while you were sleeping
the House voted today to make the Patriot Act permanent, 257-171, moving the bill on to the Senate. it includes things like this:
Quote:
|
I was awake.
Hope that stuff doesn't make your terrorist buddies feel unwelcome. |
Quote:
quiet knife... we're trying to sleep everyodys got something to hide except for me and my monkey :MO: |
some days, things don't look so bleak in this country....like yesterday, for instance:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
HAHAHAHA and here i was thinking I was living in a banana republic. :bdance: :bdance:
|
You know, I may support the president on most things, but I'm gald the Patriot Act fell through. Not sure how I feel about the news that the president illegally spied on people, but if that report is what it took to prevent the act from passing then it has served its purpose, even if it turns out to be untrue.
|
one nation, under surveillance
via Kos:
Quote:
|
The Senate baulked.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
The NSA has been conducting limited clandestine surveillance on Americans for many more years than Bush has been President. Given certain conditions of National Security, (even without the Patriot Act) such surveillance is lawful without warrant. Quote:
So, approximately 36 incidents in a little over four years? The RIAA subpoena factory has Bush beat by a landslide victory in the abuse department. Obviously, the President is being questioned on these actions and is therefore being held accountable for them. I'm not advocating limitless unquestioned power to spy on people, or power to conduct search and seizure without probable cause. I want the U.S. government to take action in protecting it's citizens against acts of terrorism. However, there must always be accountability. There is a marked difference between using authority responsibly and abuse of authority. |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Yep; a small detail. I got a laugh at one critic complaining about the unauthorized eavesdropping and then saying how easy it was to get warrants. So then what's the difference?
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Gee, with all the fanfare it seems to me that the President IS being overseen and IS being held accountable for his actions.
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
If that's not abuse by the government than I'm not a whining liberal. |
Quote:
:PE: |
President Clinton had a much broader surveillance program on U.S. citizens, called "Echelon". "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Kroft did a report on it in February 2000.
Of course, Clinton did not have the events of 09/11 to use as National Security justification for the eavesdropping. As I previously stated, NSA has been spying on Americans for a much greater period of time than President Bush's term. Quote:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...8/221452.shtml http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...9/114807.shtml LOL, there is an actual product here called "Bush's Baked Beans", although I have no idea if it is actually related to the President's family. The actual product label is quite different - a lot more mundane. |
by all accounts, there is a mechanism in place, under the FISA, to allow the government to eavesdrop on any US citizen, at a moment's notice, without a warrant. the stipulation is that the government is required to, within a set time period, go back to a judge and justify the wiretap or the results get thrown out. as albed points out above, wiretaps are approved 99.999% of the time. so what is the President's problem with obeying the law and getting the warrant, when he was almost certain to be able to do so?
Quote:
Quote:
|
The President has Constitutional authority to order surveillance without warrant given certain conditions of national security. This authority is above the 1978 FISA.
Quote:
Therefore, the surveillance ordered by the President is lawful - as long as it was for reasons of National security. It’s a broad power with potential for abuse. It’s scary, but it's that way for a very good reason: "to defend the national security of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". The President is upset about the leak because it compromises an ongoing investigation into terrorism operatives in the U.S.. Now that the terrorist groups have been made aware that they may be being monitored, they can use simple means to “work around” the surveillance. TG posted an interesting link on the counter-measures subject a while back: http://www.crypto.com/papers/wiretapping/ The leak places U.S. citizens in increased danger as terrorists could use counter-measures against surveillance and therefore escape detection. |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:40 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© www.p2p-zone.com - Napsterites - 2000 - 2024 (Contact grm1@iinet.net.au for all admin enquiries)