going on.

I ask this question: if a seven year sponsorship for resident aliens allowed the thirteen American colonies to defeat and eventually replace Britain as the world's superpower, wouldn't it be wise to follow the same practices today?

Is this just a straw man or has someone actually advocated the deportation of 12 million illegal immigrants?

It sounds just as phony as the claim that it's somehow impossible to deport 12 million criminals. I'm not sure how many are put into prison each year but it must be in the millions so people saying removing 12 million is impossible without any explanation why just reeks of bullshit.


Anyway if the U.S. government just starts imprisoning the criminals who employ illegal immigrants then the illegals would start packing and leaving on their own.


The "essential component of the economy" for theknife is probably his weed supply. :BL:

So it would be OK for the goverment to come along and take away your home and property because your family fights inside the house?

Double standards are great to justify antisocial behaviour but it doesn't change the fact that it is hypocritical.

Just one question for you guys. How many illegal immigrants have you known in your life?

I have tyo ask because you people talk like they are a commodity. These are PEOPLE, with hopes and dreams the same as us. These are PEOPLE that are often caught up in a system that does not want to grant them citizenship.

BTW
Indentured servitude (see also slavery) ended a LONG time ago. As it should have.

I wasn't advocating voluntary slavery, I was illustrating its positive effect on the gene pool. But I don't see anything wrong with making immigrants work to earn the right to become Americans. It needs to be proved on a case-by-case basis whether immigrants belong here. A lot of them do deserve the chance to make it here, but you know what, a lot of them don't. Hopes and dreams alone are not enough to qualify any immigrant for citizenship.

Imagine that, not wanting to reward PEOPLE that break our laws! What is this country coming to!??!?!

I've known a number of criminals and of course they are P-E-O-P-L-E trying to support themselves and make a better life through car theft, burglery, drug dealing, etc. but they get caught up in a system that does not want to grant them the freedom to break the laws our society is based on.

And that's the way it should be.

Are you really that stupid or are you just being obstinant and sarcastic?

bingo :tu:

I don't think dumwaldo's even smart enough to recognize a stupid person.


I'm smart enough to realize there are some 12 million criminals who've infiltrated the U.S.; exploiting its freedom, breaking its laws, subverting its institutions and fragmenting its society, and I don't think that's beneficial in any way.


Arguments like; 'they are people with hopes and dreams' and 'bingo' really do show stupidity though.

I think we're all capable of making better arguments than these, guys.

It's like listening to eight-year-olds. When I was in second grade the best of the political rhetoric in my class went something like this: my opponents would say, "Bush is mush," and I'd rebutt, "Oh yeah, well Dukakis is kah-kah." I'd like to think that since the '88 elections the political discussions I've involved myself in have been more mature, but sadly I find myself here in the NU Political Asylum witnessing the same old pissing contest.

...and contributing nothing except the fictionalized versions of history you've become notorious for.

typical rantings of a paranoid xenophobe :BL:


I believe 'they are people with hopes and dreams' was a clearly a statement and not an argument in itself.
so if you would care to make some sense, please do.

I think Teddy Roosevelt said it best "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation of all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities."

Its our corporate governments fault for allowing this to happen. The businesses that closed yesterday due to labor shortages should be prosecuted.

What really pisses me off is having to take my shoes off in the airport when millions of people every year just walk across the border. Homeland Security is a bad fucking joke.

Im not mad at the illegals for coming here, Im mad at our goverment for letting it happen.

At least those illegals know how to organize and march, something we dont know how to do anymore because we are so polarized.

WTF does marching around do? If you want the government to do something you have to put up money and votes. Marching is just something for the media to videotape and show on TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Satyagraha

in 1930 it was a peacful protest march that contributed to the independance of India

I`ve hatched a simple but effective security plan





















:CG:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ROTFLMAO :D :D :D

Good one!

Not enough illegal immigrants to swing California election...yet.
http://www.townhall.com/blogs/c-log/...03/199835.html

Democratic candidate Francine Busby's speech to a latino group included the not so subtle hint: "You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help." In an blatant attempt to gain herself fraudulent votes from illegal immigrants that was secretly recorded.


There's corruption and then there's treason. No matter how bad the Republicans become the Democrats always seem to one-up them.

I think I have it now.
Some people see things as right or left.
Others see things as just right or wrong.
I may be wrong,'cause I'm not right.
Or is it,I'm right,'cause I'm not wrong.
Which ever,two wrongs don't make a right.
My Mum told me that when I was little.
But was she wrong?
I don't think so.
She was right.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

- Ronald Reagan

Your quoting Ronald Reagan.
Was he right or not?
I think he was right ,but wrong about a lot of things.
Anybody who liked "That bloody women"
Can't have been right in the head.
That makes me left,but not always right.
I am wrong sometimes as well.

I think this is from 2004.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2115-6766r.htm



TemporyLink

Meanwhile in San Marcos two illegal immigrants were taken into custody recently after crashing their car into an ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) patrol vehicle. Fortunately no injuries this time.

Here in Canada, some have come up with the idea that Canada doesn't belong to Canadians, it belongs to the world. Not a pretty thought.

Why do you think we want independence Napho ;) Anywho, I'm pretty sure that Alberta will do it before us... :bdance: :bdance: :bdance:

The U.S. calls dibs on the oily part.

True

As a American when visiting Quebec I found that only by speaking spanish and pretending not to understand english, was I treated 1/2 way ok.

My mind is made up.

i had the same experience in San Diego :BL:

hi Nic :W:

I don't doubt that a bit.

In the year 1850:
California became a state.
The State had no electricity.
The State had no money.
Almost everyone spoke Spanish.
There were gun-fights in the streets.

So basically, it was just like California today except the women had real breasts and men didn't hold hands.

Aawww Nic

Brush up on quebec history 101 and you will know why you were treated better speaking spanish... if you would have said clearly that you were american, maybe this wouldn't have happened unless you fell on an asshole, happens in every country.

You should have seen my friend Veronique asking for butter in paris for her loaf of bread, the waiter was unreal, i'd like to recall that moment as an episode of the twilight zone. They have some really weird food shit standards over there.

You do why,don't you?

Shall I give you a glue?

Now there's an offer you can't refuse.

She offered her honour,
He honoured her offer,
All night long he was honour and offer.

:EA:

True but then again...

After leaving Paris, I found that most frenchmens would say, ahh, there is Paris and there is also France ;) Parisians are mostly very obnoxious Mal, I understood that when we headed down to Bordeaux.

You missed the clue I give you.
It was the"butter in paris"bit I was thinking of.

Yeah,you know how I feel about the French.So I won't go on about them.I workied there for a while a fair few years back.
I hope you had a nice time anyway.I'm sure there are some nice French people somewhere,it's just I never met them.

Hahahahahaahhahaa

So true TK.

I wish it wasn't.

Bit in the ass
 

Bush supports amnesty for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060101314.html

And gets bit in the wallet by donors.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...0131-2781r.htm

amnesty is a good thing. i stand with the President on this one.:scared:

Like a good little bushbot of course, but the president himself opposes you -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2876096.shtml
Left hanging high and dry by Bush already. That didn't take long did it?